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Art-Tech Corsair

Old 05-24-2008, 11:42 PM
  #101  
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Hey FT! Glad to hear you had a successful re-maiden with the F4U. I got the P-51 I ordered from Venom on Friday, and had it together and ready to fly later that evening, complete with all decals applied.

I maidened it today at the soccer fields, despite some pretty stiff winds (10-20mph). I had two successful flights with it, barring two minor nose-ins into the soccer turf on landing. Landing gear is utter crap--about the same as a stock GWS Slow Stick, complete with crappy thin plastic wheels. (I might just convert it to a belly flopper and be done with it.) But after flying the Mustang, I can see why so many people destroy these on the first flight, particularly when it's their first or even second plane. VERY responsive roll controls and WEAK elevator. The weak elevator was actually the only thing I didn't like about the way it flew. I've got the push rod set to the second most sensitive notch in the control horn--I think I'll move it to the innermost notch to get some more throw. I'd hate to hit a gust coming out a loop and not have enough up elevator to get it up in time. But wow--that 3900kv inrunner & gearbox combo (turning a 1080 prop) is packing some crazy power. Popped in a 1500mah 3S and let 'er rip. It'll go straight up all day, even in the gusty wind I was flying in today.

One problem I ran into, though, was that the big red spinner was somewhat deformed when I got it out of the box, and I haven't yet been able to get it back into balanced shape again, and every time I go full throttle, the vibration from the prop/spinner resonates the whole frame and kills the rpms.

So I haven't been able to get a good idea of how fast the thing will hit at top end yet. I'd be surprised if it didn't top out at at least 60-70. For reference, I flew my F27C brushless right after the P-51, and for some reason it didn't seem nearly as fast as it does when I fly it right after flying my Slow Stick with a 2S lipo.

I have to say, though, that after hearing Matt H's plane fly, I'm not at all happy with the whiny, screeching noise the gearbox in my P-51 makes. I hope to get to upgrade it to a Cobri and tri-prop at some point. Which raises a question--if the plane is turning a 1080 prop right now, what does that translate to in a tri-prop?
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Old 05-25-2008, 12:19 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
Hey FT! Glad to hear you had a successful re-maiden with the F4U. I got the P-51 I ordered from Venom on Friday, and had it together and ready to fly later that evening, complete with all decals applied.

I maidened it today at the soccer fields, despite some pretty stiff winds (10-20mph). I had two successful flights with it, barring two minor nose-ins into the soccer turf on landing. Landing gear is utter crap--about the same as a stock GWS Slow Stick, complete with crappy thin plastic wheels. (I might just convert it to a belly flopper and be done with it.) But after flying the Mustang, I can see why so many people destroy these on the first flight, particularly when it's their first or even second plane. VERY responsive roll controls and WEAK elevator. The weak elevator was actually the only thing I didn't like about the way it flew. I've got the push rod set to the second most sensitive notch in the control horn--I think I'll move it to the innermost notch to get some more throw. I'd hate to hit a gust coming out a loop and not have enough up elevator to get it up in time. But wow--that 3900kv inrunner & gearbox combo (turning a 1080 prop) is packing some crazy power. Popped in a 1500mah 3S and let 'er rip. It'll go straight up all day, even in the gusty wind I was flying in today.

One problem I ran into, though, was that the big red spinner was somewhat deformed when I got it out of the box, and I haven't yet been able to get it back into balanced shape again, and every time I go full throttle, the vibration from the prop/spinner resonates the whole frame and kills the rpms.

So I haven't been able to get a good idea of how fast the thing will hit at top end yet. I'd be surprised if it didn't top out at at least 60-70. For reference, I flew my F27C brushless right after the P-51, and for some reason it didn't seem nearly as fast as it does when I fly it right after flying my Slow Stick with a 2S lipo.

I have to say, though, that after hearing Matt H's plane fly, I'm not at all happy with the whiny, screeching noise the gearbox in my P-51 makes. I hope to get to upgrade it to a Cobri and tri-prop at some point. Which raises a question--if the plane is turning a 1080 prop right now, what does that translate to in a tri-prop?
I had vibration problems with my EF P-47 w/ a Park 400 inrunner turning a MAS 11x7 through a gearbox. I balanced the prop perfectly and still it vabrated badly from 1/3 to 3/4 throttle. I reinforced the stick mount, which helped, but it never went away altogether until I threw the MAS prop in the garbage. Now it purrs with an E-Flite 11x7 SF.

