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Phoenix Accipiter Build Thread

Old 11-27-2008, 11:07 AM
  #1  
Sam_K
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Default Phoenix Accipiter Build Thread

Hi Everyone,

After a stupid amount of research and agonising I finally bought a Phoenix Accipiter today. "A what?" I hear you say. There is very little info on this model around on the Internet and it is not in production any more. In fact Phoenix now make a different model called the Accipiter which is a much more modern looking, 90 size, mid-wing, pattern plane. This is not that model.

I've been looking for a new aerobatic model at around the 60" wing span size for a couple of months. When the global financial crisis hit, the Aussie dollar plunged against the US dollar and as a result the prices of models at local hobby shops have shot up by around 40%. Feeling a bit despondent about the sharp rise in prices, I dropped into my LHS today to see if he had anything still sitting on the shelf at the pre-GFC prices.

Right up the back of the store, in the far corner, on the top shelf, almost completely hidden behind other ARF boxes was this old Phoenix Accipiter. The shop owner had to get it down with his ladder just so we could see what it was. It had been sitting up there since he took ownership of the shop 2 years ago and he immediately offered it to me for $180.00 which was $80 less than the price ticket on the box. (To put this in perspective for the US crowd, the Hangar 9 Pulse XT 40 has just gone up to $320 from local suppliers)

To cut a long story short it is now sitting on my dining table. My first impression is that this thing is bloody huge and looks awesome! I love the "scale-ish" details like the panel lines, access hatches and warning messages. I can't help the feeling that this was meant to be. I've looked at so many other planes on the Internet over the last couple of months and several times I thought I had made up my mind, but something always put me off. Now this dark horse rides out of the dusty corner of my LHS on an impulse buy with no research and I am totally smitten.

This Phoenix Accipiter is a low-wing, sport model with the following stats:
  • 64" wing-span (160cm)
  • 570 sq. in wing area (3680 sq. cm)
  • Designed for .40-.50 size 2-stroke power
  • 4 standard servos
  • Tricycle undercarriage with steerable nose-gear
This will of course be an electric power conversion. I am intending to use a Turnigy power system but have not yet purchased a motor or ESC.

The model is designed for a single, centrally mounted aileron servo with torque rods, a servo each for elevator and rudder and a 4th servo for the nose wheel. I would like to try to convert it to dual aileron servos and have the nose wheel steered by the rudder servo. I have checked and found that there is ample room for two servos to sit side by side in the top of the wing underneath the fuselage.

The nose wheel servo position is right next to the rudder servo so attaching these two functions to one servo will hopefully be easy. In fact I am at a bit of a loss to understand why they would build it to require two separate servos.

There is no recommended flying weight for the model provided in the instructions or on the box. The weight of all of the kit parts except the fuel tank (which I won't be using) is 1.6kg.

For now I will leave you with some pictures of the box contents and a picture of the airframe parts dry fitted together.

Also, here is a link to someone else's completed Accipiter.
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam_K View Post
The nose wheel servo position is right next to the rudder servo so attaching these two functions to one servo will hopefully be easy. In fact I am at a bit of a loss to understand why they would build it to require two separate servos.
Oops, silly me, on closer inspection I see that the 4th servo is actually the throttle servo, and the nose wheel steering is already designed to hook up to the rudder servo.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:56 PM
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I'd love to hear some opinions on the following topics:

What would be a sensible flying weight for this model?

How many watts should I go for to get unlimited aerobatic power?
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:17 PM
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Default Accipiter Power Set-Up?

Hello Sam,
I'm not familiar with that model, but a little research turned up a similar aerobatic model. http://www.fliton.com/sub/inspire_60_acro.php
Note that this has more wing area (with about the same span) and the fuselage is longer. For your wing area and a reasonable wing loading of 16 ounces per square foot, that would be 4 Lbs. The 570 square inches of your model is almost exactly 4 square feet (144 sq.in. per sq. foot, x 4 = 576 square inches)
At a rate of 150 watts per square foot (or, coincidentally, pound), this would be 600 watts. That would be major aerobatic power, 125 watts per square foot would be fully aerobatic but perhaps not unlimited vertical.
175 W/Lb is a rough estimate for full 3D/Vertical.
At 5 lbs RTF, this puts the wing loading near 20 ounces per square foot, a pretty high loading for aerobatics. It also reduces the Watts/Lb., you would need more like 750W for 150W/Lb.
Here's another comparison;
http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...OD&ProdID=3450
Somewhat larger wing area, but here again the wing loading is (just) under 20 ounces per square foot.
These are "Ballpark" estimates and subject to overall drag and aerodynamics of the model. But, it's a start!
Good Luck,
Ron
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:43 PM
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Thanks for the analysis Ron, I appreciate it!

