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Converting PZ Spitfire to brushless

Old 08-02-2008, 11:42 AM
  #51  
joeted
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
Binding is linking the 2.4ghz RX to the radio, traditionally with FM or AM based system you would like the RX to the radio by using matched crystals (the frequency or channel) but 2.4ghz being digital can store the UID (Unique ID) of the RX in the radio to ensure it only sends signals to this RX. Also known as model match.

I When you reverse a channel, up might become down or vise versa, on Spektrums, if you reverse the throttle, it can switch on to WOT which isn't good.

Although you could use a 5000mah battery, the major problem here would be the size of the battery, you probably wouldn't be able to fit it into the plane and the extra weight would upset it's dynamics.

Currently, the largest lipos you can safely use are about 2100mah, anything larger doesn't fit well and weighs too much.
Gotcha, thanks alot Radweld,just been reading up on binding in the dx6i manual so i should be able to work that out
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:19 PM
  #52  
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What I did was plug the battery onto the plane, and started playing with the radio. The throttle stick was in the down or off position. My ailerons were backwards, so I jumped into the reverse programming screen on the DX6i. I accidentally reversed "throttle" which now made the stick in the wide open position. Since the plane was "hot" it blasted off! Actually now that I remember the incident, I think I had the prop off and just the prop adapter was spinning wild. Otherwise the plane would have took off across the room.

Lesson learned was I will always do my testing with the prop off or the plane secured!
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:06 PM
  #53  
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I think the correct RC term is "armed" not "hot". When you plug in the battery on a plane with a DX6i, the throttle stick must be in the full off position, or the ESC will not "arm" the motor. On my plane if throttle is on a bit, the ESC will just keep beeping at me until I push the stick to off.
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:13 AM
  #54  
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Default Spitfire Wing Loading after BL Upgrade

Any of you folks who've upgraded the Spit to a BL setup had issues with wing stability, to wit, folding? I have a P-51 with an E-Flite 6 series inrunner on the stock gearbox, and I felt it was prudent, with the experiences of those before me in hand, to add a CF truss system to handle excess wing loading at speed. Has this come up with the Spitfire airfoil too?

godspeed,
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Old 08-03-2008, 05:22 AM
  #55  
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It seems most people put a carbon fiber spar in the top of each wing. I made mine cross in the middle, and glued them together with epoxy.
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Old 08-03-2008, 07:05 AM
  #56  
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Spitfire wing is less likely to fold because its solid foam unlike the P51 however they still can fold and there are plenty of reports of them doing so. I used to run mine on a 2200kv in runner and didnt bother, I jus limited the stress on the wing when ever possible.
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry G View Post
It seems most people put a carbon fiber spar in the top of each wing. I made mine cross in the middle, and glued them together with epoxy.
Im sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting until i can order my esc etc and its so annoying i just wanna get on with it.Have u got any pics Larry of your carbon fibre rod set up and could u give me insructions on how to do it please ? like how far into the wing do i cut and how do u cover the wing back up once youve installed them etc.coz im definately gonna do that , also what size rods should i get ? Thanks buddy .
ps is there any little simple mods i can do while im waiting ?
Ive also got a super cub so i could mess around with that too if anyones got any mod suggestions for that too
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:04 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
Spitfire wing is less likely to fold because its solid foam unlike the P51 however they still can fold and there are plenty of reports of them doing so. I used to run mine on a 2200kv in runner and didnt bother, I jus limited the stress on the wing when ever possible.

Solid foam eh? Interesting. I suppose thats because there was less of a dihedral to deal with on the spit... or maybe the complexity of the Mustang's airfoil design made it necessary to go hollow. is there one single aileron servo with thin music wire lines like the P-51? I gotta go take a gander next time I am in the LHS.

I am seriously considering snatching up a Spit Airframe whenever I can and going BL with it too. I've heard its more relaxing to fly than my p-51, and I have a blast with her already.

cheers,
gru
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:10 PM
  #59  
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Yep, the same single servo, not a great design and the wire can have quite a bit of friction. I have a spare wing I'm in the process of modifying to twin servos out by the ailerons. Just had to dig out the foam and stick in some small servos. The only problem I have now is that I removed the underside covering and can't find a covering that's similar in colour. What I might end up doing is using brown paper and PVA glue and then painting it. Lad in my LHS says the light green is Humbrol colour No 90.

http://www.humbrol.com/paints/acryli...crylic-tinlet/
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Im sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting until i can order my esc etc and its so annoying i just wanna get on with it.Have u got any pics Larry of your carbon fibre rod set up and could u give me insructions on how to do it please ? like how far into the wing do i cut and how do u cover the wing back up once youve installed them etc.coz im definately gonna do that , also what size rods should i get ? Thanks buddy .
ps is there any little simple mods i can do while im waiting ?
Ive also got a super cub so i could mess around with that too if anyones got any mod suggestions for that too
See this thread by Detroit Hawk; http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23268

Where I differed from his design is he has two rods ending at the servo in the middle, I put mine back just a tad behind the servo and crossed them, then glued the ends together with a wad of epoxy. You can't use a single straight rod because of the dihederal. I used 4mm O.D. carbon fiber hollow tube, not a solid rod.

