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Beginner to AP with a Slow Stick

Old 09-07-2008, 04:49 PM
  #51  
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I've really enjoyed this thread and have learned alot from reading the information posted here from cameras to camera mounts to motors. I figured I would post this question here rather than start a new thread just to keep the info on one thread.
I have the NPS kit for a new SS that I will be using just for AP. I have built a mount for a Nikon LS4 that I have lying around. The camera and mount together way in at 7.9 oz. I have three BL motors currently not tied to planes at the moment and figured I would pop in here and ask some opinions about which one is best suited for my new SS.
I have two BP type (from heads-up RC) 2410-9, 2409-12 and I have a Turnigy 28-30-azj 1100Kv. I think the Turnigy might be a pain to mount. Anyway, which would be best suited or should I buy something else?
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:35 PM
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BatteriesIncluded,

Well you didn't include the batteries you have - but the 2409-12 (if this is the 200 watt version) wouls certainly be my choice of the three you already have.

Be absolutely certain that you use .0125 or .0250 (1/8 or 1/4") carbon fiber rods/tubes across your SS wing for strength. I used 2 .0250 CF tubes in the front coupled with an 8" piece of 1/8 music wire epoxied into the center and bent to give the proper dihedral. I also placed a similar setup only using the .0125 tubes to the trailing edge of the wing. It is very strong.

That 2409-12 is not a particularly efficient motor but it is powerful. Propped correctly it will pull the weight well. My AUW SS is 42 oz. It all depends upon the type of AP you want. For "normal" AP you will want to be at between 400 to 800 feet and fly fairly close to the "subject" so take offs and landings become a factor also. Take offs not so much cause you can always hand launch in a tight place - but landings are MANDATORY and you'll need a good place for that - and lots of practice with THAT plane. Most of all you want to HAVE FUN doing this!


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Old 09-08-2008, 03:13 AM
  #53  
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I agree with HB--go with the 2409-12. That's what I'm using on my AV/AP Slow Stick, and even with the 7 oz. camera and mount loaded, it will still climb at a 60-70 degree angle (using a 3S LiPo). Just be advised that the 2409-12 motor will pull around 25 amps at full throttle, so be sure that your BESC and LiPo can handle that load.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention, I'm using an 8x6 straight sport prop on my 2409-12.
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Old 09-08-2008, 03:23 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by hillbille View Post
BatteriesIncluded,

Well you didn't include the batteries you have - but the 2409-12 (if this is the 200 watt version) wouls certainly be my choice of the three you already have.

Hillbille
My batteries are 3S 2000mah 10C (CSRC), 3S 2200mah 20-30C (Zippy), 3S 1300Mah 20-30C. I have the battery at CG on my current SS so I can swap out battery sizes w/o rebalancing the plane. I would like to do the same with the AP plane unless it's too difficult to have the batt and the camera mount on CG.
I'm thinking the 2409-12 also but I was reading that thrust is better than speed on the SS. Would a 2408-21 be a better choice than the 2409-12? Opinions matter. I've modified an old brushed (EPS) gearbox mount (minus gears) to use for easy thrust modding.
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:20 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by BatteriesIncluded View Post
My batteries are 3S 2000mah 10C (CSRC), 3S 2200mah 20-30C (Zippy), 3S 1300Mah 20-30C.
Don't use the 3S 2000mah 10C with the 2409-12. That battery is only rated up to 20 amps consistent draw, and the 2409-12 could pull several amps higher than that sustained at full throttle, depending on the prop. The 3S 2200mah 20-30C should be fine to use, and you might be OK using the 3S 1300mah 20-30C pack with a 2409-12, but you'd be cutting it close.

Originally Posted by BatteriesIncluded View Post
I have the battery at CG on my current SS so I can swap out battery sizes w/o rebalancing the plane. I would like to do the same with the AP plane unless it's too difficult to have the batt and the camera mount on CG.
For mine, I have the battery forward of the CG on my AV/AP Slow Stick and the CG balanced exactly where it's supposed to be on the wing, with the camera mount attached right underneath the CG. This way, I can fly the plane with or without the camera payload and the CG should still be on. Of course, I can't swap out different size/weight battery packs without readjusting the battery position on the plane. But I always use the same size packs when flying this plane, so it's not been an issue for me.

