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Gas Prices / Economy

Old 11-25-2008, 09:55 PM
  #526  
caltrop
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Unhappy Layoff

WOW! didn't see that coming.

Now I have loads of time to work on my planes but I can't afford the parts...

I guess I can get those kits I have together and get motors and stuff later. Glue is affordable but the ESC & motor will have to wait. And in between I can sniff the glue... Too bad you don't lacquer (dope) the wings like they used too - you could get real high back then. Yes I'm an old...

I did get a plane converted over to a variable pitch prop system I had. Just waiting for a nice day to fly it.
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Old 11-25-2008, 10:32 PM
  #527  
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Originally Posted by Voyager2lcats View Post
Murph, unfortunately you are dead on the money (bad pun, I know). Deflation is a very realistic concern that is probably unstoppable. We have had deficit spending since the 1970s by the Congresses (other than 4 years 1998-2001) so we have a lot of time to catch up on. Combine that with all the other financial issues and currency devaluation is going to happen as our lending nations reduce the purchase of our debt issues. Sorry to go "all economic" on you, but I have a minor in economics.
Cool, What do you know about the Federal Reserve System. Just wondering.
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:34 AM
  #528  
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Jimmy Dean is at $1.59 for no corn gas with $2.49 for diesel. Of course I just filled up yesterday.
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Old 11-26-2008, 03:27 AM
  #529  
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Just filled the Hummer at $1.939/gallon....
Lowest price I have paid in California in a super long time, probably more than ten years.
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:18 AM
  #530  
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Murph (just saw your post), that is a question that would take some time to answer! You probably know all the basics about they set the discount loan rates for the nation's regional Federal Reserve banks, each bank has a cash reserve requirement also set by "the Fed". Monetary policy is their reason for being. Need I mention that they took a hands-off approach (i.e. don't attempt to regulate because it might cause an investment panic) to collateralized debt obligations starting with the Clinton administration thus leading to the sub-prime loan/housing market bubble (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac anyone?) fiasco and the rest of the resulting financial market and banking meltdown(s). And it isn't over by a long shot. Am I off-topic enough on this baby?

Originally Posted by airmail wf View Post
Cool, What do you know about the Federal Reserve System. Just wondering.
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Old 11-26-2008, 06:11 AM
  #531  
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Originally Posted by Voyager2lcats View Post
Murph (just saw your post), that is a question that would take some time to answer! You probably know all the basics about they set the discount loan rates for the nation's regional Federal Reserve banks, each bank has a cash reserve requirement also set by "the Fed". Monetary policy is their reason for being. Need I mention that they took a hands-off approach (i.e. don't attempt to regulate because it might cause an investment panic) to collateralized debt obligations starting with the Clinton administration thus leading to the sub-prime loan/housing market bubble (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac anyone?) fiasco and the rest of the resulting financial market and banking meltdown(s). And it isn't over by a long shot. Am I off-topic enough on this baby?
Question: The Federal reserve prints money...correct and what do they have backing that money? From my understanding of the Federal Reserve System they print money with nothing backing it and LOAN it to the Government for which the Government pays back interest on this loan with our income tax dollars...is this correct? Oh, did I mention that the Federal Reserve is NOT a Government agency.If you don't believe me look it up in the phone book all the Government agencies are in the blue section the Federal reserve is in the yellow section. It is a group of bankers who the Government is not even sure who they are. When you print money with nothing backing it(i.e Gold, Silver) it's like adding water to soup after you add enough water there is no soup left. Why would the Government who could print there own money with gold backing it and no interest let a group of bankers print (counterfeit) money then loan it to them so they could pay interest back to the bankers. This is so nuts I can't even believe I'm writing it. By the way this has been going on since 1913. We are at the end of the dollar having any real value. I think it's down to about 4 cents now and dropping FAST. Next step and you heard it here first folks is the RFID chips. There won't be any money any more just credits on the chips that the people in charge read (Federal Reserve) can control with a key stroke. First they will be in your bank cards then drivers licenses then next step implanted in you and me. Already started in Australia. This is a rant I'm not sorry for. We need to WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Staying on topic: Gas here is $2.05 and still dropping
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Old 11-26-2008, 06:39 AM
  #532  
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info Financially off-topic.

Airmail, I was just getting ready for bed when I saw your post. I'll answer briefly and tell what I learned in my courses (long ago). The U.S. Dollar is what is known as fiat currency- it's value is declared by the Fed (basically public confidence in the currency is the strongest factor). Yes, essentially they print dollars via the Treasury Department, but they have to watch how much, because too many dollars in print lowers the value relative to purchased goods (i.e. inflation). The gold standard was abandoned for a number of reasons, one of which was the price fluctuations related to the total supply of gold in the economy (not a good thing if gold prices crash- very volatile like some of the futures markets). Haven't been following RFID chips, but it doesn't surprise me: checks, credit cards, ATM cards are all considered "near money" in economic terms. Nowadays that "near money" is more liquid than cash!! I should say that as long as you monitor your accounts (annual print-outs are not a bad idea if you bank electronically) you can more than likely successfully contest any discrepancies. My credit card accounts (I only have two)almost always give me the benefit of the doubt. For example, U-Haul recently overcharged me twice for renting a van for one hour. I would have paid 130 bucks if I had not quickly noticed what they did and called my credit card bank. I still paid $45 (ten more than I should have been charged), but that's my worst experience if you can believe it. Maybe we should start a Federal Reserve/Financial Market thread?