If you switch to a 3 blader, you are going to loose some speed. To keep the amps about the same, you will probably have to go down an inch in both pitch speed and diameter: 9x7x3. Just a guess though. Only way to know is to test it on a power meter and in the air.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:34 AM
  #103  
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I had a chance for a quick maiden on my Corsair today...gorgeous.

Zero trim. No clicks of nothing. Really! Flew around for about six minutes, then pulled into a long, curving carrier approach and set her down on the mains right on the centerline. I love this plane. I especially love the prop.
It took five days for Nitroplanes to deliver, $199 with free shipping, and not a scratch on it. Took fifteen minutes to get together, everything included, no glue required. Only 8AA batteries.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:49 AM
  #104  
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Great to hear your maiden went so well. I got another flight in on mine right around sunset. What a great flying airplane!

FYI, HC stock is down to 9. They could be gone by morning.
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Old 05-25-2008, 07:07 AM
  #105  
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I don't know the stock level at Nitroplanes, but I know they order in much, much larger quantities than Hobby City, by a mile. As in, containers full of stuff at one time. They have the Corsair tucked away somewhere on the back pages of the website, so I don't know how many are selling, they ought to put it in page one.

I checked the pricing...HC is $162 with shipping, but without the TX and RX(which many don't want, but I am using at the moment), and Nitroplanes is $199. $37 more, but you get a TX and RX. That's a difference, yes. But, to me, I'd rather spend more than risk another bad experience with HC.
By the way, the packaging on the Corsair is superb, I would expect you could get it anywhere in the world without damage, so at least that part is not risky.

Anyway...love the plane. I only wish they had passed a lousy sheet of sandpaper over the wing before painting it, as some of my molding nubs have broken off and left white spots.
Otherwise, construction was perfect, everything fit perfectly, there were no problems, quality was splendid, lots of clever engineering.
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Old 05-25-2008, 03:55 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by easytiger View Post
...love the plane. I only wish they had passed a lousy sheet of sandpaper over the wing before painting it, as some of my molding nubs have broken off and left white spots.
Otherwise, construction was perfect, everything fit perfectly, there were no problems, quality was splendid, lots of clever engineering.
Agreed on the engineering. It's very nicely designed and built. For the white nubs, a blue Sharpie will cover those right up. I took an Exacto knife and cut off the ones that hadn't already broken off then colored over them with the marker. There's a lot of them though. It takes awhile!
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:00 PM
  #107  
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Great idea! In the film industry, they call fixing something with a sharpie "greeking it out". Don't know why. But it happens constantly, like removing a brand name from something, etc...
I do it with models, but only with black. Never even thought of blue. Duh!
Anyway...problem solved, thanks!
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:24 PM
  #108  
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Yeah mine shipped yesterday! Anyone know how long it takes for it to get to the states? I think I saw two weeks in the rc groups thread. If it shows up undamaged I'll be amazed.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:48 PM
  #109  
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I would not worry about damage. Art-Tech did a great job packaging this one, in a custom-molded foam box with a special spot for everything, and everything is bagged seperately, taped down, etcetera. Even HobbyPity cannot screw that up. Packaging counts, and it costs good money to do it right. I'd rather pay a little more than receive a foamie plane that arrives in rather used condition, which has happened to me before.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:37 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by rleed View Post
Yeah mine shipped yesterday! Anyone know how long it takes for it to get to the states? I think I saw two weeks in the rc groups thread. If it shows up undamaged I'll be amazed.
I have ordered airplanes from HC twice, and both times they arrived in 10 or 12 days with no damage. Clearing customs is what takes most of the time. Once it's on a plane out of HK, it only takes 2 or 3 more days. At least that is my experience shipping to Seattle.
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Old 05-29-2008, 04:56 PM
  #111  
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Thanks, maybe our weather will calm down a bit by then. Lots of Wind, rain and severe storms here in Iowa the past couple weeks.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:13 PM
  #112  
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Looks like Hobbycity has discontinued selling the Art Tech Corsair If you already ordered one, be thankful! It was such a good seller that I'm sure it will be available elsewhere, but maybe only as an RTF with POS Tx.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:51 PM
  #113  
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Yeah, they got caught by Art-Tech selling for below MAP. Below cost, even. They were treating the new F-18 as a loss leader to get people into the store and buy batteries and such. Actually selling it for less than wholesale cost. Which is against most dealer agreements, and bad business anyway.

