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Hangar 9 F22 Raptor Glow-To-Electric Conversion

Old 10-14-2015, 11:35 AM
  #26  
guapoman2000
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Guys,

I just confirmed that Horizon Hobby (Hangar9) indeed designed this model (Cut-Outs for Servos) were intended using the JR Sport ST47 servos!

The user manual shows using them for all applications!

The ones I have are much updated.

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Old 10-14-2015, 07:50 PM
  #27  
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Default Scott Todd's Conversion back in Feb. 2014

Guys!

Seems like Scott Todd has already done his conversion on this model back in Feb. 2014 and just take a look at the Video!

Of course he is using an E-Flite 46 (670Kv) and required 5-cells for very good respectable RPMs.

Here is the thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6#post27468106

Video:
https://vimeo.com/86060884
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Old 10-15-2015, 02:47 AM
  #28  
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Default Grey Version For Sale

Check it out guys!

It is just Money.....$$$$

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Ha...item3aaf2ed10d

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Old 10-15-2015, 07:59 AM
  #29  
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One of the earlier posts - you mention heavy tail parts .... something that could be done when converting - is to carefully remove the film / covering and then cut lightening holes in any solid areas. Being e-powered allows this as less vibration stress is transmitted into structure.

Now you are near to maidening ... I wish all the best.

Nigel
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Old 10-15-2015, 10:55 AM
  #30  
fhhuber
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
One of the earlier posts - you mention heavy tail parts .... something that could be done when converting - is to carefully remove the film / covering and then cut lightening holes in any solid areas. Being e-powered allows this as less vibration stress is transmitted into structure.

Now you are near to maidening ... I wish all the best.

Nigel
Considering how loosely attached the covering usually is on those things... After peeling and checking on potential for lightening you should be able to put the covering back.
(Good idea to iron down all the seams before flight)
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Old 10-15-2015, 02:56 PM
  #31  
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Guys,

Thanks for posting and for those recommendations to make it lighter at the AFT.

Pretty much, I am resolute to just fly this model as-is with all the tail weight.

Hopefully, tonight I will perform the following:

1. Remove the Emax 46 motor with bent out-put shaft.
2. Install the brand new Emax 46 motor.
3. Install the plywood floor board for the battery.
4. Install the aileron & Flap servos.
5. Install the Castle Creations BEC PRO.
6. Test all systems including the Power System and measure.

Take care.
Guapo.
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:47 PM
  #32  
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Default Another Long Night! Wing Assembly and Testing

Guys,

Always check your servos and make sure they are not reverse as I found an old Hitec HS-300 that was and it was giving me hell trying to figure out what was going on......FLAPS!

Here is what I used last night to complete the wing assemblies!











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Old 10-17-2015, 04:46 PM
  #33  
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Exclamation Sky Power 60-AMP ESC with built-in 6-AMP Switch Mode SBEC

Guys,

I am not going to use a switch harness on this one as my buddy who sold me that Giles G-202 did his homework and selected a very capable 60-AMP ESC with built-in 6-AMP Switch Mode BEC.

I looked up the specifications and providing them here:
http://www.headsuphobby.com/Sky-Powe...-BEC-H-110.htm

Just in case HeadsUPHobby no longer stocks this particular ESC, I have saved a screen capture showing the description and specifications here:


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Old 10-18-2015, 11:51 AM
  #34  
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Default Ready for Maiden!

Guys,

After so many GO BACKS, I finally got the F22 Raptor the way I like it and it seems like it turned out very well. Its been a very challenging project in terms that you have to figure out placement of battery and working with a small and tight frontal FUSE area but, nevertheless, I believe this model shines with Electric over Glow any day!

1. I took out the Nose Wheel gear and rotating ARM to secure the push rod as it was left loose by the previous owner and made some additional adjustments.

2. Completed the propeller adapter and used a Great Planes propeller adapter using a SET SCREW to take advantage of the motor's flat spot on the output shaft. The pressure collar Adapter that came with the motor is just too scary since this motor produces lots and lots of power.

3. Tested the motor with the Pressure Adapter and swinging the APC 12 X 8 "E" and that thing was already up at 56-AMPS and above 835-Watts and it was very scary, besides this reading was done at 3/4 throttle.

4. I have installed the APC 11 X 5.5 "E" Propeller but, I don't have time to test and like to keep the AMPs (Current) down as much as possible and increase "Airspeed" so, this is what the model will use for its maiden.

A few pictures!

































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Last edited by guapoman2000; 10-18-2015 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 10-18-2015, 12:10 PM
  #35  
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Default Maiden Flight will use..........