With the weight of the unassembled kit parts being 3.53lb, a ready to fly weight of 4lb will be impossible.

Shooting for 600W, and choosing the lightest parts I can find, the lightest setup I can put together comes to 5.13lb. This is with a Turnigy SK 42-40 (149g, 600W max), 40A ESC and 6S 2200mAh battery drawing 28A. That setup delivers a wing loading of 20.7oz/sq ft, but only gives me 117 watts/lb which just isn't enough. My current plane, a Mini Ultra Stick, gets 110 watts/lb and I've always found it lacking in the vertical department.

Moving up to the next motor size would be a Turnigy SK 42-50 (230g, 1150W max) with a 60A ESC and 6S 4400mAh battery drawing 50A for 1050W. This setup delivers an all up weight of 6.12lb, wing loading of 24.7oz/sq ft and power loading of 171 watts/lb.

Unfortunately Turnigy don't have a motor that falls in between those two.

Also, all of these calculations don't take into account the inevitable extra bit of weight that creeps in when building such as the weight of glue, wires, battery hatch mod, etc.
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:58 AM
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Default Weight Problems

Hi Sam,
Sorry I didn't see the airframe weight. I looked at E-Flite, Himax, UltraFly motors and a couple others, seems the going weight for 800 Watts is near 10 ounces.
About the only other option might be a geared inrunner. This may knock off a couple ounces.
I'm out of ideas, maybe someone else has a solution?
Ron
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:02 AM
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I think I've hit on a combo that could be the ticket

One thing I hadn't mentioned yet is that I have a bunch of Zippy 3S 2200mAh 20C LiPo packs that I am hoping to use to power this plane. Either 2 in series for a 6s 2200mAh (352g, 44A max) pack or in a 2x2 config for 6s 4400mAh (704g, 88A max). I think a 704g pack is going to be too heavy so I am trying to get away with the 352g.

If I use a Scorpion SC3020-16 (154g, 40A/800W) with 40A ESC and 6S 2200 pack I can bring the model in at 5.15lb with a wing loading of 20.8oz/sq ft. Propped for 772 watts that gives exactly 150 watts/lb BUT, that is drawing 37 amps.

Do you think 37 Amps is a pretty hard ask for a battery pack that is rated for 44A max? I suppose I won't fly around at WOT all the time, just bursts on the up-lines. Is this a bad idea or is it good because it keeps everything as light as possible?
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:47 AM
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I just did some research into the original glow engine power system to give me a better idea of the manufacturers intended flying weight.

The recommended engine in the manual is the OS Max 46FX which weighs 375g or the OS FS52 at 434g. The fuel tank, bung and clunk weigh 50g. It would also have required an NiMh receiver pack and switch harness, the one I have here weighs 130g. So with bolts and fuel tubing I guess the original power system would have weighed around 580g to 640g with no fuel in it. I have no idea what fuel weighs but I'll take a stab in the dark and say that it would have been at least 200g for a full tank.

Putting all of that together gives an original take-off weight of about 2.55Kg to 2.61kg (5.6lb - 5.75lb) which gives a wing loading of 22.7 - 23.2 oz/sq ft. So I guess anything under that is better than originally intended.

Whether or not that actually translates into being "good" is another question.
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:11 PM
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Default A bBetter Deal?

Hy Sam,
That size Scorpion motor sounds like it might be a good fit. I have a 3008-32 and it's am very impressed with it. Fine quality and great power.
Now, my question is, are the Zippy packs 20C Constant or Burst?
If it's constant, I believe you're OK., but you may want to look at a higher (than 40a) rated ESC. Running them WOT at or near burst rating, even for short periods, seems like it will shorten their life.
Of course, that also depends on the reliability of the manufacturers' claimed rating and the prior use/condition of the cells.
Also, the lighter packs (6s 2200 Mah) won't have great flight duration.
It is certainly worth a try, and at worst, later try the 2 x 2's.
Overall, nice find on the motor and battery packs! It will still be lighter then the glow version and the power-to-weight and wing loading are all well within acceptable limits.
Ron
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:57 PM
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The cells are rated at "20C Constant / 25-30C Burst" and they are brand new. I bought 4 of them just last week to use in my Mini Ultra Stick and also to hopefully use in my new beast. I have not put even one cycle on any of them yet so I can't comment on their performance. The weather doesn't look promising for this weekend either.
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:56 PM
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Default Sounds Good!