Cut the skin with an exacto knife and peel it back. You can iron it back down with a covering iron which will re-activate the glue on the skin, or simply use clear packing tape to cover the incision. Watch the heat, too much melts the foam and turns it all bumpy!

The second spar further back is probably not manditory, I put a short piece of the tube back there because I was re-constructing a wing that had the right wing torn clean off and was missing chunks of foam I had to patch in, so I felt it was weaker than normal.

I used a soldering iron to melt the slot, thats kind of messy, I'll try with a knife next time. Just deep enough so the tube is flush with the top surface.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
Yep, the same single servo, not a great design and the wire can have quite a bit of friction. I have a spare wing I'm in the process of modifying to twin servos out by the ailerons. Just had to dig out the foam and stick in some small servos. The only problem I have now is that I removed the underside covering and can't find a covering that's similar in colour. What I might end up doing is using brown paper and PVA glue and then painting it. Lad in my LHS says the light green is Humbrol colour No 90.

http://www.humbrol.com/paints/acryli...crylic-tinlet/

Ah so the covering itself came off as one piece? That is interesting because it seems the P-51 wings foam is more of a melted-into-plastic layer of the foam that makes up the wing. All it does is tear off very well. :P

Over at the P-51 threads on RCU and RCG, a bunch of guys have done the CF mod with some success -- if you crack open the Mustang's wing, there is a polystyrene insert shaped like the cross pattern in the image below which holds the servo and acts as a rather anemic support for the airfoil. Consequently, there is plenty of space behind it to add a standalone spar.





I used 4 2mm solid CF rods laid in parallel for my wing, using the clipped ends from a former PS wing insert to hold the rods in place. Others used a shorter but stiffer shaft from a CF arrow (top image), but I thought I could get more length out of it if I made it longer, a little less rigid, and able to actually conform to the dihedral (the thin rods actually camber a bit now that the wing is back together) All in all it works very well, and I am no longer living in fear of folding the wing, which I have seen happen before my own eyes. No bueno.

Yeah I know this is out of context for this thread but it is interesting to see how its done on other PZ models of the same class.

As for the two servo idea for the ailerons - I have given that plenty of thought actually, and may buy a new P-51 wing to test it out. That is, after I buy my Spit!

Oh one other question - What is the gear ratio on the stock GB? Cant seem to locate that tidbit in my travels.

godpseed,
gru
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:52 AM
  #62  
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Hmmm 3:1 seams to stick in my mind.
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
Hmmm 3:1 seams to stick in my mind.
i am pretty sure it's 3:1, i seem to remember people attempting to put the typhoon motor in this plane but the typhoon has an 8:1 ratio so that setup was drawing far too many amps.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:20 PM
  #64  
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I started to modify my Spitfire over the weekend for a Brushless outrunner, even though my farther worked with wood all his life, non of his skills rubbed off into me so I decided to use existing technology. I ended up using a Great Planes Small motor mount fixed to a pair of birch stips screwed to the fuse, note that the top screws were countersunk to allow the motor mount to sit flush onto the strips of birch. I then mounted the 200w outrunner to the motor mount.

I have used an E-flite prop adapter but I chose a prop a little too large at 10x7 lol it pulls 26A @ 297W and the motor is only rated at 16A so I will need to change that. I have a cheap 9x4.7 that generates 16.5A @200W so I will order another APC at this size.

Only problem i have is I cant get the spinner I bought to fit round the prop adapter because the APC blades ar quite large, unless I made a mistake here.
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:41 PM
  #65  
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Smile Axi Conversion

Here's what I did to my PZ Spitfire this morning. Small piece of eighth inch aircraft plywood mounted to the stock motor mount holes on the firewall and two stick mounts with a short piece of SS fuselage between them. Used the stock spinner, drilled out and shaved to fit the 10X4.7 APC prop. Axi 2808/24 with a 30A Jedi Advance controller. Balanced at 2.5" back of the LE (where the stock motor did with a 2100 lipo) with the battery in the same position.

