I guess nobody flies combat anymore
01-16-2015, 05:13 PM
#2
Love my Stinger
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,962
I enjoyed it but found I grew tired of fixing the plans after it was all over. Streamer combat seems fun but never could find anyone in the area who wanted to go that route. Come spring/summer may give it a go again
01-16-2015, 05:43 PM
#3
Super Contributor
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,870
We have a guy who is trying to get others interested ... I was interested but was at a time before I met him.
Trouble is now - I don't have any model I'm willing to sacrifice in it ... but ummin anf arrin about maybe a quickie Depron job to do it ... this coming season.
It would be hard to dog-fight this guy though ... he's using a slim pocket rocket job ... literally a pylon racer on steroids !!
Nigel
Trouble is now - I don't have any model I'm willing to sacrifice in it ... but ummin anf arrin about maybe a quickie Depron job to do it ... this coming season.
It would be hard to dog-fight this guy though ... he's using a slim pocket rocket job ... literally a pylon racer on steroids !!
Nigel
01-16-2015, 05:45 PM
#4
Behold The Renaissance
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
We still do occasionally......weather and getting all of us together have been the main reasons only occasionally.
It's a bit modified.......4 of us use Slow Sticks, attach 3' ribbons (no more, no less).........the goal is to attack the ribbons......disqualified if plane to plane contact is made......but it still happens....lol.......that's the nice thing about Sticks, easy, quick and cheap to fix.
I've got some old vid's around here someplace.....I'll post if I can dig them up.
It's a bit modified.......4 of us use Slow Sticks, attach 3' ribbons (no more, no less).........the goal is to attack the ribbons......disqualified if plane to plane contact is made......but it still happens....lol.......that's the nice thing about Sticks, easy, quick and cheap to fix.
I've got some old vid's around here someplace.....I'll post if I can dig them up.
01-16-2015, 06:08 PM
#6
Behold The Renaissance
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
In our case, it's purely recreation. Rules established from a club two of us used to belong to.
The goal is to pull off the ribbon, which is attached, by a small strip of velcro, to the rear tail portion of the stick and end of ribbon.
The key is to use your wings to gather the ribbon.....it's more difficult than it seems. Often the prop gets involved, not good.
We allow strips of the spikey velcro to be attached to the leading edge of the wings........(only the leading edge) to make contact with the ribbon. It works pretty good if the velcro stays attached to the wing....lol
If ones ribbon is taken, he's out of play.......obviously, the last man standing or with the most ribbons collected is the winner..........there's two types of approach we take. Either set the Stick up to be fast, agile and less flight time.....or slower, with good climb rate and longer flight times.
Most of the time, we all run out of flight (battery) time. The best any of us have done over that past year, is collect two ribbons when 4 or more are in the mix..........the guy with the "best" crash gets a hardy pat on the back......
I should add.......If the prop has gathered the ribbon and the pilot can save the Stick from a CRASH........it counts as a collection. Also, the ribbons collected do not need to remain attached to the plane. We have a spotter keeping count. Also, if one must come down (land or crash) during competition, that Stick is out of play until the next round.
The goal is to pull off the ribbon, which is attached, by a small strip of velcro, to the rear tail portion of the stick and end of ribbon.
The key is to use your wings to gather the ribbon.....it's more difficult than it seems. Often the prop gets involved, not good.
We allow strips of the spikey velcro to be attached to the leading edge of the wings........(only the leading edge) to make contact with the ribbon. It works pretty good if the velcro stays attached to the wing....lol
If ones ribbon is taken, he's out of play.......obviously, the last man standing or with the most ribbons collected is the winner..........there's two types of approach we take. Either set the Stick up to be fast, agile and less flight time.....or slower, with good climb rate and longer flight times.
Most of the time, we all run out of flight (battery) time. The best any of us have done over that past year, is collect two ribbons when 4 or more are in the mix..........the guy with the "best" crash gets a hardy pat on the back......
I should add.......If the prop has gathered the ribbon and the pilot can save the Stick from a CRASH........it counts as a collection. Also, the ribbons collected do not need to remain attached to the plane. We have a spotter keeping count. Also, if one must come down (land or crash) during competition, that Stick is out of play until the next round.