Hi Sam,
It sounds like you have a workable solution now. Great job on the research, sorry I wasn't more help. I tend to be cautious with LiPos at WOT, but since you will be well below the "Constant" rating, still producing 150 W/Lb, you should have more than enough power for aerobatics.
Hoping for better weather!
Ron
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:11 AM
  #12  
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I have one which was originally converted to 14 nicad cells and a belt driven 700 motor.
I dont think it is made by the company Phoenix, it is made by a vietnamese company called Phoenix Model as is shown on the vertical fin
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:18 PM
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Hi Sam, You dont need 6 cells for that plane, its lite, a 3548A 1100kv is all you need, and it may be to much power with a 4 cell lipo, use a 4 cell 3700Mah 20C Rhino and a 80 amp turnigy ESC with a 11x5.5 or a 12x6 apc prop 607 Watts with a 11x5.5 and about 700 watts with a 12x6 , I have this motor, and on 4 cells, you wont belive the power it has, unbelivible, i have it in a 42' wing span 40 size funtana, its way to much power for it, takes off in 5 feet, and i can only fly it at half throtthe, its way to fast, and thats with only a 11x5.5 apc prop, Chellie

Model: TR35-48-A
Input Voltage : 7.4V~18.5V (2~5S Li-po)
Kv : 1100 rpm/V within 10%
Dimensions : 35mm X 55mm / 1.38in X 2.17in
Shaft diameter : 4mm / 0.16in
Weight with cables : 163g / 5.75oz
Number of poles/magnets : 14
Recommended model weight : 800~2000g
Stator Dimentions: 28x26mm
Suggested ESC: 70A
Suggested prop: 13x6
Power equivalent : .30 to .35 glow engine

Great motor
MARCOS FELIX MONTERO MONTERO i have used this motor with the follow propelers

10x5 35A 11500rpm 4s batery 527W
10x7 41,91A 10500 rpm 4s 614w
11x5,5 42,7A 10100 rpm 4s 607w
11x8 49A 9200rpm 709w
12x8 55A 8200rpm 773w
13x4 45A 9400rpm 746w
14x7 61A 7100 rpm 803w Dangerous

Finally i use 12x8 for my Tojeiro 50



http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...r_Eq:_AXi_2826#

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...0C_Lipoly_Pack

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...eed_Controller

Last edited by CHELLIE; 11-29-2008 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 11-30-2008, 07:32 PM
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A quick update before work....

I glued the wing together over the weeked. As mentioned I want to install dual aileron servos so I have to make up a new mounting plate. I spent Saturday afternoon making a new plate and then when I test fitted it I found that I had miscalculated the positioning of the servos and they were a bit too close together. Everything still fitted in but the pushrods to the torque rods would not have been as straight as I would like.

I read somewhere that it is important to get the pushrods from the servo to the control arm to be exactly parallel with the control arm and exactly perpendicular to the servo arm, otherwise you will get uneven geometry between the push and the pull action. Is that right? Anyway I redesigned the plate and just have to cut out a new one.

On Sunday I went to the field with my new Zippy 3S 2200mAh 20C packs and flew them in my Mini Ultra Stick. Very happy with how they performed. I was impressed that with the pack 1/3rd discharged they would still hold 3.85v per cell at 25A.

Also, Wouldn't you know it, I've been flying just one plane for the last year due to budget constraints and now just days after I have bought a new plane you won't guess what happens. I've been talking to one of the guys at the field who is pretty much the best aerobatic pilot there, I've been asking him questions about what to do next to get my skills up etc. About 6 weeks ago I was watching him fly a Precision Aerobatics Katana and the motor riped clean out of the motor mount and wrecked the fibre glass cowling. He managed to get it down in one piece though. Anyway, yesterday at the field he calls me over to his car and says "I decided I'm never going to fix this so I thought I'd give it to you instead of throwing it away". Now I have 2 new planes!!! All I have to do is buy a new cowl and fix the motor mount! When it rains it pours!