Guys,

Yes, I do realize that for good airspeed one has to select a high pitch propeller but, I want to take it easy on the new motor and most importantly the ESC and monitor the air cooling since this model has such a tight narrow FUSE.

I do have several propellers on hand for better airspeed results......


What I selected for Maiden Flight is the APC 11 X 5.5 "E" Propeller to give it that middle of the road technique and monitor the temperature after perhaps 3 - 4 minute flight.



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Old 10-18-2015, 04:21 PM
  #36  
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Hello!

I am glad that I fell asleep when I did because I have been working on this project a little too much and with too many nights so, a good night rest to see things in a better perspective does wonders.

For example, this morning I finally found the section of the Manual where it shows the Center-Of-Gravity and it is exactly 6 inches from the leading edge of the wing where the wing meets the FUSE!

This is great news since I can move the large battery a few inches back as right now it is NOSE HEAVY! By moving the battery a few inches back the top hatch can now be secured without any pressure or the need to take away any wood from it and not make any contact with the top side of the battery.

Again, I am glad that I didn't go out the RC Club field today to fly it as the conditions are nice but, with lots of wind and the pilot would have been tired!

Here is the manual showing you the balance point.

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Old 10-18-2015, 04:26 PM
  #37  
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Guys,

Taking out the custom battery platform to provide additional Velcro straps so, new holes would be required a few inches AFT on the platform.

Drilling now!
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:32 PM
  #38  
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Its balanced fine if you can push the tail to the ground and it just drops the nosewheel back to the ground when you let go.

Mains are placed so far forward that its possible for the plane to fly well and yet want to drag the tail.
After beginners got used to the plane we'd rebend the mains to move the wheels back so we could shift the CG back more. (takes a bit of experimenting to get that right)
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Old 10-18-2015, 04:38 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Its balanced fine if you can push the tail to the ground and it just drops the nosewheel back to the ground when you let go.

Mains are placed so far forward that its possible for the plane to fly well and yet want to drag the tail.
After beginners got used to the plane we'd rebend the mains to move the wheels back so we could shift the CG back more. (takes a bit of experimenting to get that right)
Thanks fhhuber,

Seems like this is the reason for the model to be jumping upwards during taxi in all the Videos that I have watched.

So, Horizon (Hangar9) made it to be NOSE heavy from the get go?

Yes, it certainly goes back on its NOSE Wheel (Rotate) after pulling it down on its tail on level floor.

I just want to keep it at spec's
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:04 PM
  #40  
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Its typical to balance a trainer considerably more noseheavy in order to force in some added stability.

Noseheavy will help insure the nose drops in a stall and stall recovery will be more rapid because you already have adequate airspeed.
A great example is the full scale Ercoupe which had a relatively small elevator and is nearly impossible to load so its CG is behind 30% without exceeding its max gross weight. The elevator loses authority before there's enough AOA to induce a spin from level flight. (you can dive to exceed max rated airspeed and get the elevator authority needed...)

Also with it noseheavy, the trim will have the plane self recover from a dive. Get confused and in trouble? OK, let go of the sticks and if there is enough altitude it eventually levels itself out.

You can take the noseheavy CG too far and make a plane difficult to fly, mainly form having to have high airspeed to keep the nose up.

Get the CG back further (move back slowly.. 1/8 to 1/4 inch at a time and test fly) and the plane can make nice slow speed landings, which you'll never see when balanced by the instructions.
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Old 10-18-2015, 05:16 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Its typical to balance a trainer considerably more noseheavy in order to force in some added stability.

.......
...........
..............................
Get the CG back further (move back slowly.. 1/8 to 1/4 inch at a time and test fly) and the plane can make nice slow speed landings, which you'll never see when balanced by the instructions.

Fhhuber,

Thanks so much and this is a sound recommendation! Will do and I will start with some nose weight, perhaps nothing more than 1/2 inch FORWARD from the Center-of-Gravity and slowly move the Battery pack further AFT until I can land the model as slowly as you stated.

Also, any tips on using FLAPS? I am going to test UP HIGH!
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Old 10-18-2015, 09:58 PM
  #42  
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Flaps alter the stall characteristic at low deflection and high deflection adds drag.

By drooping the trailing edge in the middle you make it more likely for the middle of the wing to stall before the tips which makes the plane tend to not drop a wing without warning.

The PTS (Progressive Trainer system) F-22 does benefit from flaps.
In PTS beginner configuration the flaps were locked at appx 30 deg deflection with the add-on leading edge extension/droops and the combination made it very unlikely for it to drop a wing without warning.
Second step in PTS was pull the droops but leave the flaps down
Third was flaps up or make them servo operated.