Originally Posted by BatteriesIncluded View Post
I'm thinking the 2409-12 also but I was reading that thrust is better than speed on the SS. Would a 2408-21 be a better choice than the 2409-12? Opinions matter. I've modified an old brushed (EPS) gearbox mount (minus gears) to use for easy thrust modding.
The 2408-21 is a great motor for the Slow Stick when you're learning to fly AND for small payloads (light digital cameras like a FlyCamOne2 or a hacked CVS digital camera). However, for heavier, higher quality cameras, you really need a more powerful motor. If you want more thrust with a slower, bigger prop and you plan on using a TowerPro BP series motor, then go with a 2409-18. If you want more speed (ability to climb faster, get out farther quicker, etc.), then you can go with the 2409-12 you already have. Honestly, I love the way the 2409-12 makes my Slow Stick just jet almost straight up. Gets me up to my desired altitude quick, and it never hesitates in the slightest when I tell it to go. The 2409-18s I have are good motors, but they just never feel like they're packing the power that the 2409-12 is. Of course, I only use a 1080 or smaller prop on my 2409-18s--maybe I could use a bigger prop (1180, 1280?) and it would feel like I was getting more power for my amps on that motor.
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:48 AM
  #56  
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I went to my parents' home Sunday evening, and while I was there I decided to send up the newly outfitted AP Slow Stick for some aerial views of my hometown (Dowelltown, TN--I was standing right where the + marker is on that map link).

I've attached some of the pictures I managed to take (including the first one, which turned out to be an absolutely perfect shot of my parents home and property perfectly centered in the picture--just like my Mom was wanting ). By the way, these shots show pretty much the WHOLE town. It's a tiny little community.

Oh, and in the second to last shot, you can see the basketball and tennis courts where I whiled away 100s of the hours of my youth. Memories, memories....

The pictures turned out great for the most part, and I'm really pleased with both the performance of the camera-payload carrying Slow Stick and the photo quality of the camera itself. However, I am still having some problems with sun glare causing fading near the edge of some of the photos (it was early evening, and the sun was getting low on the horizon). Does anyone have any suggestions there? Perhaps some kind of jerry-rigged lens hood to prevent the peripheral sunlight from saturating the shots?
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Last edited by gzsfrk; 09-08-2008 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:14 AM
  #57  
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gzsfrk,

I think I'd measure the distance the lens extrudes from the camera body and cut a cardboard roll (tp, paper towel, aluminum foil, pringles, etc., etc..) about 1/2 to 3/4 inch LONGER and use some small dabs of hot glue to affix it to the camera body so that the lens is shaded when fully extended. The lenses on point and shoot cameras have a pretty extended focal length so even an inch might provide you with a "hood" much like the pro's use on their cameras.

The pictures are great! Where I am is all desert - very little green, mostly brown. Makes me homesick and I grew up in Texas!! LOL!!


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Old 09-08-2008, 03:09 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
Don't use the 3S 2000mah 10C with the 2409-12. That battery is only rated up to 20 amps consistent draw, and the 2409-12 could pull several amps higher than that sustained at full throttle, depending on the prop. The 3S 2200mah 20-30C should be fine to use, and you might be OK using the 3S 1300mah 20-30C pack with a 2409-12, but you'd be cutting it close.
Would a 30 amp ESC be fine with the 2200mah and the 2409-12 with a GWS EP 9050 prop?

Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
For mine, I have the battery forward of the CG on my AV/AP Slow Stick and the CG balanced exactly where it's supposed to be on the wing, with the camera mount attached right underneath the CG. This way, I can fly the plane with or without the camera payload and the CG should still be on. Of course, I can't swap out different size/weight battery packs without readjusting the battery position on the plane. But I always use the same size packs when flying this plane, so it's not been an issue for me.
It seems like this is the way I'm going to go and just order another battery close to or the same as the 2200mah Zippy. They are cheap enough anyway and this would double my flight and picture taking time.

Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
for heavier, higher quality cameras, you really need a more powerful motor. If you want more thrust with a slower, bigger prop and you plan on using a TowerPro BP series motor, then go with a 2409-18. If you want more speed (ability to climb faster, get out farther quicker, etc.), then you can go with the 2409-12 you already have. Honestly, I love the way the 2409-12 makes my Slow Stick just jet almost straight up. Gets me up to my desired altitude quick, and it never hesitates in the slightest when I tell it to go. The 2409-18s I have are good motors, but they just never feel like they're packing the power that the 2409-12 is. Of course, I only use a 1080 or smaller prop on my 2409-18s--maybe I could use a bigger prop (1180, 1280?) and it would feel like I was getting more power for my amps on that motor.
I guess I can use this in some wind as long as I reinforce the wings?
From what I have read the biggest prop to use with a 3 cell on the 2409-12 is 9050 but it's possible to use a bigger prop if you go to a 2 cell. Is this correct?

I've only flown with the stock brushed 400C (D gear) that came with the stick. Had the brushed gear lying around at the time and figured I may as well use it. It's working well with my CVS Cam. I am worried about anything other than a slight breeze taking my plane away. Another good reason for more power (and weight). I think I'll switch the "learning" stick over to the 2410-09 brushless to see how she handles while I'm getting the AP stick together.

Thanks to everyone for the help!
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Old 09-08-2008, 04:16 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by hillbille View Post
I think I'd measure the distance the lens extrudes from the camera body and cut a cardboard roll (tp, paper towel, aluminum foil, pringles, etc., etc..) about 1/2 to 3/4 inch LONGER and use some small dabs of hot glue to affix it to the camera body so that the lens is shaded when fully extended. The lenses on point and shoot cameras have a pretty extended focal length so even an inch might provide you with a "hood" much like the pro's use on their cameras.
Thanks for the advice! I think I'll try just that. One thing though--should I expect a 1.5" diameter 2" scoop on the camera to affect the flight dynamics very much? How drastically would that increase the drag on the plane? (Not that my setup is exactly aerodynamic to begin with. )

Originally Posted by hillbille View Post
The pictures are great! Where I am is all desert - very little green, mostly brown. Makes me homesick and I grew up in Texas!! LOL!!
Yeah, I went to Phoenix on business for the first week in August, and it was my first trip that far out west. And I was just blown away how they have hills just like here in Tennessee, except they're all BROWN and scraggly. It was almost like waking up in some dystopian future wasteland. (Except, of course, that there was the occasional In-N-Out Burger and Pappadeaux's. )

Last edited by gzsfrk; 09-08-2008 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 09-08-2008, 06:46 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by BatteriesIncluded View Post
Would a 30 amp ESC be fine with the 2200mah and the 2409-12 with a GWS EP 9050 prop?
Maybe, but that would be the absolute largest prop I would try using on a 2409-12. To be sure, you should really hook that setup up to a watt meter (I love my Watts Up!) and test it to be safe. You really don't want to go much over 23 amps or so peak with the 2409-12, as it's only rated as a 200w motor. So if you're running a 3S at full charge, that's around 12 volts you're pushing to the motor at full throttle. Divide that into 200 watts, and you get that you shouldn't be running at more than around 17 amps sustained. On a fully charged 2S lipo pushing 8 volts at full throttle, the motor should be able to handle closer to 25A sustained (of course, that's assuming that your BESC can handle more than 25 amps, since you never want to really reach your ESC's listed limit if at all possible; CHELLIE recommends at least a 5 amp buffer between your ESC's listed peak and the peak you expect to be able to reach from your power setup).

Of course, all those calculations are based off of the manufacturer's specs for the 2409-12; you may or may not be able to get more than that out of them without causing any damage.

Originally Posted by BatteriesIncluded View Post
I guess I can use this in some wind as long as I reinforce the wings?
My red Slow Stick came with a plastic wing reinforcement brace that you glue/tape to the middle of the wing, and I have had no need for additional reinforcement, and mild winds (5-8mph) don't seem to stress the wing at all. However, if your Slow Stick does NOT come with that brace (like my yellow Slow Stick), then you certainly would want to add some kind of bracing to the wing when flying with any kind of significant payload.

