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Converting PZ Spitfire to brushless

Old 08-15-2008, 04:51 AM
  #101  
groundrushesup
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Originally Posted by Gohmer View Post
This part weights almost a full oz! A small piece of aircraft ply will do the same thing with a few holes in the right place. The lighter you can keep your Spitfire the better it will fly.

DetroitHawk is right about the thrust angles. My BL Spitfire conversion is straight ahead and flies great, same for my PZ FW-190.

I am curious why the designers saw fit to add the offset if it is superfluous.

Guess next time I bump into a PZ designer I can ask lol
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Old 08-15-2008, 02:10 PM
  #102  
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Went to visit my Dad in Yorkshire so took the Spitfire along and this morning went for a couple of quick sorties over Baildon Moor. My dad took some photos during the flight. I've shifted the CG back to 60mm from 50mm and this has reduced the nose heavy characteristics.
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Old 08-15-2008, 02:36 PM
  #103  
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Radweld,
That looks brilliant, nice pictures.
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:39 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
I am curious why the designers saw fit to add the offset if it is superfluous.

Guess next time I bump into a PZ designer I can ask lol

Some mentioned to counter the torque roll effect the geared 10x8 stock prop has, but honestly torque rolls happen to planes when they are flying slower. i.e. takeoffs and landings for the most part you just guide the plane out of them.

I did once have the 8x6 prop on my spitfire and i did a full roll off the hand launch. LOL that was the closest i ever came to crashing this plane good thing i throw the bird up on a 45degree, i turned around and calmly said "I always take off like that" LOL Somehow i doubt a few degrees down and to the right would of saved me, i just needed to quit throwing the plane like a sally.
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:48 PM
  #105  
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Hi Tony.
Excellent pics.
What camera was your Dad using?
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:54 PM
  #106  
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Hi Paul

Nikon D40 I bought him for Christmas lol, they came out well.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:12 AM
  #107  
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Hello guys im back and I have a bit of money to burn on the rest of my parts woohoo.
I didnt desert you,Ive been back and forward reading the new posts on this thread and studying the older ones that people helped me out with.DH,Radweld and Larry have been especially helpful along with the others.Anyway enough of the speech,if its ok with you boys Im going to post a few links and get you to tell me if I have picked the right remainding parts so here goes : ESC - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...link:middle:uk

ESC PROG CARD - http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=820

MOTOR MOUNT - http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop&item=756

BATTERY - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/11-1v-2200mAh-...d=p3286.c0.m14

CHARGER/BALANCER - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RC-POWER-BC6-L...d=p3286.c0.m14

The only things Im not sure on is the battery and charger/balancer as obviously these can be quite dangerous and you need to get the right ones.Just a few questions about them 1.is the mah on the battery too high for my setup?
2.is the 25c too much
3.will the charger/balancer take that battery ?
Thanks alot in advance guys and I hope Ive chosen the right stuff due to getting to grips with this and not just by luck lol.
Oh by the way my motor is this : http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=962
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:21 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
The only things Im not sure on is the battery and charger/balancer as obviously these can be quite dangerous and you need to get the right ones.
Indeed.

Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Just a few questions about them 1.is the mah on the battery too high for my setup?
Nope. The problem is that the seller deemed it necesary to obscure the label in two places. I'd be concerned about the veracity of the claimed
discharge rate, as thesedays you pay a premium for a higher number here. 12 GBP is, for me, worryingly inexpensive.

Originally Posted by joeted View Post
2.is the 25c too much
Generally no, this number cannot really be "too high" as a higher constant discharge rate will keep you from over-taxing your cells and having them puff on you, or worse. What this number can and usually means is that you can sustain higher levels of current (say, closer to WOT) for longer periods, but your overall flight time may be reduced. This is my understanding, at least. Looking at your motor I think you'll be fine.

That is, of course, if that cell really bench tests at 25c.

Originally Posted by joeted View Post
3.will the charger/balancer take that battery ?
Looks like a Chinese copy of the Bantam BC-6, which itself is a good charger. I've seen some laughable copies of it, though, so its a toss up. Caveat Emptor, man.

I'm sure they'll be others along to fill in my gaps and correct me if necessary. :P
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Old 08-18-2008, 05:10 AM
  #109  
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Ground,
How's the Spitfire upgrade coming along?
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Old 08-18-2008, 05:33 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by AETCBoom4 View Post
Ground,
How's the Spitfire upgrade coming along?

