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Build Thread- WACO SRE From Manzano

Old 01-14-2009, 01:15 PM
  #101  
Sky Sharkster
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Default Fin + Rudder Covered

Here's the fin and rudder covering. I'm not happy with the pinstripes, they seem to come out wavy or bumpy. I think the problem is they're trying to shrink as I put them on. But if I apply the stripe without heat (just Minwax) they wrinkle anyway.
I may peel off the stripes and try another method.
Ron
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:02 AM
  #102  
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Ron, I like that idea of the fillet along side of the stab, I'm at the same piont on my build (differant kit) where there really isn't much contact, I'm going to try it out as well. great job your doing there.

Glenn
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:19 AM
  #103  
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Default Filleting?

Hi Sparkie,
Thanks, that's a trick I've been using for a long time, trying to avoid too much stress on a small contact area. It works well and doesn't add much weight.
Good luck, what are you building?
Ron
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:58 PM
  #104  
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Hi Ron, I'm working on an old FF comet plan of the Luscombe Phantom enlarged to 40", the horizontal stab sits pretty high up on vertical stab, I may put a couple underneath as well seeing I only have 1/8 of contact above and below . not sure how to put a link to the build , It's over on RCG under E-Scale.

Glenn
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:58 PM
  #105  
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Ron,

Have you thought about writing something up for MA outlining the Minwax/Litespan methods you are developing?
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Old 01-16-2009, 02:37 PM
  #106  
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Default Ailerons, Luscombe, Len's Motors, Covering

Hi Glenn,
Great thread on RCG! Are you "Shrub Wacker"?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=933027
Nice job on the build, I especially like the laminated-outline tail surfaces. Are you an former Free Flighter?
I have a Len's Motor also, used it in my first R/C conversion Playboy Sr. That one was a 33" scaled-down version, tissue covered. It flew great, the motor almost too much! I believe he's out of the motor business, now.
Hi Kev, thanks for the suggestion, maybe some other builders could find the Minwax/Litespan experiment useful. I'll e-mail MA and see if they're interested.
I stripped out all the servos I could find on my non-flying models. Here's my very low-tech testing (see photo). The purple ones (Blue Arrow?) work fine, I've used them previously on a 1-1/2 meter powered glider as aileron servos. I also have 2 Hitec HS-55's that will go in the fuselage for R/E.
Last, I e-mailed Callie Graphics, apparently she has the Waco logo on file and can cut a set of small versions for the rudder. Thanks, Callie!
Here's the photos;
Ron
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:43 PM
  #107  
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Thanks for the kind words Ron, most of my planes end up in the shrubbery that's where I got my name(GRIN), No I never got into FF , I saw the plan and thought that it was a unique little plane and hadn't seen to many out there. I didn't know lens went out of buisness, that's to bad they made a nice little motor.

your doing a nice job on your waco, your at the part I dread, the testing of the equipment, I usualy get it all in there thinking its alset, and then end up having to reverse everything.

Callie did the graphics for my Dumas YMF-5 waco, she does a real nice job and ya can't beat her prices.

Glenn

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Old 01-17-2009, 12:20 PM
  #108  
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Default Covering The Fuselage (Partially)

I skipped around a bit here, started working on the fuselage sides. The top + bottom will remain uncovered until I glue the wings on, so I can reinforce the inside mounting dowels. It's a little convoluted but may make more sense as I post the wing attachment.
I'm not shrinking the open bays at the rear until all is covered. That, in turn, won't happen until I mount the stab/rudder and hook up the controls.
Anyway, the part I worried about, the compound curve at the nose (curved sheeting) turned out OK, a few small wrinkles that should go away when I apply more heat.
I did have to re-apply Minwax there, the covering didn't want to stay down on the concave section. Once I found this out on the first side, it went much easier on the second side.
As a side note, the tail surfaces and fuselage (so far) have used nearly a full sheet of Litespan. I hope to get both wings out of the second package. At $7.00 per pack, it will cost $14.00 plus the Minwax to cover.
The sheets are about 1/2 the size of typical iron-on.
Since I'm having trouble with the trim (double-covering) wrinkles, I decided to have Callie Graphics cut my AMA # plus "N" for the wing registration #'s. hopefully the vinyl will apply better.
But I'll try to use black Litespan for the long fuselage stripe that wraps around the cowl. The cowl itself will be painted, I found a pretty good match for the red.
So far, so good!
Ron
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:31 AM
  #109  
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Default Pushrods, Servo Mounting