01-16-2015, 06:14 PM
#7
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: OBX Kill Devil Hills, NC
Posts: 353
AMA has CL combat rules, haven't checked for RC combat, but their is a special interest group with website.
http://www.rccombat.com/
http://www.rccombat.com/
01-16-2015, 06:24 PM
#8
Super Contributor
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,870
When I did it years ago ... with GLOW engines !!
It was long crepe paper streamers ... basically we bought christmas decoration stuff and then cut lengths from it. Usually about 10 - 12ft. We attached to tail and set the lengths EQUAL for all combatants that day.
We were not looking to 'pull off' any streamer - we were looking to 'prop cut' the streamer ... with winner either being one still with streamer left or at set time one with longest streamer ..
Rules ? As agreed by contestants that day.
Funny thing is - I cannot remember a mid-air in this ! It was far harder than one first imagines ... and I found it harder if the models were significantly different size or style. Maybe the perspective part ... bigger model vs smaller ?
The best contests were the close in moderate height jobs ... intense tight loops twists turns etc.
But there was one aspect you HAD to take care of ... that streamer COULD break if you were too fast and too hard in manouevres ... lose it and your OUT ! So flying had to be with care as well - adding to the difficulty.
If I was to do it today ? I think a flying wing would be my choice.
Nigel
It was long crepe paper streamers ... basically we bought christmas decoration stuff and then cut lengths from it. Usually about 10 - 12ft. We attached to tail and set the lengths EQUAL for all combatants that day.
We were not looking to 'pull off' any streamer - we were looking to 'prop cut' the streamer ... with winner either being one still with streamer left or at set time one with longest streamer ..
Rules ? As agreed by contestants that day.
Funny thing is - I cannot remember a mid-air in this ! It was far harder than one first imagines ... and I found it harder if the models were significantly different size or style. Maybe the perspective part ... bigger model vs smaller ?
The best contests were the close in moderate height jobs ... intense tight loops twists turns etc.
But there was one aspect you HAD to take care of ... that streamer COULD break if you were too fast and too hard in manouevres ... lose it and your OUT ! So flying had to be with care as well - adding to the difficulty.
If I was to do it today ? I think a flying wing would be my choice.
Nigel
01-16-2015, 06:37 PM
#9
Behold The Renaissance
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
Yaa.....we tried the paper streamers and cut........with it being breezy most of the time and lack of HP our Sticks have, it became more of a "who could stay in the air the longest with a streamer wrapped around our props"......lol
We use the type of ribbons girls tie their hair up with..........very light, colorful, but heavy enough to get drag in a breeze.......and still be used several times (even after a prop hit)......it's the prop that suffers, but we all use prop savers.........not mandatory, but it saves major motor shaft problems later........
EDIT:
Taking paper cutting out of the equation and using the wings to pull the ribbons off is very challenging.......and enjoyable with slow flying Sticks that have enough prop to hover and bank quickly........
We use the type of ribbons girls tie their hair up with..........very light, colorful, but heavy enough to get drag in a breeze.......and still be used several times (even after a prop hit)......it's the prop that suffers, but we all use prop savers.........not mandatory, but it saves major motor shaft problems later........
EDIT:
Taking paper cutting out of the equation and using the wings to pull the ribbons off is very challenging.......and enjoyable with slow flying Sticks that have enough prop to hover and bank quickly........
Last edited by pizzano; 01-16-2015 at 08:01 PM.
01-16-2015, 07:39 PM
#10
Super Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
You have to adjust the streamer size to the size motor so you have a chance of cutting it.
standard appx 1.75 to 2.00 inch inch wide crepe paper can be cut by something equal to a .15 glow with little trouble. Less power or a slow turning prop and you need a weaker streamer.
If you're running a slow fly prop you probably aren't turning fast rpm enough for cutting streamers unless you are approaching the prop's safe rpm limit. (and thus risking overstressing the hub when you cut the standard ribbon used for glow combat)
Glow combat standardized on 3/4 inch wide crepe paper (appx half width of a standard party streamer) after finding that full width tends to add too much drag. (some that don't use the AMA/RCCA combat rules still use full width)
Experiments with a lot of other streamer materials tend to find they are either too tough or they break just from getting towed at speed. Slower electric combat models could probably use some that glow combat fliers have rejected.
