Scratch and Kit Built Aircraft Discuss and share your scratch built or kit built aircraft as well as building techniques, methods, mediums and resources.

Airfoil design programmes

Old 02-19-2009, 07:19 AM
  #1  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Cool Airfoil design programmes

It was suggested to me when building my Westland Lysander that I check the airfoil shape on one of these programmes.
I was told "Compufoil 3D".
I was wondering what programmes other people "have" or "know of "
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 02-19-2009, 08:44 AM
  #2  
proffcharlie
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lafayette, LA (Heart of Cajun Country)
Posts: 204
Default

Go to NASA's web site and download their airfoil simulator program. I think it is called Foil Sim. With this program you can load the profile coordinates and then run a simulated wind tunnel to see the performance of the wing at different speeds and angles of attack.

Charlie
proffcharlie is offline  
Old 02-19-2009, 01:51 PM
  #3  
starcad
Model Designer
 
starcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson, Az
Posts: 584
Default

There is also Profili and Malcolm over in Australia has one just can't think of the name. What airfoil are you using? Just do a web search and you will find a ton of information on airfoils.
starcad is offline  
Old 02-19-2009, 03:50 PM
  #4  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Lightbulb Compufoil 3D

I haven't got a specific airfoil at the moment. I was told it might be a good idea to do before going to deep into the build.
My knowledge into airfoil design is limited and plotting one out would be a huge task.
It took me a good week to have a look at this program and have almost made my mind up to buy it.
I just went for a search on the wattflyer website and couldn't find anything about the subject. One reason why I decided to submit this thread as other wishful builder's like myself may like to know this kind of information is out there and don't need to spend huge amount's of money just to get their dream's crushed in the end.
Anyway Soar soft have the software. I haven't gone "Surfin' the Net" on the subject. just thought it might be an idea to put on wattflyer!
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 02-19-2009, 07:18 PM
  #5  
slipstick
Super Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: N.Staffs, UK
Posts: 2,350
Default

Profili is a lot cheaper (basically free unless you need the advanced features) and at least as good IMO . http://www.profili2.com/eng/default.htm

BTW if you ever want to know what airfoil was used on a full-size plane http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html can often help. The Lysander apparently had a modified RAF34 airfoil (and RAF34 is in the Profili database).

Steve
slipstick is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 10:52 AM
  #6  
salat
warming up
 
salat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Siberia
Posts: 131
Default

search for "xfoil"

Kostya
salat is offline  
Old 02-20-2009, 12:46 PM
  #7  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Thumbs up

I had a look at the programmes you have written.
I have to wait until the start of the next month before I can download them to have a closer look. I started to download "Profili" but got a message from the internet company telling me that I'm out of data time and everything has slowed down.
Really interested in the "Isiplot" that's on the "Profili" website.
I've already tried viewing DWF.exe on my laptop with no sucess.
I've looked at converting programmes that were over $200 AUD which is slightly out of my budget and Autodesk Autocad is way over budget.
I will try to get a look at "Xfoil" . I have "Vista" on this laptop and looking at the "requirements" I can't see "Vista" mentioned.
I have a desktop with "XP" but I have lent it to my mother and she would be happy if I took over that computer.
I can even use "FMS" on the lap because it miss dll.file .
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 02-21-2009, 01:33 PM
  #8  
richg99
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 135
Default

re FMS....You can load the missing .dll file . Do a search and you will find many sources of free downloads.

I can run FMS on my Vista computers, but cannot get it to run using my r/c transmitter...but it runs with keyboard input. But ,that may have something to do with my video card..or so I have read.
regards, Rich
richg99 is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 12:01 PM
  #9  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

I took some time out today to have a quick look for more software.
I found winfoil and airfoil which use Xfoil as base programmes.
I can't quite remember how much they exactly but I think that they were both around $50.
I did fine a nise looking one which could design boat's as well as aircraft but close to $3000 I think it was a little too much for me.
There were a few other that I found but they priced around $600 so I didn't take too much notice of them.
Thank's richg99. I did a search and found a file but my anti-virus block the FMS from working. FMS load's up but I left in an aqua-field. I'll have to keep working on that one.
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 02-22-2009, 01:18 PM
  #10  
starcad
Model Designer
 
starcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tucson, Az
Posts: 584
Default