A start on the servo mounting in the fuselage. For the rudder + elevator I will have 2 Hitec HS-55's mounted in the cabin rear area. These will be mounted upside-down, since the only hatch will be on the bottom.
First I soldered threaded brass couplers to .047 wire.
Then I made up "Z" bends + "L" bends for the other end of the pushrods. The rods themselves will be 1/8" square balsa, plenty left over from the kit. The wire is attached to the rods with thread and CA.
Next I made a servo tray from two sheets of 1/16" balsa, glued together cross-grain.
I glued two short strips of balsa on the sides of the fuselage and added the servo tray. The section in the middle of the tray will get a thin coat of epoxy and the Rx will be velcro'd on.
Ron
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:30 PM
  #110  
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Default Servo Mounting, Pushrods, Pt. II

Here's the servo tray and R/E servos mounted, with pushrods temporarily attached. The servos are wrapped with masking tape and will be lightly glued from the other (top) side.
If I need to adjust the pushrod length, I can hold the brass coupler with needle-nose pliers and turn the clevis.
Ron
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:47 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Those black caps on the pins are called "Pin Clamps". Very handy, you don't have to stick the pin though the wood, the clamp holds it firmly;
http://www.tailspinaviation.com/html...es__books.html
Scroll 1/3 down the page.

I don't mean to sound elitist, but a kit from Mountain Models, ACE, Stevens Aero would be a better place to start and provide a greater chance of success.

Ron
Ron,

I'm coming in late the game and have made it to post #15. Sorry about jumping in so late. Looks great so far.

First I want to thank you for posting that link. Great site with great stuff. The pin clamps are new to me. Great idea!

Question. What is ACE that you refer to above?

Thanks and on to reading through.

Frank
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Old 01-18-2009, 02:15 PM
  #112  
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Default ACE "Simple" Series + Wizard

Hi Frank,
Thanks for the interest! It's a long build, but I'm getting there.
ACE is a kit-maker, distributor (Thunder Tiger) and long-time seller of modeling supplies. http://www.acehobby.com/ace/index.htm
Long ago, they produced a High-wing model for 1/2A glow, a trainer with foam wings, box fuselage built with a "crutch" frame and sheet balsa tail surfaces. They're recently re-introduced this model, a great "400" sized (or glow) model called the "Whizard"
http://www.acehobby.com/ace/ACE4245.htm
They also produce a kit (actually, one of a series) called the "Simple 400" which uses the same basic construction, except the foam wing is tapered and shoulder-mounted. For either glow .049 or 400 electric;
http://www.acehobby.com/ace/ACE4244.htm
If you do a search here at Wattflyer you'll find lots of fans of this model, it's a fine aileron trainer. They make other versions that look somewhat like famous Warbirds, and a biplane version. ACE also sell both the constant-chord and tapered foam wing cores separately.
Hope you enjoy the Waco thread!
Ron
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:49 PM
  #113  
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Very nice Ron, I like that pushrod set up , I've never used Lite-span before , looks like it goes on nice. is that another name for tissue or is it a bit stronger?