*****************
Usig a ribon that makes the person who manages to get their prop into it lose their prop is making the winner suffer... exactly the opposite of desired result.
standard appx 1.75 to 2.00 inch inch wide crepe paper can be cut by something equal to a .15 glow with little trouble. Less power or a slow turning prop and you need a weaker streamer.
If you're running a slow fly prop you probably aren't turning fast rpm enough for cutting streamers unless you are approaching the prop's safe rpm limit. (and thus risking overstressing the hub when you cut the standard ribbon used for glow combat)
Glow combat standardized on 3/4 inch wide crepe paper (appx half width of a standard party streamer) after finding that full width tends to add too much drag. (some that don't use the AMA/RCCA combat rules still use full width)
Experiments with a lot of other streamer materials tend to find they are either too tough or they break just from getting towed at speed. Slower electric combat models could probably use some that glow combat fliers have rejected.
*****************
Usig a ribon that makes the person who manages to get their prop into it lose their prop is making the winner suffer... exactly the opposite of desired result.
01-16-2015, 08:36 PM
#11
Community Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Crawfordville, FL
Posts: 7,011
A week from tomorrow we will be doing Slow Stick combat at the Arizona Electric Festival. It is streamer combat, but of course there is always some contact.
Hopefully someone will get good video and I'll post it up here.
Hopefully someone will get good video and I'll post it up here.
01-16-2015, 09:13 PM
#12
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 5,871
Originally Posted by fhhuber
You have to adjust the streamer size to the size motor so you have a chance of cutting it.
standard appx 1.75 to 2.00 inch inch wide crepe paper can be cut by something equal to a .15 glow with little trouble. Less power or a slow turning prop and you need a weaker streamer.
If you're running a slow fly prop you probably aren't turning fast rpm enough for cutting streamers unless you are approaching the prop's safe rpm limit. (and thus risking overstressing the hub when you cut the standard ribbon used for glow combat)
Glow combat standardized on 3/4 inch wide crepe paper (appx half width of a standard party streamer) after finding that full width tends to add too much drag. (some that don't use the AMA/RCCA combat rules still use full width)
Experiments with a lot of other streamer materials tend to find they are either too tough or they break just from getting towed at speed. Slower electric combat models could probably use some that glow combat fliers have rejected.
*****************
Usig a ribon that makes the person who manages to get their prop into it lose their prop is making the winner suffer... exactly the opposite of desired result.
standard appx 1.75 to 2.00 inch inch wide crepe paper can be cut by something equal to a .15 glow with little trouble. Less power or a slow turning prop and you need a weaker streamer.
If you're running a slow fly prop you probably aren't turning fast rpm enough for cutting streamers unless you are approaching the prop's safe rpm limit. (and thus risking overstressing the hub when you cut the standard ribbon used for glow combat)
Glow combat standardized on 3/4 inch wide crepe paper (appx half width of a standard party streamer) after finding that full width tends to add too much drag. (some that don't use the AMA/RCCA combat rules still use full width)
Experiments with a lot of other streamer materials tend to find they are either too tough or they break just from getting towed at speed. Slower electric combat models could probably use some that glow combat fliers have rejected.
*****************
Usig a ribon that makes the person who manages to get their prop into it lose their prop is making the winner suffer... exactly the opposite of desired result.
If I got into this it would be with electric motors. Ihave no interest in glow.
01-16-2015, 09:21 PM
#13
Super Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
If you start out with an e-power model with a prop spinning approx the same rpm as the glow... then the streamers used for glow will be fine. If you turn half the RPM you are probably looking at having issues cutting that crepe streamer with the prop.
A majority of cuts are actually made with the wing though...
A majority of cuts are actually made with the wing though...
01-16-2015, 09:59 PM
#14
Community Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: oxford, MA
Posts: 7,084
We fly the Gremlin combat with 20 foot streamer attached to a cotton thread. Flight is 4 fast minutes two pilots at a time.