Thanks very much for you suggestion Chellie, looking at the specs for that motor I would never have guessed that it could perform so well. It even says 30-35 glow equivalent when the recommendation is for a 46 glow for my plane. However the watt meter numbers you provided certainly look good and for the money it can't hurt to give it a shot. Only thing is I am going to be using 3S 2200mAh 20C packs that I have already bought either in series, parallel or both. So I need a power system that works on either 3S or 6S at 2200mAh or 4400mAh. I'll do some analysis on that motor later when i get more time.

Cheers everyone!
Sam
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Old 12-01-2008, 04:04 AM
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OK I've spent some time looking at that Turnigy motor and doing some calculations. I've come to the conclusion that the best motor for me would be the "C" version of that same motor.

Sorry Chellie I don't mean to dispute you because I really respect and appreciate your opinion, but I've looked at it from a different viewpoint and come up with some other ideas. So thank-you for putting me on the path! So, on with the theory....

The Turnigy 35-48-C is exactly the same motor but wound for 800kv instead of 1100kv.

The 1100kv "A" motor you suggested would nominally run at 16,280 RPM unloaded. This is pretty similar to the 800kv "C" motor on 6S which would run at 17,760 RPM unloaded. So the performance would be pretty similar except that the C motor on 6S would be drawing only about 35A instead of over 50A on the "A" version. This means I can step down to a lighter 60A ESC and shed 30g of weight and save some money.

Another thing is that at 50+A that "A" motor would be getting a bit too far away from it's peak efficiency current. The closer you get to a motor's max current, the less efficient it is. Running at 35A should keep everything a lot closer to peak efficiency.

Also your 4S 3700mAh pack has (14.8*3.7=) 55wH (watt hours) of power in it and my 6S 2200mAh has (22.2*2.2=) 49wH so the run time will be pretty similar too, especially when you take into account the increased efficiency.

One last thing is that all three version of this motor are rated for 2-5S, not 6S. Now I have a theory on this and I'm willing to pu my money where my mouth is. I recently leard on the All Things That Fly podcast that the only thing that limits how many volts you can put on a motor is the mechanical limitation of how fast the thing can rotate before it starts to fall apart. Now I'm going to run with the assumption that A, B and C version of this motor are all mechanically the same, ie. they have the same shaft, rotor housing, magnets and bearing, so they should all have pretty much the same max RPM.

The "A" version of the motor apparently will allow 5S which means the max recommended RPM is 5*3.7*1100 = 20,350 RPM. If that's OK for the "A" motor, then 17,760 RPM should also be fine for the "C".

Obviously the "C" motor can't handle amps as high as the "A" due to thinner wire for more windings, but that's OK, lower amps is just what I want.

Whaddya think, have I got it right? Bare in mind that this is only my 3rd plane and most of the data and theories I am using here are just what I have researched and read on the Internet so I'd be happy for someone to point out any mistakes.
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:00 PM
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Ugh... I'm just going to have to pull the trigger on this motor purchase or I'm in serious danger of over researching it. Just spent all night doing spreadsheets on all of my short listed motor options.

The Turnigy 42-50b is now also a serious option just because of the lower Kv which will give me a more sane prop speed. On just about all the other motors I've looked at on 6S I would have to use a 4" pitch max on the prop to stay under my club's 100km/hr (60mph) speed limit.

So many compromises to balance... weight, price, RPM at 6S, efficiency... Ugh...
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:22 AM
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I have ordered the Turnigy 42-50-B with the Turnigy Plush 60A ESC. I also bought the ESC programming card and 42-50 motor mount.

I figured that the extra 30g over the 35-48-C was worth it for the lower Kv and also having a motor that I am not running right on the edge of its ability.

With either the 35-48-C on 6S (or the 35-38-A on 4S) the maximum safe prop diameter for an APC E or sport prop is only 10", perhaps 12" once you take a load into account on the RPM. So I held a 10" prop up to the nose of the plane and it looked tiny, I'd like a bigger prop just for looks. (The song "I like big props" from Higher Plane Productions keeps popping into my head )

Glad that's put bed, now I can stop obsessing about it.
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:08 AM
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Looking forwards to the next few steps of the build, once I have that aileron servo plate sorted out I will need to attach the tail. The plane is designed for a permanantly glued on stab and fin, but personally I prefer bolt on tail feathers.