Still in the box unfortunately. I was on the road for a week earlier this month, and now I have a seemingly undending stream of family dropping in and out. Hope to get to it later this week though.
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:06 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
Still in the box unfortunately. I was on the road for a week earlier this month, and now I have a seemingly undending stream of family dropping in and out. Hope to get to it later this week though.
I did get the Align motor and the ESC in the mail though, looks nice. I think the first step is to beef up the GB like I did on My Mustang, by building in two sheetmetal spacers for the gearbox, one for the inside that goes over the spot where the pinion meets the spur, as well as for the motor side where you'd normally have to dremel out the ridge. The Align I find is probably just thin enough to mount without having to do that. Did you shim the motor on that lip at all? Any binding issues? I'm using the Robinson Racing 32p 12t pinion with some loctite, the 6-Series uses the same and has no problems.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:02 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Hello guys im back and I have a bit of money to burn on the rest of my parts woohoo.
I didnt desert you,Ive been back and forward reading the new posts on this thread and studying the older ones that people helped me out with.DH,Radweld and Larry have been especially helpful along with the others.Anyway enough of the speech,if its ok with you boys Im going to post a few links and get you to tell me if I have picked the right remainding parts so here goes : ESC - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...link:middle:uk
Hi Joeted, this is really expensive when you can buy almost the same thing for about 10 from here. http://www.giantcod.co.uk/product_in...0c4b0974af4862

I have one of these in My Spitfire and its running a Park480 fine.

Originally Posted by joeted View Post
You don't really need one of these, you can usually progam the ESC from the radio.

Originally Posted by joeted View Post
This is way too large i'm afraid, I used a mount similar to this

http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk...d.asp?id=22146

Originally Posted by joeted View Post
This battery doesnt look that good when you consider you can buy a 1800mah 25C battery from Giantcod for 20 that I know does the buisness. I have four of these and they outperform my twice as expensive E-flite Lipos

http://www.giantcod.co.uk/product_in...0c4b0974af4862

Originally Posted by joeted View Post
This doesnt look too bad, There are a bunch of chargers branded differently that are similar to these, CoreRC, Venon etc and I've had two CoreRC UDC20's and burtn out the balance circuit on both of them. If you want a charger like this, buy it in the UK, after you pay shipping and import duty, it's about the same price anyway and if it fails in the UK, you can return it.

Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Thats a really heavy motor, you have to be aware of the weight when you mod the Spit I know because I used an Eflite Park 480 and its real heavy. I had to stick more weight at the back to get it to balance.

http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=826

This is a motor ESC combo for 30 The motor isnt as powerfull but should still allow decent speed, the KV is a little too high so you will have to reduce the prop, probably an 8 or 9" prop.

Hope this helps.
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:15 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
You don't really need one of these, you can usually progam the ESC from the radio.

Yeah, it seems that ESC doesn't require a programming card.
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:31 PM
  #114  
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Ok thanks alot Radweld and Ground youve saved me alot of money by the sounds of it.If I got the battery with the 1800 mah does that mean that I wont get as long a flight time and power as a 2200 mah battery ? Also what is "WOT" please ?
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:37 PM
  #115  
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WOT is Wide Open Throttle, or when you have set the power to maximum. In theory a 2200mah will have longer duration than an 1800mah but usually the 2200's are larger and heavier so what you gain in duration you lose in the power required to fly the model.

The 1800mah cells can give you a good 10 mins flight at 75% throttle
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:59 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Ok thanks alot Radweld and Ground youve saved me alot of money by the sounds of it.If I got the battery with the 1800 mah does that mean that I wont get as long a flight time and power as a 2200 mah battery ? Also what is "WOT" please ?
You want the 2200 mah battery, and here is why

take 2200mah x 25C = 55amps of power you can draw safely.

The weight on your motor is perfect, you will have no problems with balancing this plane. Being nose heavy is easier to fix then being tail heavy.

When you get the ESC i have always read the box and it tells you how to program it, here is a preview of what to expect; it involves a lot of beeping.

Charger = get something you can charge several batteries at the same time. I didn't spend too much money on my charger but honestly it works great and does 2 at the same time.

The motor mount IDK about, it just seems like you have to bastardize it to attach to the airframe anyways, might as well make one yourself. Besides you want the motor to sit in just the right spot, making your own takes a little time but to me it was rather fun.


With that motor i would only suggest a 8x6 prop to start, the Kv rating is just awesome, you will have enough power to climb with ease and you will be able to gain more speed then this plane really should fly at. LOL
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:02 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post

The 1800mah cells can give you a good 10 mins flight at 75% throttle
that would depend on how many amps you are drawing.
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:34 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
You want the 2200 mah battery, and here is why

take 2200mah x 25C = 55amps of power you can draw safely.

The weight on your motor is perfect, you will have no problems with balancing this plane. Being nose heavy is easier to fix then being tail heavy.

When you get the ESC i have always read the box and it tells you how to program it, here is a preview of what to expect; it involves a lot of beeping.

Charger = get something you can charge several batteries at the same time. I didn't spend too much money on my charger but honestly it works great and does 2 at the same time.

The motor mount IDK about, it just seems like you have to bastardize it to attach to the airframe anyways, might as well make one yourself. Besides you want the motor to sit in just the right spot, making your own takes a little time but to me it was rather fun.