You get points for a cut and then there is points for spot landing. A frisbe is set on the middle of the field. I fly my Gremlin electric with a 25 eflite motor and 3c 3300 mah battery 11x7 prop. Lots of fun, but it is tough to cut the other guys ribbons.
You get points for a cut and then there is points for spot landing. A frisbe is set on the middle of the field. I fly my Gremlin electric with a 25 eflite motor and 3c 3300 mah battery 11x7 prop. Lots of fun, but it is tough to cut the other guys ribbons.
01-16-2015, 11:38 PM
#17
Community Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: oxford, MA
Posts: 7,084
Originally Posted by fhhuber
:p 2 in the air at a time is just a pylon race... Gotta have 4+ for it to be really interesting.
Carpetbagger I can only fly with a 3c batterry in combat. With a 4c and a 10x10 prop she really moves out. We are doing close to 70 MPH with a 4 lb wing trying to turn in on each other. Doesn't take much to cut Crepe paper, or have a midair which are quite spectacular.
01-16-2015, 11:41 PM
#18
Super Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
The RPM max (with a specific propellor...) is a way to measure a power limit.
The rules defined a max displacement limit and people found out they could swap cylinders and pistons with a different engine thus having higher displacement with the smaller displacement label molded into the crankcase.
Power means speed and speed can be a large advantage in getting behind and then running straight up someone's streamer.
Very easy to do a tach test to catch this cheat.
Making the electric comply with the same rpm limit with the same prop is one of the best ways to make the two type power systems compete as evenly as possible.
The rules defined a max displacement limit and people found out they could swap cylinders and pistons with a different engine thus having higher displacement with the smaller displacement label molded into the crankcase.
Power means speed and speed can be a large advantage in getting behind and then running straight up someone's streamer.
Very easy to do a tach test to catch this cheat.
Making the electric comply with the same rpm limit with the same prop is one of the best ways to make the two type power systems compete as evenly as possible.
01-17-2015, 12:33 AM
#19
Super Contributor
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: White Lake, MI
Posts: 1,140
We still do it occasionally, not enough. I gave away the components required to build a plane at our club Christmas party to drum up some more interest for this coming season.
We fly the Fast and Furious planes for streamer combat. We actually are no longer very picky on what plane is used... If you want to throw something up with a streamer, go for it... But, in general small home built foamies with 1000mAh 2S batteries. Buy the cheapest Cray Paper you can find and cut it in half. Works great just blue taped to the plane.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47556
It's a riot. We have our club meetings at the field in the summer and we will at least fight then. We used to have a standing time (Every Tue) but the interest is down... I miss it! It's getting hard to find the original motor, but there are others available that are close enough.
Steve
We fly the Fast and Furious planes for streamer combat. We actually are no longer very picky on what plane is used... If you want to throw something up with a streamer, go for it... But, in general small home built foamies with 1000mAh 2S batteries. Buy the cheapest Cray Paper you can find and cut it in half. Works great just blue taped to the plane.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47556
It's a riot. We have our club meetings at the field in the summer and we will at least fight then. We used to have a standing time (Every Tue) but the interest is down... I miss it! It's getting hard to find the original motor, but there are others available that are close enough.
Steve
01-17-2015, 02:24 AM
#20
CrazyBall Designer and OT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maryville Tn
Posts: 159
Dead...nope!...gettin better ...yep
I know a club nearby (KCRC) has Slow Stick combat every Sunday morning...although I have not been there..
But occasionally ay VAM Knoxville we do electric combat flying Corvos...
and get in some really tight furballs ....and yes we midair...sometimes several times a day but the Corvos are light and tough enough to take most of the abuse and still fly..
but I'm concentrating on a new design of mine and FPV combat plane that should be able to take them all on in FPV ...with the others flying LOS and win.
also should give the racing 250 quads a run for their money through the trees
But occasionally ay VAM Knoxville we do electric combat flying Corvos...
and get in some really tight furballs ....and yes we midair...sometimes several times a day but the Corvos are light and tough enough to take most of the abuse and still fly..
but I'm concentrating on a new design of mine and FPV combat plane that should be able to take them all on in FPV ...with the others flying LOS and win.
also should give the racing 250 quads a run for their money through the trees
01-17-2015, 02:49 AM
#21
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: OBX Kill Devil Hills, NC
Posts: 353
fhhuber- yep, faking out engine inspectors is an old trick. Me and my son raced stock outboards - my boy had one honking A motor, a Mercury KG-4 that was uber tuned. Every time he kicked butt in New Jersey races the losers would mumble about "Southern As". Well, we were from Virginia but took me awhile to research "Southern A".