I like removable tails because it can pack down better for transport or storage and also makes for much easier repairs should the tail ever get damaged.

The stab is supposed to be glued onto the top of the end of the fuselage, and then the fin is glued onto the top of the stab. This looks like a very easy arrangement for conversion to a bolt on setup.

The base of the fin has a large, solid wood (not balsa ) flange/base on it that is meant to be epoxied to the top of the stab. Instead I will drill two shallow holes into it and glue in some nuts. Then I will put two matching holes in the stab and another two matching holes down through the fuselage. I will then use a couple of nylon bolts to hold everything together, inserted up through the bottom of the fuse, through the stab and screwed into the captive nuts in the rudder.

I may even drill some additional holes in the base of the fin just to try to lighten it up a bit. This whole model is built like a proverbial public toilet block. The firewall and wing mounting plate are both 8mm ply!!!

Heh, my club instructor did recommend a Phoenix Model plane preciesly because they are built so solid and can survive a few prangs. He wasn't wrong!
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:08 AM
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Hi Sam I should have made mention Earlier, that turnigy also has a Sk series, with a lower KV Ratings, the Motor you bought will work great, these Turnigy motors are very powerful motors, I was really surprised, I have a 3536 1100kv motor on 3 cells, with a 12x6 prop on a 49" W/S 9mm profile Foamie that I made, and its awesome, I cant fly it WOT, its too fast, and I have a almost 2 to 1 power ratio, its a lot of fun to fly, look at the youtube link in my Signiture, thats the maiden video, I had to add 1 more CF tube in the wing to take out the little wing flexing that it had, Take care, Chellie

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...0&ParentCat=59
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:49 AM
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I did see the SK series, and I was tempted by the increased efficency, but in the end, it was a heavier motor (SK 42-50 is 230g, 42-50B is 190g, 35-48C is 163g) and double the price. So the cheap skate in me took over and said "If you're gonna go cheap, don't muck around!".

If I really wanted to spend more for efficiency I would stump up for the Scorpion which is more efficient AND lighter at the same time. I may yet do this in future.

I also already have a Turnigy motor in the form of the 35-30-C 1100Kv that I fly on 3 cells with an APC-E 11x5.5 in my Mini Ultra Stick and it's a blast. At 25A It's plenty fast and has almost unlimited vertical, in fact I'm not skilled enough to hold it straight up for long enough to find out.
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Old 12-02-2008, 02:01 PM
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Progress and pictures! Our two favourite things in a build thread!

I need to go back a little in time first as there are a few photos I took last weekend that I had not posted yet.

Pic 1: This picture is to show the design of the cowl area. Notice how the cowl is just part of the construction of the fuselage and has a honking great hole in the side of it for side mounting of a glow motor. There is no cover hatch for that hole, normally the cylinder head and muffler would hang out of it. I need to find a way to cover that hole because I think it's ugly, that may be a post-maiden project though.

Pic 2: This shot shows the off the the printed graphic work on the covering. I think it looks great, but it will be a nightmare to repair if I ever damage it. These graphics are actually printed directly on to the covering which is basically a huge sticker. Which leads us staright into pic 3...

Pic 3: When I first opened the box I found that the covering had lifted a bit at the leading edge of one of the wing halves. This shot is looking at the leading edge and underside of the wing. The covering is actually adhesive backed like a conventional sticker. It was still tacky and when smoothed down it would stay down at first, but after an hour it would lift up again as seen in the picture. I masked the rest of the wing with newspaper and masking tape and then sprayed 3M Super 77 into the gap and smoothed the covering back around the leading edge again. It is now 3 days later and it isn't showing the tiniest hint of lifting again! Job done.

Pic 4: This one shows the original single aileron servo mount. In this pic the wing halves are not glued together yet so there is a bit of a gap down the middle. At the top of the pic you can see the torque rod control arms.

Pic 5: The first real job of construction was to glue the wing halves together. The instructions didn't mention it, but I thought it would be prudent to remove any covering on the faces of the wing roots so I could get a good glue joint. The covering is quite thick so if you didn't do this I'd be surprised if any wood would be touching at all when pressed together. The left wing in this pic has the covering removed, the right hasn't been done yet. I also gave them a light sand with a block for good measure.


Now we come to the photos I took this evening


Pic 6: Here is a pic of my new, dual aileron mounting plate. In this pic I have just epoxied it over the top of the hole where the old mounting plate used to be. I traced around the servo plate and removed the covering underneath it before gluing.