P.S. Regular unleaded gasoline selling for $1.60/gallon at Raceway.

Originally Posted by airmail wf View Post
Question: The Federal reserve prints money...correct and what do they have backing that money? From my understanding of the Federal Reserve System they print money with nothing backing it and LOAN it to the Government for which the Government pays back interest on this loan with our income tax dollars...is this correct? Oh, did I mention that the Federal Reserve is NOT a Government agency.If you don't believe me look it up in the phone book all the Government agencies are in the blue section the Federal reserve is in the yellow section. It is a group of bankers who the Government is not even sure who they are. When you print money with nothing backing it(i.e Gold, Silver) it's like adding water to soup after you add enough water there is no soup left. Why would the Government who could print there own money with gold backing it and no interest let a group of bankers print (counterfeit) money then loan it to them so they could pay interest back to the bankers. This is so nuts I can't even believe I'm writing it. By the way this has been going on since 1913. We are at the end of the dollar having any real value. I think it's down to about 4 cents now and dropping FAST. Next step and you heard it here first folks is the RFID chips. There won't be any money any more just credits on the chips that the people in charge read (Federal Reserve) can control with a key stroke. First they will be in your bank cards then drivers licenses then next step implanted in you and me. Already started in Australia. This is a rant I'm not sorry for. We need to WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Staying on topic: Gas here is $2.05 and still dropping
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:00 PM
  #533  
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Originally Posted by Voyager2lcats View Post
Airmail, I was just getting ready for bed when I saw your post. I'll answer briefly and tell what I learned in my courses (long ago). The U.S. Dollar is what is known as fiat currency- it's value is declared by the Fed (basically public confidence in the currency is the strongest factor). Yes, essentially they print dollars via the Treasury Department, but they have to watch how much, because too many dollars in print lowers the value relative to purchased goods (i.e. inflation). The gold standard was abandoned for a number of reasons, one of which was the price fluctuations related to the total supply of gold in the economy (not a good thing if gold prices crash- very volatile like some of the futures markets). Haven't been following RFID chips, but it doesn't surprise me: checks, credit cards, ATM cards are all considered "near money" in economic terms. Nowadays that "near money" is more liquid than cash!! I should say that as long as you monitor your accounts (annual print-outs are not a bad idea if you bank electronically) you can more than likely successfully contest any discrepancies. My credit card accounts (I only have two)almost always give me the benefit of the doubt. For example, U-Haul recently overcharged me twice for renting a van for one hour. I would have paid 130 bucks if I had not quickly noticed what they did and called my credit card bank. I still paid $45 (ten more than I should have been charged), but that's my worst experience if you can believe it. Maybe we should start a Federal Reserve/Financial Market thread?

P.S. Regular unleaded gasoline selling for $1.60/gallon at Raceway.
I'm afraid if we did it would only be me and you.

I just don't see how they are going to stimulate the economy by making more money. It's not that simple. This is what they keep saying and doing print more money. This is destroying the economy. We need to produce more and import less. We need to bring jobs back to the states. I'm no financial wizard, but adding more water to the soup is not going to make it taste any better. Sooner or later you are going to have to start from scratch. I think once all the banks fail the Federal Reserve will come in and say we will give you 5 cents on the dollar for all the money that you had in the bank ( so you can feed your family)BUT you need to let us install this RFID chip so we can keep track of the money or what was money.
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Old 11-26-2008, 05:45 PM
  #534  
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Makes you wonder about the value of the upcoming US Peso, doesn't it? Printing money is the easy part, backing it up is where it gets tricky...
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:21 PM
  #535  
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I don't want to get all involved in this discussion, but the U S Mint prints money, not the Federal Reserve. The money being bandied about for the various bailouts will be borrowed on the world markets from countries such as China, thereby increasing our national debt. This is not a good thing either. Bad businesses should be allowed to fail and let the market take care of the problems.
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Old 11-26-2008, 08:47 PM
  #536  
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Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
Bad businesses should be allowed to fail and let the market take care of the problems.