I don't have any additional bracing on my yellow SS (my casual/trainer flyer), and when I stress the wings (either in wind or doing loops, et. al.), they do indeed tend to flex and creak a bit. It's OK for that plane, since it weighs practically nothing and I tend to fly it fairly gentle. However, if you added a payload to that frame, then you would definitely want to add some rigidity to the wing.

Incidentally, you can order that clear plastic wing brace from some online retailers who carry the Slow Stick for a modest price (a buddy of mine ordered one to go with his when he found that his didn't come with the brace).

Originally Posted by BatteriesIncluded View Post
From what I have read the biggest prop to use with a 3 cell on the 2409-12 is 9050 but it's possible to use a bigger prop if you go to a 2 cell. Is this correct?
The bigggest prop I've ever tried on a 2409-12 is a 9047SF, and that was running a 2S. However, I kept having problems with resonance (could've just been because it was a cheap prop), so I downgraded it back to a stiff 8x6.

Last edited by gzsfrk; 09-08-2008 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:51 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
n
My red Slow Stick came with a plastic wing reinforcement brace that you glue/tape to the middle of the wing, and I have had no need for additional reinforcement, and mild winds (5-8mph) don't seem to stress the wing at all. However, if your Slow Stick does NOT come with that brace (like my yellow Slow Stick), then you certainly would want to add some kind of bracing to the wing when flying with any kind of significant payload.

Incidentally, you can order that clear plastic wing brace from some online retailers who carry the Slow Stick for a modest price (a buddy of mine ordered one to go with his when he found that his didn't come with the brace).
I've been googling and checking online retailers but can't find the clear plastic wing brace. I ordered a Yellow NPS that did not come with it so it would be nice if I could find one to order.
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:37 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by BatteriesIncluded View Post
I've been googling and checking online retailers but can't find the clear plastic wing brace. I ordered a Yellow NPS that did not come with it so it would be nice if I could find one to order.
Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I checked, and my buddy actually called a LHS to place an order for one. So if you want to pick one up, then you might try going that route--calling a LHS and seeing if they can place an order for that part for you.
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:42 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
Thanks for the advice! I think I'll try just that. One thing though--should I expect a 1.5" diameter 2" scoop on the camera to affect the flight dynamics very much? How drastically would that increase the drag on the plane? (Not that my setup is exactly aerodynamic to begin with. )
I'd just use a paper punch to make a few holes in the BOTTOM half for air vents. Shouldn't be too much of a problem though.


Yeah, I went to Phoenix on business for the first week in August, and it was my first trip that far out west. And I was just blown away how they have hills just like here in Tennessee, except they're all BROWN and scraggly. It was almost like waking up in some dystopian future wasteland. (Except, of course, that there was the occasional In-N-Out Burger and Pappadeaux's. )
It's those summer nights when the temperature at midnight falls down to around 105 that a "green" area is at a premium just for the cool moist air rising!! LOL!! Makes you just begin to appreciate what the boys in Iraq and Afghanistan are seeing every day they are there.


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Old 09-14-2008, 07:15 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
Honestly, I love the way the 2409-12 makes my Slow Stick just jet almost straight up. Gets me up to my desired altitude quick, and it never hesitates in the slightest when I tell it to go.
What size prop are you using and how many amps is your ESC rated for?
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BatteriesIncluded View Post
What size prop are you using and how many amps is your ESC rated for?
8x6 sport straight prop, and a 25 amp Mag-8 ESC (the one that comes in the 2409-12 combo from Hobby City).
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:14 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by hillbille View Post
BatteriesIncluded,

Be absolutely certain that you use .0125 or .0250 (1/8 or 1/4") carbon fiber rods/tubes across your SS wing for strength. I used 2 .0250 CF tubes in the front coupled with an 8" piece of 1/8 music wire epoxied into the center and bent to give the proper dihedral. I also placed a similar setup only using the .0125 tubes to the trailing edge of the wing. It is very strong.

Hillbille
Got any pictures of your wing strengthening?
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