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Turnigy Problems

Old 10-18-2009, 07:51 PM
  #1  
madfreestyler
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Hey All,

Was wondering if anyone has any ideas on an issue im having with my turnigy setup.

Ive got a 42-50 Turnigy with an 80a esc in an EF Extra 58 currently running 5s.

On Friday i test flew the plane on 5s, it flew a dream plenty of power supurb, however on the 2nd flight there was a bang in the air and the motor wouldnt spin back up.

I landed without power and tested on the ground. The prop bounced but wouldn't spin, almost as if the timing was off. Recommendations suggest to have timing set to high for this combo so im stuck on the cause of the issue.

After several attempts on the ground with the prop just bouncing eventually it began to rotate again as it was pre flight. However im reluctant to try it again incase i loose the power again.

Any suggestions? Both motor and esc are brand new.

Thanks in advance
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Old 10-18-2009, 07:56 PM
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CHELLIE
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A Magnet in the motor may have come loose, check your motor for a loose magnet,
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:45 PM
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Sounds like it is "single phasing". That happens when one of the three windings isn't working. Check the motor, ESC and wiring as this could be in either. I have had this happen a couple times and it turned out to be the ESC.
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:51 PM
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madfreestyler
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Is there an easy way to check the windings without stripping the motor? I have a multimeter. Does it make a difference that it is intermittent? Or could a winding be on its way out? Motor has run less than 10 mins since new.............

I hope its not the esc this is the 2nd 80a turnigy on this plane, the bec failed on the first, ive eliminated it on this one. I was tempted to get one for my miss wind but given my experience so far might have to try something else
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:06 PM
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TDisaster
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Can you spin the motor by hand? If yes, then it's not a loose magnet. If no, then take the motor apart and re glue the magnet in place.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:23 PM
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madfreestyler
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Yeah can spin by hand no problem, feels new............ last off it did run but darent try it because of what happened in the last flight.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:34 PM
  #7  
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You should get almost zero ohms between all three wires, that would rule out an open winding. I am betting the ESC doesn't want to play nice with the motor. The ESC works by detecting what is happening in the motor (feedback). If it doesn't detect correctly then it has no way of knowing how to time the pulses of voltage and the motor won't turn.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:43 PM
  #8  
madfreestyler
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Do you think its worth changing the timing on the esc?

Most people seem to recommend the high setting but there are med and low options avaliable. Is it worth trying the med setting? Im guessing if its firing to fast maybe it could go out of sync with the motor, but then again my electronics knowledge is limited in this area........
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:47 PM
  #9  
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I would try the different settings on the ESC. Is there any documentation on the ESC as to what the settings are for?
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:51 PM
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Just searched the other forums. Most say to use low setting sometimes medium and rarely high settings. Check this thread
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:06 PM
  #11  
madfreestyler
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Im gonna have to try it............ im sure on the HC site it said to use high but ive gotta try something, got the programmer so easy to change, will report back the results.

Cheers all for the replies so far, it amazes me in here how quick people reply.

Now just got to get work out the way for the week so i can get back to the field.................

Cheers for now
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:12 PM
  #12  
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From what I read, the high setting is for optimum performance and produces high amps and heat so motors don't last as long. I would tell you to use it too if I was selling them.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:45 AM
  #13  
Larry3215
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I wouldnt bother changing the timeing. If it was running fine before there is no reason why it shouldnt run fine now on the exact same settings.

In other words there is no reason to change the timing because it cant be the problem. You already know it runs on the original settings. Something else must have changed.

Ive never seen a case where poor timing prevented a motor from running at all. Poor timing may make a motor run hot or it may loose sync at hi rpms, but I've never seen it prevent a startup.

It sounds like the motor was working fine, then quit, the started working again?

Electronic failures are rarely intermittent like that. Most of the time when an esc fails it stays dead.

It sounds to me like a connection issue. Either you have an intermittent connection inside the motor or in one of the connectors or more likely, one of the leads coming out of the motor. It could also be an internal short thats intermittent.

Id connect up the ohm meter again to the motor and tug and twist on the leads as you check the resistance. If it fluctuates at all then thats the issue.

If its inside the motor, the open may only show up when the motor gets hot. Thats much harder to find. You will have to run it up on the bench untill it gets warmed up to see if it re-occurs.
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:46 AM
  #14  
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Oh - also check to see if there is a short to the motor case or shaft. Touch the ohm meter lead to each of the motor wires in turn and see if there is a connection to the case or shaft or any part of the motor. If there is you have an internal short.
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Old 10-19-2009, 11:16 AM
  #15  
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Check the connections between the motor and ESC for a cold solder joint.
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Old 10-19-2009, 03:34 PM
  #16  
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Inanimate objects don't heal, so I would not bother attempting to fly again until at least something is replaced. Whether that is the motor or the ESC, is up to you.

It's definitely not the timing. Unlike Larry I have had cases where incorrect timing caused the motor to fail to start. I've also run several high-voltage Turnigy setups, 5S and 6S specifically. They NEED the high timing setting to run properly. None of my setups will run on the low timing setup without losing sync at about 1/2 throttle.