Glenn
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Old 01-18-2009, 07:33 PM
  #114  
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Default LiteSpan

Hello Glenn,
Litespan/Coverlite is a poly blend fiber material that is much stronger than tissue. It even seems stronger than the self-adhesive iron-ons like Microlite/Solite, at less weight.
However, it requires a separate adhesive, there's none on the material. Two brands are made for it, Stix-It (SIG) + Coverite adhesive. I've used both, with OK results. Now I'm trying MinWax, never heard of anyone using it for this application but it's working out pretty well. Still some problems with double-covering (like letters and trim) where it tends to be lumpy or not flattening out as well as I'd like.
Also, the weight of the adhesive brings the total weight up. I don't have any exact figures, but my guess would be 3 grams per square foot, making it slightly heavier than the "Micro" iron-ons.
Pros; Looks like doped fabric, stronger than "Micro" iron-on, can be painted or doped, lighter than any iron-on except "Micros".
Cons; Needs special adhesive, doesn't "mold" shrink or conform to compound curves as well as iron-ons (although it's pretty good), hard to apply trim, lettering, limited color range.
Here's some photos of a couple of wings done with Litespan, both have one coat of clear dope over the material.
Hope this helps!
Ron
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Old 01-18-2009, 09:20 PM
  #115  
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Default Devil In The Details

After all the major work is done, it's the little things that take time. For example, the lowly "Tailwheel". Not even steerable, what could be more simple?
Mounting it, for one.
I had to get this set, as it would be much harder with the pushrods in place above it. So, I removed the 'rods and began.
Heavy duty thread, thin drill bit in a pin vise, large(!) sewing needle.
I traced my wire shape inside the ply bottom piece and "outlined" it with holes, using the pin vise.
Sewed the wire to the plate, this area is so tight I needed needle-nose pliers to pull the thread thru.
Dripped a few drops of CA on the inside.
Yes, the thread outline on the outside looks like Martian writing, but it will be covered with black Litespan!
A simple job? 1 hour. But at least I could listen to (and occasionally peek at) the NFL Playoffs!
Ron
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:01 AM
  #116  
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Thanks for the detailed photos Ron, it does have a fabric look to it, I mostly use So-Lite or doculam, tissue on a couple static models, I'll have to give this a shot sometime.

Glenn
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Old 01-21-2009, 02:26 PM
  #117  
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We were discussing silkspan earlier. One of our local building wizards had this to say about using it over open bays in his Fokker DVII (note that he used regular non-taughtening dope, not WBPU. I'll be using WBPU.)
I did not use Mylar. Here's what I did.
First I dyed the silkspan red with scarlet RIT dye. After it dried I cut the silkspan pieces to shape, sprayed them with water, and let them dry slightly. Then I placed them on the surface to be covered (either open or over wood). Then I painted around the outer edges, then the inner surfaces, with non-taughtening
nitrate dope available at AeroDyne (http://www.freeflightmodels.com). I then sealed it with 3 or 4 more coats of non-taughtening dope. When the entire plane was covered in this manner, I repeatd the process for a double layer. For the second layer make certain that there are no bubbles between the lower and upper layers.

You may find that the first coat comes out with a whitish cast because of the water. Don't worry, subsequent coats will take this out and you'll end up with a clear red surface.
Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Hello Glenn,
Litespan/Coverlite is a poly blend fiber material that is much stronger than tissue. It even seems stronger than the self-adhesive iron-ons like Microlite/Solite, at less weight.
However, it requires a separate adhesive, there's none on the material. Two brands are made for it, Stix-It (SIG) + Coverite adhesive. I've used both, with OK results. Now I'm trying MinWax, never heard of anyone using it for this application but it's working out pretty well. Still some problems with double-covering (like letters and trim) where it tends to be lumpy or not flattening out as well as I'd like.
Also, the weight of the adhesive brings the total weight up. I don't have any exact figures, but my guess would be 3 grams per square foot, making it slightly heavier than the "Micro" iron-ons.
Pros; Looks like doped fabric, stronger than "Micro" iron-on, can be painted or doped, lighter than any iron-on except "Micros".
Cons; Needs special adhesive, doesn't "mold" shrink or conform to compound curves as well as iron-ons (although it's pretty good), hard to apply trim, lettering, limited color range.
Here's some photos of a couple of wings done with Litespan, both have one coat of clear dope over the material.
Hope this helps!
Ron
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:59 PM
  #118  
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Default Cowl Trimming