Note that the wing shape is such that without flaps it is very likely to drop a wing when it stalls.

If doing 3 position I would have it 0, 10, 30 deg.
5 position I would have it 0, 5, 12, 30, 45 deg.

anything beyond 40 deg is just adding more drag, not helping with the stall characteristic any more. (still has the effect it just doesn't do more to prevent dropping a wing without warning)

I forgot the elevator trim effect the flaps needed. It does need some. Many planes need up trim with flaps. Some need no trim. A few odd cases need down trim.
I think the F-22 will pitch down with flaps due to flap location, flap size and wing shape.
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Old 10-19-2015, 03:38 AM
  #43  
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Looks very nice. The only question mark in my mind is the choice of a 4S lipo. Seems like it may be underpowered. I fly my much lighter FW 80mm foam jets on 6S. Why not take a walk on the wild side and go with a 5 or 6S? Just saying...

Hawk

P.S. What happened to the G-202 ? I bought one on your raving review.
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:32 AM
  #44  
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I saw a PTS F-22 with a .61 glow... it blew the tailplanes off. A good 6S power system might be more than it can handle.
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:37 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Looks very nice. The only question mark in my mind is the choice of a 4S lipo. Seems like it may be underpowered. I fly my much lighter FW 80mm foam jets on 6S. Why not take a walk on the wild side and go with a 5 or 6S? Just saying...

Hawk
Hawk,

I believe you are referring to those other Glow-To-Electric Conversions.....if so, recall that they were using a much lower Kv motor and thus the need for more cells, hence 6-cells.

No, I don't believe 835 Watts and 56-Amps at 3/4 throttle is under powered.

Good night.
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:38 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Flaps alter the stall characteristic at low deflection and high deflection adds drag.

By drooping the trailing edge in the middle you make it more likely for the middle of the wing to stall before the tips which makes the plane tend to not drop a wing without warning.

The PTS (Progressive Trainer system) F-22 does benefit from flaps.
In PTS beginner configuration the flaps were locked at appx 30 deg deflection with the add-on leading edge extension/droops and the combination made it very unlikely for it to drop a wing without warning.
Second step in PTS was pull the droops but leave the flaps down
Third was flaps up or make them servo operated.

Note that the wing shape is such that without flaps it is very likely to drop a wing when it stalls.

If doing 3 position I would have it 0, 10, 30 deg.
5 position I would have it 0, 5, 12, 30, 45 deg.

anything beyond 40 deg is just adding more drag, not helping with the stall characteristic any more. (still has the effect it just doesn't do more to prevent dropping a wing without warning)

I forgot the elevator trim effect the flaps needed. It does need some. Many planes need up trim with flaps. Some need no trim. A few odd cases need down trim.
I think the F-22 will pitch down with flaps due to flap location, flap size and wing shape.

Thanks once again, Fhhuber!

Will note and take your recommendations.
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Old 10-19-2015, 05:04 AM
  #47  
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Note the simple hinged flaps used on this model don't really do much to change minimum airspeed to maintain level flight.
(commonly called stall speed, because slower and it will stall, but it can stall faster too)

Fowler and other styles of flaps that add wing area and slotted flaps can change the minimum speed for level flight.
Airliner flaps move back more than down for the first part of deployment and can add a large percentage to wing area plus the leading edge slats and gaps in between segments add slot effects which combine to significantly reduce minimum flying speed.

Not worth the added weight and complexity to try to make this happen on most models.
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:24 PM
  #48  
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fhhuber,

Well, I already have the Flaps functional and intend to use them.

I will keep airspeed as I used Standard Servos with good amount of torque.

This is not the first time I use Flaps, just was asking about your experience with them on this model and it is too bad that they are not that effective. I do NOT have any Trainer slats so, again will keep airspeed and test 5 mistakes up high.

Waiting for better wind conditions over here in Central Florida as this entire week calls out for high gusty winds.

No WINE BEFORE ITS TIME...........
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:35 PM
  #49  
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Given the amount of surface area of the 22 .... I would forget Flaps and go for Spoilers so I get a better rate of descent while still controlling speed.

Many models are actually better at landing with them than floating on with Flaps ...

Slowly the school of thought is being weaned of Flaps ... I know I was a hard case to convince, but once I tried it ... that was it.

Nigel
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:44 PM
  #50  
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What I meant about "not worth it" is the complex system needed for multi-stage Fowler flaps and retractable leading edge slats. That gets heavy fast.
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