Blade CP Pro tail movement during climb & descent. - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight

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Blade CP Pro tail movement during climb & descent.

Old 01-26-2007, 02:44 AM
  #1  
av8r
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Default Blade CP Pro tail movement during climb & descent.

When I increase collective to make the heli climb, the tail swings to the right. When it descends, the tail swings to the left. When the altitude doesn't change, the tail stays put. Is it possible to adjust this out with the gain pot or is a heading hold gyro the only fix? Thanks.
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Old 01-26-2007, 02:59 AM
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Gino
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It does that to some degree and can be regarded as normal. If it swings out too much then it could be a worn motor. Tail motors last 10 hours average.

If you want a more solid tail, get a dual tail motor setup or a direct drive. If you are not into aggressive 3D, I recommend the dual motors. They last about 20 hours, hold the tail very well on punching out, and they run really cool without heatsinks.

Then as you move into reverse flying, funnels, and inverted, you can try the direct drive tail. I find this to be more precise. It is just as solid on punchouts like the dual motors. But getting the right motor is a hit and miss. Get the wrong one and it doesn't last very long. The best reported combination is the GWS EP-0320 prop and the motor from an EDF40H ducted fan unit. This is believed to be the CN12-RXC.
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Old 01-26-2007, 03:06 AM
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Huckin'Chikn
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I've been noticing the tail rotor on my CP starting to do the same thing...
Maybe i'll check out the direct drive, that sounds promising!
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Old 01-26-2007, 03:15 AM
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Here's mine. GWS EP-0320 prop, CN12-RXC motor, and GWS heatsink. Got them from aero-fever.com in HK.
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:07 AM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by Gino View Post
It does that to some degree and can be regarded as normal. If it swings out too much then it could be a worn motor. Tail motors last 10 hours average.

If you want a more solid tail, get a dual tail motor setup or a direct drive. If you are not into aggressive 3D, I recommend the dual motors. They last about 20 hours, hold the tail very well on punching out, and they run really cool without heatsinks.

Then as you move into reverse flying, funnels, and inverted, you can try the direct drive tail. I find this to be more precise. It is just as solid on punchouts like the dual motors. But getting the right motor is a hit and miss. Get the wrong one and it doesn't last very long. The best reported combination is the GWS EP-0320 prop and the motor from an EDF40H ducted fan unit. This is believed to be the CN12-RXC.
Right now, I'm just hovering, hope to start forward flight soon but the weather isn't likely to be favorable here for quite a while. I'm flying mostly in my living room for now, about a 10' x 12' x 8' high space. I can't do much in that small of a space, but it's making me get pretty good at hovering. I'm even doing side-ins pretty good now which I wasn't going to try until I had some more room outside, but I was getting a little bored doing just tail-in. I'm a long way from aggressive 3D, if I ever get there. I do look forward to being able to do rolls and loops someday. I can roll and hover inverted on the sim pretty good but their tails don't swing.

The tail doesn't swing too much but I'm not exactly punching out. It's slow and careful stuff right now. I'm actually getting used to it and compensating by controlling the tail. If I tried to do a roll, I'd probably be in big trouble because I imagine under a strong climb the tail would swing quite a bit based on how much it is swinging on just a little short climb indoors.

My tail motor has about 6 hours on it. I can replace it and see what difference a new one makes.

So, adjusting the gyro gain or upgrading to the G90 wouldn't help this?
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Old 01-26-2007, 01:28 PM
  #6  
ironwill96
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Well I would think IF the tail motor is still functioning fine, then a heading hold gyro would also fix your issue. I'm definitely considering getting one eventually, Gino's upgrade also looks very nice! Looks like a lot higher quality tail assembly than the stock stuff on my Blade CP Pro.

Nathan
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Old 01-26-2007, 02:02 PM
  #7  
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I am impressed by the overall simplicity of it. It is lighter than dual tail motors. After dremelling out the motor bushing hole on the housing, it just fits perfectly. It attaches with one screw since the other hole won't line up. But that is all it needs.

It is as solid as dual tail motors on hovers and punchouts, very quick on piros, very precise tail control, no stepped left turns common to dual tail motors, and very solid feel after doing fast piros ( the stock tail rotor feels like it will break apart after doing fast piros).

I just need to observe and report back if the CN12-RXC I got lasts reasonably long.