Here is a list made from someone else. I have this a s a sticky on my site:
http://k3studio.sourceforge.net/
http://www.kpovmodeler.org/
http://www.povray.org/ http://megapov.inetart.net/
http://www.k-3d.org/
http://www.wings3d.com/
http://kludge3d.sourceforge.net/
http://www.linux.org/apps/all/Graphics/CAD/CAM.html
http://www.ribbonsoft.com/
http://www.bartels.de/bae/bae_en.htm
http://www.bocad.com/home/en/index.htm
http://www.cycas.de/
http://diffractive.optics.free.fr/
http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/
http://www.soffernet.com/jaime/fandango/
http://askoh.com/freecad/
http://www.cadcam.co.at/freiter/gCAD3D_en.htm
http://www.graphiteone-cad.com/en/index.htm
http://lignumcad.sourceforge.net/doc/en/HTML/index.html
http://www.nocrew.org/software/ocadis/?part=about

There are a ton more but this is a start
starcad is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 05:39 AM
  #11  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

Well, I bought some of the module's for compufoil3D and download Profili2 as freeware.I'm thinking of getting it registered as well.
I couldn't get a good enough look at Profilli because it's not registered.
Profili2 has a bigger airfoil library, lift movies and has plan's of plane to boot but I think that compufoil3D looks easier to use.
I had a look at some of those link's, Starcad. I've been a little busy lately
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 08:56 AM
  #12  
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Default

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...t_airfoils.htm

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...irfoils/03.htm

http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads.html


About Airfoils for Flying Model Aircraft




Airfoils come in several flavors. The most commonly used airfoils for flying model aircraft are:
  • Symmetrical
  • Semi-Symmetrical
  • Flat Bottom
  • Modified Flat Bottom
  • Under-cambered
  • Reflexed
Each family encompasses a large selection of airfoils but we use very few of them due to habit or not having a clue about how to properly select a real airfoil. By "real" I mean an airfoil that has been designed and tested by the aerospace industry.
++++Data on real airfoils won't apply in our realm anyway. +++++The airfoils are tested at larger sizes than the average model and things change as size changes.
However, the airfoils should scale down comparatively.
For example, if one airfoil is tested to stall sooner than another airfoil, then the stall speeds may be much different when scaled down but both airfoils should still stall in the same order. That may not always be true, but it's a good rule of thumb.
If you are purpose-building something competitive that requires the best possible airfoil for the application then I can't help you. However, if you enroll at a school of Aerospace then you can probably get help there.
Secrets that shouldn't be secret

Almost nobody who designs model airplanes would have a clue how to pick an airfoil for their design based on real airfoil data. We learn from experience knowing that the subtleties between one airfoil and another close to the same shape will make a very small difference one that would only be noticed by an expert pilot. These behaviors are not different enough to cause any problems in your design unless you do something like change a round leading edge to one that is razor sharp.
If a designer is agonizing over whether to use a 14% or 16% symmetrical NACA section he can choose either and the plane will still fly well. The difference may be that the 14% version flies and lands a little faster, but is smoother whereas the 16% version may perform aerobatics in a slightly smaller volume.
The difference won't be something like one airfoil is "right" and the other makes your plane loop back into the ground on take-off. Again, I'm comparing airfoils that are basically the same shape within a family. Note that there will be a huge difference between any under-cambered vs. any symmetrical airfoil.
If you want to design unique planes that fly for fun, then stay in the realm of reason and make your airfoil close to the shape of airfoils used by other planes of roughly the same type. +++++++Don't get hung up about it.++++++++ If you can't decide then copy an airfoil in use on a model and scale it to the right size for your model.
I almost never use a real airfoil in my designs. I have airfoils that I've used on previous models so I know how they behave. For a new design I adjust the airfoil to behave more how I want it to on the new model. For example, I may thicken it to slow the model or make the leading edge radius smaller to allow sharper stall maneuvers.
If I need an airfoil of a type I have never used before then I pull out my airfoil books and look at drawings. The data is meaningless to me. I imagine the airfoil in the application and fly it in my mind. Watch the videos in my gallery and you'll see that it works well and I'm not seeing sport designs that fly better than mine.