Hi Matt, Thank you for the info on silkspan and finishing, I'll try to link that post to the "Covering + Fininshing" section of the Builders Links.
Here's the start of the cowl. I wanted to remove the sections of plastic between the cylinders, both for motor cooling and a bit more "Scale" effect.
But how to cut the small sections out? I didn't think jabbing around the outline with a # 11 was a great solution, but how about removing them from the back...hmmmm.So I used a new razor blade and sliced the "Top" (actually the bottom) of the moulding off, leaving the cylinder moulding intact. There's a bit of flash left, but a swipe with the blade took care of that.
Then I took out my Model Master paints and used chrome silver, flat black and a touch of rust to paint the inside. I'll mask the rim off when I apply the red spray paint on the exterior.
Ron
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:22 PM
  #119  
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Ron, Keith Sparks (who did the plastics, I believe) has a diffferent method of removing the plastic on cowl/engine details. He recommends sanding the flash until it is very thin, flat on a piece of sandpaper until it is very thin, and then cutting off the remaining with small scissors (or whatever your weapon of choice is). For sanding down the motor detail itself, cut a balsa or ply disk that is about the right size, drill a hole in the center, put a 1/8" bolt in it with a nut on the back. Glue a piece of sandpaper to the disk, and put into your drill/dremel. Sand the engine detail from the back side until you basically sand away everything but the cylinders. Take your time and you will get very nicely defined, smooth edges. You can see the methodology in Sparks' B-25 build thread on RCG.

I haven't tried the sanding disk method on a cowl yet, but it looks like it would save a lot of time. I, for one, do not seem to have a steady enough hand to cut the cylinders with any great amount of accuracy using a razor blade. I have used the "flat sanding" method on several of Sparks' pilot figures and on the aft end of cowls, and it works very well.

Just another way of skinning the cat!

Mark
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:31 PM
  #120  
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Default Motor Detailing

Hi Mark,
That method sounds better, and safer, too! I wasn't keen about having my fingers trapped inside the cowl with only a sharp razor blade for company, but fortunately (this time) no wounds.
The disc on a moto-tool is an excellent idea, I'll save that one for next time.
Ron
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:42 PM
  #121  
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Ron,

Absolutely stunning. This is an example of why I love to follow your builds.
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:25 PM
  #122  
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Default Pinstripes, Callie Graphics

Hi Kev, Thank you, it's been fun so far, but now I'm at the "90% done, 90% to go" stage and the build slows WAY down.
I wasn't happy with the Litespan pinstripes on the fin and decided to try a "mixed media" approach. Maybe MicroLite? So I used acetone to remove the stripes from the fin, cut similar stripes from black Microlite and ironed one side on. A bit wrinkled, but not nearly as bad as the Litespan.
And, my graphics from Callie came in the mail yesterday. Why not put those on the rudder also.
Here's the result; Callie, you're the best!
Ron
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:27 PM
  #123  
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That tail really looks nice.
I'll have to try some of that Litespan too.

Thanks Ron, now there's something else I have to buy.

Paul
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:37 PM
  #124  
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Default Tail Trim Finished

Hi Paul.
Yes, it's yet another covering material, and it bothers me to think I've got rolls and rolls of Ultracoat, Coverite, Monokote, SoLite, not to mention silkspan and Japanese tissue sitting around!
But I wanted the "Scale" look and this was the best I could find.
I know what you mean about holes in doped tissue; In my Free Flight days I was constantly patching. It seemed normal at the time, but once I discovered the poly or "plastic" coverings, things changed.
Anyway, I cut new curved pinstripes for the fin and stab from black Solite and removed all the Litespan stripes with acetone.
Then I ironed on the new stripes and put the Waco logo on the other side of the rudder. Here's the result.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:25 PM
  #125  
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Salisbury Ma
Posts: 131
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looking sharp Ron, pinstripe came out nice. a method I have used In the past Is sign making vinyl , the real thin stuff. I just cut the curve of the stab right in it, layed it on with a little windex to position it , squeegee out the fluid from underneath and let it dry


Glenn
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