Can you smell burnt electronics? A blown capacitor makes a pretty impressive bang.
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:12 PM
  #17  
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I have been using Turnigy motors & escs for years without any problem. Is the 42-50 the SK version(black/silver) or the reqular (gold/silver). The Sk version can handle a 5S lipo, but the regular is limited to a 4S lipo. Timing is not your problem, but drawing too much power might be. Did you use a wattmeter to test your setup?
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:30 PM
  #18  
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I'm not familiar with that particular ESC but I believe that most ESC's have a thermal cut-off. Are you sure you just didn't overheat the ESC and it shut down until it cooled off?
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Old 11-14-2009, 06:07 AM
  #19  
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It is an multipole outrunner, timing should be "high".

The problem you have is 95% sure due to a bad connection in one of the connections between ESC and motor. Try an other ESC, or resolder the wires out from the ESC. Check soldering quality in the connectors. I have found several bad soldering joints on these China gadgets.
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Old 11-14-2009, 06:40 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by madfreestyler View Post
Hey All,

Was wondering if anyone has any ideas on an issue im having with my turnigy setup.

Ive got a 42-50 Turnigy with an 80a esc in an EF Extra 58 currently running 5s.

On Friday i test flew the plane on 5s, it flew a dream plenty of power supurb, however on the 2nd flight there was a bang in the air and the motor wouldnt spin back up.

I landed without power and tested on the ground. The prop bounced but wouldn't spin, almost as if the timing was off. Recommendations suggest to have timing set to high for this combo so im stuck on the cause of the issue.

After several attempts on the ground with the prop just bouncing eventually it began to rotate again as it was pre flight. However im reluctant to try it again incase i loose the power again.

Any suggestions? Both motor and esc are brand new.

Thanks in advance

If it is a Turnigy Plush 80A ESC, I would suggest fiddling with the timing.

Fellow Wattflyer Capt Easy and I had a similar "backfire" issue with this same setup (80A Plush and 50-65A) while we were motor testing his Black Horse P-36. It only happened when we advanced the throttle suddenly - We adjusted the timing down from HIGH (I forget to which setting, I'd have to pull out the card) and it never happened again.

Just my $0.02,

GRU
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Old 11-14-2009, 07:08 AM
  #21  
ministeve2003
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Resolder the bullet connectors on both esc and motor to rule out a possible short from cold solder joint, this could have been a factory issue, it does happen from time to time.

Generally, you'll set High timing for most outrunners, and Low timing for most Inrunners. I have had some outrunners not start on low timing, or Jerk around unless you give it throttle quickly above about 10% (usually People using older Castle 54 esc's have that issue because the esc doesn't do high timing) I've also seen motors that work great on high timing, but that fry on low timing after they ignored the Jerky start.... I've seen that more than once, so it's not a fluke...

also, double check your throttle range setting , to do this, turn your tx on in full (I know it sounds scarry), then plug your battery, you'll hear a couple beeps to start programming mode, then a couple more, put it at low throttle, and it beeps again... then unplug your battery, and start like normal with throttle down...

SK
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:05 AM
  #22  
Larry3215
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Its interesting all the different recommendations people have

Here is mine!

If your running a Castle controller and an outrunner - leave the timing set to default or set it to low. Running a Castle controller on an outrunner on hi timing just creates more heat and may cause loss of sync.

With Inrunners and Castle controllers generally default timing is best except at vey hi rpms then hi timing may work a bit better. Again, it often just makes things run hotter with no increase in rpms.

Its best to monitor rpms/amp and choose the best setting that way.

With other controllers all bets are off.

Castle controllers actually dont have "fixed" timing. It adjusts on the fly according to rpm and the inductance of the motor and the load. Thats why "default" is usually fine for most setups.

PWM for outrunners should be set as low as possible or use the new "Outrunner mode" if that works better.

Again thats just for Castle controllers. YMMV with other controllers.

Inrunners seems to work best in the mid range on PWM - 12-16 khz for most of the ones Ive tested with a few - like Kontronik Tangos liking 24 khz. The motors tend to run a little cooler at higher PWMs but the Controllers run hotter - so compromise

By the way - the new Castle software thats just been released is very nice. Significant improvement in outrunner efficiency, startup and gov mode.

I also highly recomend the new ICE controllers. They are the best thing on the market at the moment - bar none

Finally - I am also strongly in the loose/bad connection /internal short camp
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Old 11-14-2009, 11:50 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post

With Inrunners and Castle controllers generally default timing is best except at vey hi rpms then hi timing may work a bit better. Again, it often just makes things run hotter with no increase in rpms.
funny, Castle says the exact opposite on their inrunner "mamba max" stuff

http://www.castlecreations.com/suppo...ing_guide.html

"Over time with testing, we’ve found it’s best to use a lower setting in order to keep motor temps in check, especially with very very fast setups."


SK
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:12 AM
  #24  
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The Mamba setups are on the extreme hi end performance wise. They are pushing those motors super hard and heating is a higher than normal concern.

But actually, it looks to me like they agree with what I said exactly - except that I added a possible exception to the general rule.

I dont see that as opposite at all - I said higher advance generally makes things hotter - with some possible exceptions.

What I meant by "better" was that in some applications you can get more rpm and more power with higher timing - I did say "it may work a bit better". May, not will. Again - in some applications.


With 'some' airplane and edf setups it is actually worth it to use higher timeing. Normally it isnt worth it.

I also said - test your setups and use what works best.

Castle wouldnt have it as an option if there wasnt a possible use for it
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Old 11-15-2009, 12:21 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post

default timing is best except at vey hi rpms then hi timing may work a bit better.
"weve found its best to use a lower setting .......especially with very very fast setups." - hmm...."

I took this to mean High RPM motors.... because low kv motors don't make for many fast setups...

Oh well..

SK
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