Pic 7: After the glue had cured I cut out the new holes in the wing skins. Doing this dual aileron conversion also neatly side stepped the problem that my Spektrum DS821 servos were too tall to fit in the original mounting hole. If you go back and look at pics 4 & 5 you will see that the depth of the aileron hole is restricted by the two root wing ribs were the wing halves join together. Now I don't have to worry about that at all.

Pic 8: Here is a test fit of the aileron servos. Looks good!

At this point I looked at attaching the stab and fin but I need to fin and buy the nylon bolts and nuts I am going to use for this job before I can go any further with it so I moved on to the landing gear.

Pic 9: This plane uses the fairly standard "slotted grooves and Z bent gear legs" method of attaching the gear legs to the wing. The instructions said to remove the covering but I decided to just cut a slit in it so I could at least partially conceal the bar where it runs along the surface of the wing

Pic 10: One of the finished wheels

Pic 11: All three wheels finished. The nose leg was pretty straight forward as the mounting plate was already attached to the firewall with a matching hole drilled through the fuse floor. All I had to do was push the nose leg in, attach the steering horn and hook up the pre-installed pushrod.

Pic 12: And here she is standing on her new shoes! I had to put 2 of the servos into the cowling just to stop it from tipping backwards so I could take this photo and the tail surfaces aren't even on yet!

Pic 13: And finally here is a shot of me with the plane to give you a an idea of the scale. I am 5'10" (173cm). Every time I see it assmebled I have a "whoa!" moment, it's just so huge! Oh and please excuse the mess! (The room isn't very neat either! )
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Sam_K is offline  
Old 12-02-2008, 02:21 PM
  #22  
Sam_K
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Originally Posted by vanepico View Post
I dont think it is made by the company Phoenix, it is made by a vietnamese company called Phoenix Model as is shown on the vertical fin
I'm not sure which other "Phoenix" R/C company you are referring to. It is definitely the same Phoenix Model that make the other newer Accipiter that I linked in the OP. If you have a close look you can see that the company logo is the same on both planes.

It is also the same Phoenix Model company that make the Scanner and the Tiger 40 and Tiger 60 models.

Cheers,
Sam
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Old 12-02-2008, 09:21 PM
  #23  
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I can see a major problem looming....

How am I going to drill the new holes in the firewall to mount the electric motor when I can't get a drill anywhere near to either side of it?

I can see only two solutions to this problem, either I find a right angle drill attachment that is small enough to not only fit inside the cowling but also allow me room to get the drill bit into the 4 seperate locations where the hole will need to be. This seems pretty unlikely to me.

Or....

I saw the whole nose off just forward of the firewall and then make up some kind of mounting system so that I can bolt it back on.

Hmmmm.....
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:14 PM
  #24  
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I think I have a solution but it's pretty radical, I like it though because it solves 3 problems at once.

I am thinking I might saw the nose off just behind the firewall.

Not only does this enable me to get at the aft side of the firewall for drilling, but it also doubles as a battery hatch! To get battery packs in and out I just remove the whole nose section and pull the battery out forwards.

I will have to use a pretty heavy duty method for re-attaching the firewall to the fuselage. I am imagining a hardwood block down each side of the fuselage with captive nuts in them and 4 steel bolts through the firewall.

I will also have to come up with some kind of quick release system, I don't want to have to be fiddling around with 4 nuts in the cowling every time I want to swap the battery.

All of this extra hardware will also help solve a third problem which is that glow to electric conversions usually end up being tail heavy and require nose weight. At least this nose weight has a purpose.
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:29 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Sam_K View Post
I can see a major problem looming....

How am I going to drill the new holes in the firewall to mount the electric motor when I can't get a drill anywhere near to either side of it?

I can see only two solutions to this problem, either I find a right angle drill attachment that is small enough to not only fit inside the cowling but also allow me room to get the drill bit into the 4 seperate locations where the hole will need to be. This seems pretty unlikely to me.

Or....

I saw the whole nose off just forward of the firewall and then make up some kind of mounting system so that I can bolt it back on.

Hmmmm.....

Hi Sam would an extra Long drill bit work, or maybe you could weld a rod onto a drill bit, and drill from the front of the cowel, even if you had to drill 4 holes in the cowel, that would be better than sawing you plane in half Oh By the way, who is that Cute Guy in the last Pic
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