I am happy with the $199 price from Nitroplanes. The TX they provided is actually good quality, and the RX is, belive it or not, dual conversion. Which means there is no real need to throw it away and replace it, I am still flying with the original TX and RX. I will probably swap it out for a Spektrum RX, but not because the original equipement is so bad, but because I don't need a freq pin and I don't need to carry a second TX then.
I would certainly prefer if Nitroplanes stocked it without the TX and RX for $179, sure.
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:31 PM
  #114  
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Great so Art-tech is doing Price fixing... That sucks....

PS. Their $200 RTF Parkflyers.com Daredevil Biplane Sucks...

SK
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:23 PM
  #115  
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From what I've heard over at RCG, AT has discontinued selling to HC because a certain US vendor has complained and threatened to cancel orders. Sure enough, the only AT planes listed at hobbycity are in stock. No back ordered items are listed.

That's bad news for the price we will pay, but if it's Hobby Lobby that is raising the fuss, then maybe we can get some decent customer service in return for the extra cost.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:35 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by ministeve2003 View Post
Great so Art-tech is doing Price fixing... That sucks....

PS. Their $200 RTF Parkflyers.com Daredevil Biplane Sucks...

SK
Nope.
Price fixing is when Art-Tech, Starmax, and all the other companies get together and decide what the price should be.
What this is is Minimum Advertised Price and Minimum Selling Price. When you agree to become a dealer, you agree to not advertise or sell below a certain price. Violate that agreement, you can be sued or cut off.
This is pretty standard practice in the hobby business. As well as most other businesses. Be it Ford cars or Sony Televisions. Why?
Because it's no sweat to find someone who can throw up a website and sell a few hundred pieces for a few dollars' profit. Or, like in the case of HobbyCity and the F-18, use your product as a marketing tool to get people into the store so you can sell other stuff. The problem is it devalues the product. Now everybody thinks the ArtTech F-18 should only sell for $99. HobbyCity sold, what, 24 of them for that price?
So who is going to buy a container full of 600 of them now? Why would they? So they can lose $20 600 times?
Without those orders for 600 planes at a time, how is ArtTech going to pay for their investment in tooling in this model? By selling five at a time to internet dealers?
At $200, there is enough room for a distributor to advertise, support, stock, ship, and actually make a profit. God forbid someone actually make a profit. Before you say "Greedy Hobby Lobby is making a fortune!", keep in mind that HL has a rather large overhead. I'm sure they are a profitable company, but they don't get to mark things up and keep all the markup, not by a long shot. The reason they are able to order planes 300 at a time is that they spend a lot on advertising, which is WHY they are selling planes by the hundreds. Which is why companies like ArtTech or Starmax can actually make a living and have money to develop new products. It's not from Hobby City, selling a handful, it's from Hobby Lobby, people like that, who actually put money into promotion and support and sell some serious volume of stuff, both direct, and through their dealer network, and through hundreds of hobby stores.
I certainly don't speak for HL or ArtTech or anybody else, but this is kind of basic business stuff, and I am surprised that you would not be aware of these pretty standard things that go on that let businesses actually stay in business.
It's not illegal...it's not even immoral. I sell you 200 airplanes. I give you a good deal. We have a contract. The contract says you cannot advertise the product for less than $x dollars, and you cannot sell it, even as an unadvertised special, for less than $y dollars. And you cannot ship it to America, because Z company has an exclusive there. And you cannot reveal to anyone what your wholesale price is.
And if you don't like those rules, you can simply not buy from me. What's the problem?