Amen
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:59 PM
  #537  
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Since you put in an opinion, you are involved. If the "free market" were really unregulated and information was perfect (like in an economic model), then you would be correct. Slight problem: unemployment is going to boom when all of these banks and their borrowers go belly up. In addition, many of these companies receive government subsidies and significant tax breaks when they acquire debt-ridden smaller companies. You are going to have a waterfall effect on consumer spending, pensions, social security, defense spending, ad infinitum.
Yes the mint prints the money, but they don't decide where it goes; the Federal Reserve does that. They set U.S. monetary policy via the Federal Reserve Regional banks (12 of them if I remember correctly).
Lastly, borrowing from China is part of the reason we are in this mess; it just exacerbates (worsens) an already dicey economic situation. We can't spend our way out of this. We have to raise taxes and cut government spending simultaneously. Anything else is voodoo economics. Remember where that quote came from?

Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
I don't want to get all involved in this discussion, but the U S Mint prints money, not the Federal Reserve. The money being bandied about for the various bailouts will be borrowed on the world markets from countries such as China, thereby increasing our national debt. This is not a good thing either. Bad businesses should be allowed to fail and let the market take care of the problems.
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:43 PM
  #538  
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Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
I talked to Santa - you're getting coal. Just one lump
Yeah, I know... Since I lost my job, my wife and I agreed that we are not giving eachother gifts this year -- and we are not exchanging gifts with parents, brothers, sisters, and in-laws. That just leaves our kids -- we hope to give them enough for Christmas, that the absence of the "breadwinner income" is not obvious to them. :o

I drove to Bartlesville, OK this morning -- a gallon of unleaded is selling for $1.47 there -- it's still $1.53 here in Tulsa.
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:51 PM
  #539  
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Unhappy Promise: No more Federal Reserve points on the Gasoline thread

On topic: filled up for $1.59/gallon at 76. I already know I am not getting coal for Christmas.
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:22 AM
  #540  
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Filled up in Tulsa for $1.53 today.
Posted via Mobile Device
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:53 AM
  #541  
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Weasel down to $2.49 today
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:38 AM
  #542  
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Filled up with Diesel today at 2.39.

3 hours later the same station dropped it to 2.29
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:25 PM
  #543  
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Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
I don't want to get all involved in this discussion, but the U S Mint prints money, not the Federal Reserve. The money being bandied about for the various bailouts will be borrowed on the world markets from countries such as China, thereby increasing our national debt. This is not a good thing either. Bad businesses should be allowed to fail and let the market take care of the problems.
Under $2.00 here.

To late you are in. The Federal Reserve act in 1913 gave the Federal Reserve the RIGHT to print money (even if the mint is printing it) they are printing it for the Federal Reserve to loan it to the Government and gave the Federal Reserve the right to charge the Government interest on the money. I didn't say this was going to make sense. But this is the way it is done. This is why we are in the state we are in. Don't believe me watch this. If you dare.

[media]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173[/media]

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
Henry Ford

Last edited by airmail wf; 11-27-2008 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:41 PM
  #544  
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Airmail, that's a great quote from Henry Ford. Wow!

Originally Posted by airmail wf View Post
Under $2.00 here.

To late you are in. The Federal Reserve act in 1913 gave the Federal Reserve the RIGHT to print money (even if the mint is printing it) they are printing it for the Federal Reserve to loan it to the Government and gave the Federal Reserve the right to charge the Government interest on the money. I didn't say this was going to make sense. But this is the way it is done. This is why we are in the state we are in. Don't believe me watch this. If you dare.

[media]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173[/media]
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
Henry Ford
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:57 PM
  #545  
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Voyager, Thanks. Did you watch the video? There are even better quotes in it. Some from Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Some unbelievable ones from Clinton, Bush and past Presidents.

The one from Woodrow Wilson hits the nail on the head. I feel so sorry for him. He sold our Country down the tubes and I don't think he meant too. It took him about 6 years to realize what he had done.


Gas is holding at $1.99 in Pittsburgh
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:44 AM
  #546  
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Airmail, I can't view vimeo (I used to upload to there!) due to child viewing software I installed on my home pc. But it keeps the little guy from unintentionally accessing age-inappropriate web sites. I need to figure out how to temporarily disable it or allow vimeo. I will try and view it and let you know what I think.

Originally Posted by airmail wf View Post
Voyager, Thanks. Did you watch the video? There are even better quotes in it. Some from Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Some unbelievable ones from Clinton, Bush and past Presidents.

The one from Woodrow Wilson hits the nail on the head. I feel so sorry for him. He sold our Country down the tubes and I don't think he meant too. It took him about 6 years to realize what he had done.


Gas is holding at $1.99 in Pittsburgh
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Old 11-28-2008, 03:11 AM
  #547  
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Voyager it's on you tube also. I don't know if that will help. It is a must watch for everyone.
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Old 11-28-2008, 03:32 AM
  #548  
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$1.68.9 still here in Oswego at Marathon (BH)
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:30 AM
  #549  
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Holding at $1.99 here. What happened to this thread? Seems to have dried up. Hmmmm.
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Old 11-29-2008, 01:50 PM
  #550  
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Paid $1.56 a few days ago down here. Gas prices havent been so low since before 2004
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