Here's a video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIdqVzoxo9k
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:09 PM
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ironwill96
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Wow it sure does turn quick with that motor!
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Old 01-26-2007, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Gino View Post
Here's mine. GWS EP-0320 prop, CN12-RXC motor, and GWS heatsink. Got them from aero-fever.com in HK.
Looks great! And my LHS has all 3 of those items in stock! I Might just have to give that a try.

Dumb question: How does the prop attach to the motor shaft? Thanks.
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:04 PM
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Best to use a vise to press it. But you have to desolder the capacitor first. I took a short cut, laid the prop on the floor and tapped the back end with the flat end of a big nail.

You also need to get a GWS gear puller so you can remove the prop in the future when changing motors and reuse them. Alternatively, you can just break the prop awhen removing and use new ones.
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:33 PM
  #11  
ironwill96
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Interesting, so this tail rotor is pretty much on it for the long-term? If you smack it into the ground = bad mojo for your tail motor? Looks like something I better wait a few months to get so I don't destroy it :-)
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:53 PM
  #12  
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It appears that the GWS rotor has another advantage: it's a lot smaller in diameter so is probably a lot less likely to hit the ground.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:22 PM
  #13  
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Yes this setup is best used when you've nailed hovering, take offs and landings. If you constantly hit the pavement with the stock rotor, you might just damage a bunch of these. The prop is stiff and brittle.

But it does offer a very stable tail while hovering. Reaction times are quicker to bring that precious tail back-in.

Remember though that motors of this size aren't alike.The first ones we tried didn't last very long. You want the CN12-RXC. The motor that comes with the EDF40H ducted fan or the EDP-50XC (motor and EP-0320 prop set).
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Old 02-08-2007, 10:51 PM
  #14  
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Default Update on tail movement question

I kept flying the old tail motor for many more flights and the tail movement I originally asked about was not a big problem, since I don't do a lot of climbing or descending yet. As suggested, I think it's normal for this setup.

I flew it until it had 10 hours on it and considered replacing it at that point just to be safe, but since I'm just hovering in my livingroom I figured I would see if I could learn something about how it would fail. I didn't have to wait long. I flew it two more flights and it began to be a problem. I had to keep adding more and more right rudder trim until it was maxed out and still wasn't enough. I had to hold quite a bit of right stick to keep the tail straight and it would still sometimes suddenly jump to the left and I'd have to let off the stick to catch it. It got very bad quickly to the point where I could hardly fly it, I was focusing so much on trying to control the tail and was losing that battle.

I put a new stock tail motor in and left the trim where it was just to see. As soon as I started to power up slowly, the tail rotor started up real strong before the main rotor was even close to starting. I centered the rudder trim and started up again. It only needed a couple clicks to center it and I'm back to normal flying.

It would be nice if motors always failed in such a docile manner.

I'll continue to keep close tabs on motor run time and see how the next one fares. It's amazing how close my first one came to Gino's report of 10 hour average tail motor life. I may just make it a habit of replacing it at 10 hours, if I don't do the GWS mod first.

With the new motor, the tail movement is the same as when I first reported it. It's not bad and I do get used to it and automatically correct for it. Again, I think that's probably normal for this configuration.

Fun stuff!
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Old 02-10-2007, 06:07 AM
  #15  
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You can do the dual tail motor mod and tail will hold solid on climbs and last 20 hours.
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:17 AM
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fossoman
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Heres the settup I use which seems to work better than the orange blade settup I had it but the blades got heat from the shaft and flew off occasionally. I use the same motor cn12rxc but with the prop adaptor and larger blade the blade and adaptor come together. Available from tower hobby
Heres the prop and adaptor http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHHE2&P=0

Last edited by fossoman; 07-05-2007 at 12:26 AM. Reason: Added link
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:07 PM
  #17  
Flyingace451
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I guess everyone is loving that GWS motor/prop combo considering the motor is sold out at aero-fever.com. A heading hold, plus that motor/prop combo is probably the best thing you could ever do to your Blade...rock solid and still much cheaper than other helis. More parts availability too!
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Old 07-21-2007, 04:24 AM
  #18  
Dwntyme
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I just put a Head lock Gyro on My CPP (Align RCE-500X) and that took care of the tail drift when it climbs.
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