Anyway...I only have these two ArtTech planes, and I like them both, particularly the Corsair. I don't know much about what they supply to other people, like Venom. Sure looks to me like that "Daredevil Biplane" is the ArtTech Pitts with different decals. Don't know how it flies or anything about it. What Venom ordered and is willing to pay for, quality-wise, may be different from what Hobby Lobby or somebody else might insist on and pay for, quality-wise, from ArtTech.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:39 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
From what I've heard over at RCG, AT has discontinued selling to HC because a certain US vendor has complained and threatened to cancel orders. Sure enough, the only AT planes listed at hobbycity are in stock. No back ordered items are listed.

That's bad news for the price we will pay, but if it's Hobby Lobby that is raising the fuss, then maybe we can get some decent customer service in return for the extra cost.
You cannot say it was Hobby Lobby. ArtTEch supplies many companies. Certainly, if I were Hobby Lobby, you can bet I would not stand for it for one second, and it's not fair for anyone to paint HL as the bad guy in this situation. Blame Hobby City, they have a long history of greed and bad business practices.
HL offers good service, parts, and promotion. HL won't tell you to go screw yourself if you get a bad product, like Hobby City will. Get burned by Hobby City a few times, it may outweigh whatever "savings" you had in the past. That was my experience. But beyond that...a dealer who cannot honor their agreements, and will burn bridges for a quick buck, well...
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:50 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by easytiger View Post
You cannot say it was Hobby Lobby. ArtTEch supplies many companies. Certainly, if I were Hobby Lobby, you can bet I would not stand for it for one second, and it's not fair for anyone to paint HL as the bad guy in this situation. Blame Hobby City, they have a long history of greed and bad business practices.
HL offers good service, parts, and promotion. HL won't tell you to go screw yourself if you get a bad product, like Hobby City will. Get burned by Hobby City a few times, it may outweigh whatever "savings" you had in the past. That was my experience. But beyond that...a dealer who cannot honor their agreements, and will burn bridges for a quick buck, well...
I didn't say it was Hobby Lobby. Nor do I blame anyone for asking that a contract be enforced.

What I do know is that HL is one of very few US retailers that sells ArtTech planes. And I also know that HL is well known for good customer service. I have bought from them and have sung their praises on here many times before. I hope they do start selling the Corsair, because even if it costs more, dealing with a US seller that offers good customer service will be worth the extra cost.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:17 PM
  #119  
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Price-fixing can also involve any agreement to fix, peg, discount or stabilize prices (wiki)
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:43 PM
  #120  
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Last week I saw the Corsair back in stock at HC, but it was just after coming back from an expensive weekend away and couldn't justify spending another $150...darn.

I just really want a Corsair for my first warbird. Anyone know of another nice looking, nice flying corsair out there? There's something about the GWS corsair that looks a little off...
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:50 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by aero_k View Post
Last week I saw the Corsair back in stock at HC, but it was just after coming back from an expensive weekend away and couldn't justify spending another $150...darn.

I just really want a Corsair for my first warbird. Anyone know of another nice looking, nice flying corsair out there? There's something about the GWS corsair that looks a little off...
If you can wait a few months the Parkzone Corsair will be a great option. Meanwhile I'll bet someone is going to start selling the AT Corsair without a radio. It has sold too well at HC for others to not have noticed.
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:57 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
I didn't say it was Hobby Lobby. Nor do I blame anyone for asking that a contract be enforced.

What I do know is that HL is one of very few US retailers that sells ArtTech planes. And I also know that HL is well known for good customer service. I have bought from them and have sung their praises on here many times before. I hope they do start selling the Corsair, because even if it costs more, dealing with a US seller that offers good customer service will be worth the extra cost.
I didn't say you did blame HL...I just wanted to make that clear, as some others were majorly hinting that it was HL. I have not asked, and do not know. But any dealer, HL or anybody else, would have every right to drop a dime on HC on this issue, they can and should.
You said it about service...some dealers add value, some do not. HL is one that does. So at least if they cost more, you get something for it.
I think, though, there are more people selling Art-Tech than you realize.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:19 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by aero_k View Post
Last week I saw the Corsair back in stock at HC, but it was just after coming back from an expensive weekend away and couldn't justify spending another $150...darn.