With that motor i would only suggest a 8x6 prop to start, the Kv rating is just awesome, you will have enough power to climb with ease and you will be able to gain more speed then this plane really should fly at. LOL
Thanks alot DH ive just ordered the top gun esc (sorry readweld lol) so all I need now is the battery and charger/balancer.Im a bit worried about choosing the wrong charger/balancer or am I just being too panicky.Ive just read up on charging lipos and it sounds pretty dangerous for people like me who havnt used lipos before,would it be wise to get something like this http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=801 ?
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:45 AM
  #119  
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That bag is not a bad idea depending on where you live i guess.

ok, i agree it always seems dangerous, and you never really know. These packs hold amazing amounts of energy. I am always at home where i can tend to them as they charge. If you live in a flat or a townhouse this could endanger others, so i'am alway am around.

I have never had an issue ever with charging in fact:





This happened over two years ago and the battery still works today.

just remember to be safe with them, and know when they aqre damaged they can react poorly. I however STILL have this battery as the black sheep and nothing has happened. I retired it, and now its only for my bench testing.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:04 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
I did get the Align motor and the ESC in the mail though, looks nice. I think the first step is to beef up the GB like I did on My Mustang, by building in two sheetmetal spacers for the gearbox, one for the inside that goes over the spot where the pinion meets the spur, as well as for the motor side where you'd normally have to dremel out the ridge. The Align I find is probably just thin enough to mount without having to do that. Did you shim the motor on that lip at all? Any binding issues? I'm using the Robinson Racing 32p 12t pinion with some loctite, the 6-Series uses the same and has no problems.
No issues or shimming. I just dropped it in there and went. How far are you from San Antonio? I'll be down that way on Wed-Fri for business, I could throw the Spit in the back of the car and take it with me.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:09 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by AETCBoom4 View Post
No issues or shimming. I just dropped it in there and went. How far are you from San Antonio? I'll be down that way on Wed-Fri for business, I could throw the Spit in the back of the car and take it with me.

I live in Boerne, which is ~20 miles NNW of the city on I-10. I work in the city though. Ahh I see what you meant, sorry. Looks like I am booked up with family crap through Friday, man. As much a hoot as it would be to get otgether and fly, I just don't think I can fit it in. I myself haven't flown but once in the last two weeks. Do you get ot SA frequently? If so we could plan something more than a few days out and we could do some flyin'.

Re: My Spit... I got off a little early today and put some work in on it. Here's a few minutes of video on the results.


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Old 08-19-2008, 03:48 AM
  #122  
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That brings back memories of my first powerup. I would highly recommend ditching that stock prop. Sounds like it started to cavitate at WOT. Do you have a wattmeter because with that prop, I'm sure the amps are through the ceiling.
A couple add ons I did was shim the wing down with a piece of cardboard because the plane will want to really pitch up high under WOT conditions.
I also adjusted the thrust angles a little by adding a single 4 mm washer to each screw on one side of the GB. Any plans to CF the wing? Hey, are you willing to fly a little formation
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Old 08-19-2008, 03:58 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by AETCBoom4 View Post
That brings back memories of my first powerup. I would highly recommend ditching that stock prop. Sounds like it started to cavitate at WOT. Do you have a wattmeter because with that prop, I'm sure the amps are through the ceiling.
A couple add ons I did was shim the wing down with a piece of cardboard because the plane will want to really pitch up high under WOT conditions.
I also adjusted the thrust angles a little by adding a single 4 mm washer to each screw on one side of the GB. Any plans to CF the wing? Hey, are you willing to fly a little formation
Thanks, all of those are things I will add to the list. As far as a Wattmeter, Funny you should ask, I ordered a Watts Up last night, should be here in a few days. I won't be flying with that prop for sure. I just need to figure out which one will be best. I know you fly MAS props - which one did you settle on again?

RE: Flying this week, sorry I didn't get it in the first post, I was a little scatterbrain this afternoon. But unfortunately it looks like my family visitors will keep me busy until the weekend. Cousins from Oklahoma and nephews from Dallas and Maryland, its a regular madhouse here this time of year.

But if you do find yourself in SA again, look me up, I'd be more than happy to do a little formation flying!
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:03 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by AETCBoom4 View Post
That brings back memories of my first powerup. I would highly recommend ditching that stock prop. Sounds like it started to cavitate at WOT.
Yeah it did cavitate like crazy.

Originally Posted by AETCBoom4 View Post
I also adjusted the thrust angles a little by adding a single 4 mm washer to each screw on one side of the GB.
On the weak side, right? So the GB was more straight on, or did you make the thrust angle more asymmetrical?
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Old 08-19-2008, 04:06 AM
  #125  
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The Wattmeter is a very handy device indeed! Touching the motor to determine if it hot is a good idea...except when the motor isn't manufactured correctly, or built wrong...I actually got a burn from a cheapo Chinese motor!

groundrushesup, what is the kv of your motor?
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