Lost two ounces and gained 100 watts.

Flies great! Needed two clicks of up trim from the stock motor flight trim settings.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:05 PM
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Yeah, I like that.
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:53 PM
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Those are some good looking motors guys, good to see others taking more of an interest in hotroding this airframe, it really is alot of fun to fly. These different motor mounts are awesome, i used maple to build mine but those metal mounts seem nifty, just make sure you check the COG before taking it up.

You will also notice how the brushless motor makes this plane very quiet.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
I started to modify my Spitfire over the weekend for a Brushless outrunner, even though my farther worked with wood all his life, non of his skills rubbed off into me so I decided to use existing technology. I ended up using a Great Planes Small motor mount fixed to a pair of birch stips screwed to the fuse, note that the top screws were countersunk to allow the motor mount to sit flush onto the strips of birch. I then mounted the 200w outrunner to the motor mount.
Interesting. Do you have an a Idea what the AUW is with a generic/standard 3S 2000mAh LiPo? Is that a Turnigy? If so, what model?

Like I might've blurted out before - I went with the E-flite 6-series 2700Kv inrunner in the stock gearbox for my Mustang; the plane is finicky as it is and monkeying with the thrust offset by going with an outrunner was something I did not want to risk - knowing full well I might only have one test flight to get it right lol


I'm definitely interested in going outrunner when I pick up my Spit now. Thanks to both you and Gohmer for the inspiration.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:27 PM
  #69  
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Ground:
I have also done a BL inrunner/CF wing set up on my Spit that is even hotter than my PZ P-51. Pm for info if interested.

Also, thanks for the credit on the wing reinforcement.


Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
Interesting. Do you have an a Idea what the AUW is with a generic/standard 3S 2000mAh LiPo? Is that a Turnigy? If so, what model?

Like I might've blurted out before - I went with the E-flite 6-series 2700Kv inrunner in the stock gearbox for my Mustang; the plane is finicky as it is and monkeying with the thrust offset by going with an outrunner was something I did not want to risk - knowing full well I might only have one test flight to get it right lol


I'm definitely interested in going outrunner when I pick up my Spit now. Thanks to both you and Gohmer for the inspiration.
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Old 08-06-2008, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AETCBoom4 View Post
Ground:
I have also done a BL inrunner/CF wing set up on my Spit that is even hotter than my PZ P-51. Pm for info if interested.

Also, thanks for the credit on the wing reinforcement.
No sweat. Thanks for the inspiration. PM sent.

gru
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:43 PM
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As per AETCBoom4, this sweet little outrunner-in-a-can and ESC setup is a drop-in solution for the existing Spit, FW-109 and Mustang Gearbox, and at this price ($50) it is a steal.

Just a heads up for the PZ fans out there!
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
As per AETCBoom4, this sweet little outrunner-in-a-can and ESC setup is a drop-in solution for the existing Spit, FW-109 and Mustang Gearbox, and at this price ($50) it is a steal.

Just a heads up for the PZ fans out there!

Who told you that was a drop in and do you have any idea how many amps that would draw?
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:05 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
Who told you that was a drop in and do you have any idea how many amps that would draw?

Me... It is a direct drop in. You use a Robinson Racing Pinion 32P 12T s the replacement pinion. Pulls around 400watts with a 38 amp draw on an APC 9x9E prop. I get about 10 minutes flying time with throttle management. Batts are a TP extremes. I have been flying this setup for about a year now.
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:38 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
i am pretty sure it's 3:1, i seem to remember people attempting to put the typhoon motor in this plane but the typhoon has an 8:1 ratio so that setup was drawing far too many amps.
i've been busy modding pz spits, 190s and mustang for a few months. i had a buddy/machinist with a 5-axis lathe re-make/engineer the motor mount/gearbox out of aluminum to replace the rather fragile stock system.
i use a HET Typhoon 3W motor with a 12-tooth/32 pitch pinion, 40 amp esc and a smaller prop.
these planes are extremely fast, almost too fast for thier own good.
no, i do not have any more gearboxes. he wants a bulk order to make it worth his while.
in any case, this setup allows you to retain the front spinner and shave quite a bit of weight.
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:45 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by AETCBoom4 View Post
Me... It is a direct drop in. You use a Robinson Racing Pinion 32P 12T s the replacement pinion. Pulls around 400watts with a 38 amp draw on an APC 9x9E prop. I get about 10 minutes flying time with throttle management. Batts are a TP extremes. I have been flying this setup for about a year now.
Uhh, Him. muahahaha. Mine is in the mail.
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