I just really want a Corsair for my first warbird. Anyone know of another nice looking, nice flying corsair out there? There's something about the GWS corsair that looks a little off...
You can get the Art Tech one from Nitroplanes.

As far as HL carrying this one, maybe, but I seriously doubt it, as Nitro already has it. But maybe.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:30 PM
  #124  
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You know, I hate to say this, but seriously, easyt--you seem to have an almost irrational hatred of HobbyCity. I'm not saying that the complaints some people have with them aren't legitimate (lousy customer service, et. al)--they certainly are no where near close to the service you get from a Hobby-Lobby or HeadsUpRC.

But there's no denying that they fill a vital low-cost market space that has enabled lots of us to afford this hobby when otherwise we couldn't. To be honest, when I was first looking at the jump to LiPo and before I even knew about HobbyCity, I looked at the prices on many sites LIKE Hobby-Lobby and even in the store at my local HobbyTown, and just thought, "Screw it--I can't afford this."

But after someone recommended me to HC and their LoongMax and Zippy lipos, I reconsidered and haven't looked back. Also, how many flyers have benefitted from being able to pick up a cheap $15 TP2408-21 combo for their Slow Stick or other low-end ARF?

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that Hobby-Lobby's prices are fair because of the service you receive. Well, I think the inverse is also more or less true with HC--their service (or lack thereof) is proportional to the price you pay. And for people like me who would typically rather just take their chances with a low cost product and then try to work through any "support" issues on my own should they arise, HC works very well for me in that regard.

In fact, the only time I've had to DEAL with customer support since getting into this hobby was with Nitroplanes/Raidentech when they sent me a Predator RQ-1L without a receiver or vertical stabilizer. And, looking over now at the homemade vert sitting snuggly in my Pred, I'll let you guess how that worked out. But I'm fine with that--that's just the risk I accepted when I bought from a low-cost re-seller.

The Wal-Marts, Nitroplanes, and HCs of the world definitely have their space in the economy.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:39 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
You know, I hate to say this, but seriously, easyt--you seem to have an almost irrational hatred of HobbyCity. I'm not saying that the complaints some people have with them aren't legitimate (lousy customer service, et. al)--they certainly are no where near close to the service you get from a Hobby-Lobby or HeadsUpRC.

But there's no denying that they fill a vital low-cost market space that has enabled lots of us to afford this hobby when otherwise we couldn't. To be honest, when I was first looking at the jump to LiPo and before I even knew about HobbyCity, I looked at the prices on many sites LIKE Hobby-Lobby and even in the store at my local HobbyTown, and just thought, "Screw it--I can't afford this."

But after someone recommended me to HC and their LoongMax and Zippy lipos, I reconsidered and haven't looked back. Also, how many flyers have benefitted from being able to pick up a cheap $15 TP2408-21 combo for their Slow Stick or other low-end ARF?

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that Hobby-Lobby's prices are fair because of the service you receive. Well, I think the inverse is also more or less true with HC--their service (or lack thereof) is proportional to the price you pay. And for people like me who would typically rather just take their chances with a low cost product and then try to work through any "support" issues on my own should they arise, HC works very well for me in that regard.

In fact, the only time I've had to DEAL with customer support since getting into this hobby was with Nitroplanes/Raidentech when they sent me a Predator RQ-1L without a receiver or vertical stabilizer. And, looking over now at the homemade vert sitting snuggly in my Pred, I'll let you guess how that worked out. But I'm fine with that--that's just the risk I accepted when I bought from a low-cost re-seller.

The Wal-Marts, Nitroplanes, and HCs of the world definitely have their space in the economy.
You are right, I do have a grudge against Hobbycity, and enjoy watching them suffer, and enjoy warning people against them. It goes in phases...I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about HC at all, then I got emailed last night with the info about the ArtTEch thing, which I kept to myself, until someone posted in this thread that HC was somehow the poor, slighted bad guy. Which ain't the case. I also posted a thing about RVM shop versus HC this morning(see the general posts thread) because RVM sent an email ad to me and it reminded me of them. No, it's not really an obsession of mine, HC, but since the subject was brought up....
Nitroplanes certainly has customer service issues to work out...they are far from perfect. But their issues are very different from those of HC.
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