Last edited by CHELLIE; 03-02-2009 at 09:32 AM.
CHELLIE is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 09:29 AM
  #13  
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Default

Hi Huffy You will love the Airfield Models site, Lots and Lots of great Information there, That will help you with any Build, Take care, Chellie
CHELLIE is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 09:30 AM
  #14  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

That's a good bit of reading ,Chellie.
I think that if it didn't take a mathematician or a degree in aerodynamics it would be free.
If it work's large scale, it should be the same with the small scale just less of it in the scale.
Anyway if you look at some competition model sailplane/pylon racer's website's they have to use certain airfoil's and write alot about the different type's.
This website I found (www.gliders.dk ) have a section on different airfoil's.
The "thing" is that you can repair, modify or start from scratch.
You don't need to write anything down just spend some time on the computer and when you are happy with what you have just press the print button and out comes the construction sheet ,way you go!
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 09:40 AM
  #15  
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Default

Good luck to you on your build, Chellie
CHELLIE is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 09:59 AM
  #16  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

Hello ,Chellie. Not building at the moment . Just had a suggestion on my Lysander build. While I was sitting around thought I'd go looking but couldn't find much information on Wattflyer about the subject so I thought I'd start a thread.
I just got my Parkzone Radian repaired today .I got out for some flying time. I got up twice before it started to rain, damn!
I just had to explain how a wing work's to my mother, damn!
Damn,damn,damn
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 10:34 AM
  #17  
StephenW
Member
 
StephenW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Camden NSW Australia
Posts: 491
Default

I personally use a program called Profile its simple and easy to operate . foilsare many and varied for instants you want something thats quick carries a load and works for both power or glider then RG15 is the foil of choice, then again if you want a lifty section with good load carrying ability then an E205 is the way to go now if you want a go fast only section then an MG06 would be your choice . For my big PSS Bearcat I'm running an MH32 section which will carry a good load and is fairly quick . Foil choice is gained very much by exprience . A lot can be learned about a foil when there is no fan pushing air over it you learn what will and what wont work in certain environments.
SteveW
StephenW is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 10:42 AM
  #18  
StephenW
Member
 
StephenW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Camden NSW Australia
Posts: 491
Default

Huffy
easy high pressure system under the wing ,low pressure system on the top of the wing high pressure pushes up against low pressure = Lift
or slower thicker air under the wing has a more power of upward force against the thinner air rushing over the top camber ummm on second thoughts its magic
SteveW
StephenW is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 10:43 AM
  #19  
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Default

Originally Posted by Huffy01 View Post
Hello ,Chellie. Not building at the moment . Just had a suggestion on my Lysander build. While I was sitting around thought I'd go looking but couldn't find much information on Wattflyer about the subject so I thought I'd start a thread.
I just got my Parkzone Radian repaired today .I got out for some flying time. I got up twice before it started to rain, damn!
I just had to explain how a wing work's to my mother, damn!
Damn,damn,damn
Thats Funny Most Women do not understand how a plane flies,
Just a few do, That must have been Flustrating Take care, Chellie
CHELLIE is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 10:46 AM
  #20  
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Default

Hi Steve
CHELLIE is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 10:54 AM
  #21  
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Default

Huffy, your going to love the Airfoil on my Giant foam bi plane, 80" W/S, they are FLAT to make a flat wing work right, you have to give the motor a lot of down thrust to load the wing, to prevent hunting, after that, they fly great, Take care, Chellie



CHELLIE is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 10:58 AM
  #22  
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Default

My 49" scratch built Katana, with a flat 9MM wing gave me the encouragement to go bigger Take care, Chellie

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTbir0Uc6Q8[/media]
CHELLIE is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 11:28 AM
  #23  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

I've seen both and a few of you video's on youtube!
My future plans have something to do with foam. Today I got some expanding rigid foam from a molding and casting shop.
I'm going to try to make a mold and pour this stuff in and see if I can make a plane.
I reckon it's a big job. I haven't got a lot of money so it's going slow.
I've been using the compufoil3D to make so wing design's and I'm working out how to use it.
Hopefully later this week ,I'll get the mod's module and NACA generator so I have some more option's.
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 03-02-2009, 11:54 AM
  #24  
Huffy01
Huffy01
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default

G'day StephenW good to see an aussie around here.I've got most of those airfoil's except for the MG06 airfoil which isn't loading up.
Huffy01 is offline  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:44 AM
  #25  
inedesca
Vendor!!
 
inedesca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27
Default and talking about flat wings

Should we use the same idea of leading and trailing flaps like the f-104 in our flat depron wings, that is: include these flaps built in to increase lift efficiency.
Real fighters deploy these flaps at low speeds to increase lift so if we put these in our wings as fixed, not deployable woudl this help?
thank you for your ideas
inedesca is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.13418 seconds with 9 queries