A motors were 15 c.i. but somewhere in Mercury history they built a 17.5 c.i. block which was later used by Western Auto for their Wizards. Outside the parts were identical to the KG-4. A southern gentleman racer from Richmond, VA figured that out and made the switch. Got away with for several years while he stormed to win after win. Thus, when his cheating was revealed, the nickname "Southern A" was coined. It was fitting since, and I kid thee not, his name was Robert E. Lee.
A motors were 15 c.i. but somewhere in Mercury history they built a 17.5 c.i. block which was later used by Western Auto for their Wizards. Outside the parts were identical to the KG-4. A southern gentleman racer from Richmond, VA figured that out and made the switch. Got away with for several years while he stormed to win after win. Thus, when his cheating was revealed, the nickname "Southern A" was coined. It was fitting since, and I kid thee not, his name was Robert E. Lee.
01-17-2015, 03:20 AM
#22
Behold The Renaissance
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
Originally Posted by gittarpikk
I know a club nearby (KCRC) has Slow Stick combat every Sunday morning...although I have not been there..
But occasionally ay VAM Knoxville we do electric combat flying Corvos...
and get in some really tight furballs ....and yes we midair...sometimes several times a day but the Corvos are light and tough enough to take most of the abuse and still fly..
but I'm concentrating on a new design of mine and FPV combat plane that should be able to take them all on in FPV ...with the others flying LOS and win.
also should give the racing 250 quads a run for their money through the trees
But occasionally ay VAM Knoxville we do electric combat flying Corvos...
and get in some really tight furballs ....and yes we midair...sometimes several times a day but the Corvos are light and tough enough to take most of the abuse and still fly..
but I'm concentrating on a new design of mine and FPV combat plane that should be able to take them all on in FPV ...with the others flying LOS and win.
also should give the racing 250 quads a run for their money through the trees
Recently, I was at a sponsored exhibit in Orange County that had several pylon type FPV quad races........blew my mind how fast and agile these pros can make quads perform........
01-17-2015, 03:27 AM
#23
Super Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,780
Go to the dollar store, buy 5-10 streamers. Tape one to your tail, the entire length, then take it to the flying field. In 10 minutes, everyone else would do the same. Person with the longest streamer wins.
01-17-2015, 03:40 AM
#24
CrazyBall Designer and OT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maryville Tn
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by pizzano
You'd be surprized how well the 200 racing quads handle in the hands of a good pilot....
..they've got a few advantages your plane will not have
very few....
...obviously they axis rotate (vert & horiz)
Check (look at the image...full symmetrical...can out turn any quad)
and stop on a dime if needed..'
and lose...
...especially handy in tight spaces and slalom......
This design can fly 'through' small limbs.../grass...a quad would chip/lose a prop
Recently, I was at a sponsored exhibit in Orange County that had several pylon type FPV quad races........blew my mind how fast and agile these pros can make quads perform........
..they've got a few advantages your plane will not have
very few....
...obviously they axis rotate (vert & horiz)
Check (look at the image...full symmetrical...can out turn any quad)
and stop on a dime if needed..'
and lose...
...especially handy in tight spaces and slalom......
This design can fly 'through' small limbs.../grass...a quad would chip/lose a prop
Recently, I was at a sponsored exhibit in Orange County that had several pylon type FPV quad races........blew my mind how fast and agile these pros can make quads perform........
This is a level turning design...not 'bank and yank'
still developing at this point... will be flying fpv combat soon.
01-17-2015, 04:03 AM
#25
Behold The Renaissance
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
LOL gitt.........love the enthusiasm. The plank concept will most certainly be fast and agile......it will never accelerate + vert. like any racing quad, which is needed on many outdoor, tree, branch and bush laced courses......good luck.....keep the concept alive here at WF.......it's not combat, but interesting nevertheless......
