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The Official DonsRC Wicked EDF Motor Discussion Thread

Old 05-19-2008, 05:05 AM
  #176  
Bill G
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Yeah, Curtis kinda just went over that too. Actually on 3s in the EDF64, the Wicked 4800 does not run at 50,000 rpm though. 40,000 rpm on the 6 blader, and that's ideal test conditions. There are numerous people who have been able to keep these fans running without problems at this level, granted the rotor is balance properly, adapter dead on, etc, etc...

My other jet with the same setup is holding up fine. These Wicked motors with the larger shaft dia seem to be better suited to EDF. While balance is the most important factor, I'm also becoming convinced that the smoothness of motor operation and a motor with ample diameter shaft also play into the equation.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:31 AM
  #177  
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I have run the GWS 64 up to about 350watts with no issues. But I think past that you are asking for trouble. The EDF 64 makes good thrust at that wattage, about 27 ounces. The only issue I have had was due to the fan injecting some dirt on a landing in my GWS F-15. It must have damaged one of the blades as my next flight the rotor shed a blade when I added throttle.

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Old 05-20-2008, 05:59 AM
  #178  
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There is a newer version of the edf64 out that is a tad better than the older ones. It comes stock on the F15.

One trick I saw that seems to work really well - Ive only tried it on the bench - is to cut a ring from Depron that fits inside the rotor and fills in the gap between the shaft adaptor and the outer dome of the rotor.

I dont have one out where I canget a good shot at it - but it stiffens up the rotor a LOT and it runs a lot smoother. Feels like it can handle more power. Ive only run mine up to about 325 watts though.

Larry
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:11 AM
  #179  
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You will want to take a few minutes to get the Depron disk to have a good fit then CA it in place and re-balance the rotor, but its worth it.

This is one of my rotors that failed on the bench due to out of balance badly, but you get the idea

Larry
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:54 AM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by Dr Kiwi View Post
I really think that if you are pushing that many 100's of watts through a fan, you should get nothing but a high quality, all carbon fiber shroud/fan.

Pieces of plastic being flung around at 50,000rpm are not something I'd care to be in the way of!
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:36 PM
  #181  
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From enough good and bad experiences, I can say for sure that if you have a well balanced fan with a well machined adapter, the GWS will hold pretty high power levels. Getting good parts has a lot of luck involved with it too. Sometimes you just get that perfect GWS rotor/adapter which runs perfectly smooth.

While high quality stuff is nice, I reject the idea that everyone should fork up the loot and use only Schubler fans. There are far too many people who have had good results with GWS fans and appreciate the value.

Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post
You will want to take a few minutes to get the Depron disk to have a good fit then CA it in place and re-balance the rotor, but its worth it.

This is one of my rotors that failed on the bench due to out of balance badly, but you get the idea

Larry
I think an EPS 350-B gearbox shaft gear will fit in there perfectly. Can't remember for sure which gear, but it fit well.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:40 PM
  #182  
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Yeah, the adaptors are a big part of it. Some are ok some are trash.

Larry
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:53 PM
  #183  
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Default High current update

Following that estimated 825W smoking of my first wicked extreme motor I have been corresponding with Don about it off line to try and work out why. I have also carried out some further testing, using the HiModel 40 Amp ESC and the KMS 30 Amp 3S ESC (the stock one supplied with the Phase 3 fan) with a standfard wicked motor and got some interesting results. I know that the KMS ESC is capable of high revs because it is generally accepted that the stock set-up revs at about 45,000 on a 3S, but it is only rated for a 3S pack.

A range of checks were carried out using all my smaller packs and the watts/thrust readings were generally as expected Ė except with the Himodel ESC and the better packs which showed signs of stuttering and higher currents for no extra rpm (thrust).

Might be clear to many with more knowledge than me, but I'm now very confident, positive even, that I have found the answer to that first failure: in a nutshell, my motor failed because I exceeded the switching capability of the HiModel ESC by running a very high rpm motor at a high voltage.

It would appear that at the switching limit, increasing the voltage further obviously cannot increase the rpm (thrust) any more and this simply induces a very steep increase in the current through the ESC. From my results it appears that this occurs for the wicked motor and 40A HiModel ESC combo at a pack voltage of around 9.5v under load. Obviously (now) a good pack with decent voltage stability under load, or a 4 cell battery, will result in attempted high rpm and smoke! Anyway, last night I noticed that Donís Pentium ESC are back in stock and so I ordered 2.

I would just like to add that Iím not criticising HiModel speed controllers in anyway. I have quite a few in various applications from a biplane park flyer to a WestWings EDF Hawk and they all perform faultlessly, never had a problem before. It was only because I had a Himodel 40 Amp controller available at the time that I used it in the first place. However, in trying to go that bit further with these very high kV motors I have discovered a new factor (for me) to consider which might serve as a heads-up to others when "pushing the envelope"

Pete
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:58 PM
  #184  
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Hey don...your email is not working...I'd like to order one of those ESCs...
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:54 PM
  #185  
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Don,

Just a thought.

Stryker with Wicked Extreme and 5.5x4.5 prop.
Any possibilities?
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:27 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by ChimneyGuy71 View Post
Don,

Just a thought.

Stryker with Wicked Extreme and 5.5x4.5 prop.
Any possibilities?
5400Kv and a prop that big! I'd say: even on just on 3s, 100A+, and an excellent immersion heater for your coffee pot!
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:00 AM
  #187  
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Yea, probably not a good idea.
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Old 05-24-2008, 05:47 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by easytiger View Post
Hey don...your email is not working...I'd like to order one of those ESCs...
My host provider is having issues for days now. I have already purchsed hosting from someone else but I can not get into my old files
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Old 05-24-2008, 05:49 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by ChimneyGuy71 View Post
Don,
Just a thought.
Stryker with Wicked Extreme and 5.5x4.5 prop.
Any possibilities?
You would be better of with the 2700 motor on 4S and a 4.5 x 4.1 prop. It scoots my 36" Ritewing 120mph all day long. I have tested the Wicked 4000 motor on a 4.1 x 4.1 APC and was it spinning some RPM. I got about 37000 RPM!

Don
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:55 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I have run the GWS 64 up to about 350watts with no issues. But I think past that you are asking for trouble. The EDF 64 makes good thrust at that wattage, about 27 ounces. The only issue I have had was due to the fan injecting some dirt on a landing in my GWS F-15. It must have damaged one of the blades as my next flight the rotor shed a blade when I added throttle.

Don
Yep, and 350W would be fine for the 2 Wicked 4800 powered jets that I have. Not needing 1kw, just want a little boost. I just bought an EVO Lite 4s-2500 this past weekend, and can modify the batt hatches to fit it, without too much trouble.

As for the fans, I think almost every case where they explode at under the 350W that you have had success with, is due to some issue. I don't just blame the fans like some do, as I'll admit that some of mine in the past have been less than perfectly setup. The failures just make you a more conscientious fan builder. In fact, I think the fan that exploded may have been one of my fan housing repair jobs. If you really sand the entire repair area to rough the plastic and then use epoxy, you may do okay, but this particular housing was probably one that I had just CA glued in the past. Lesson learned: Just scrap it and get a new fan housing, and don't try to recycle junk from previous planes. None of those repair jobbie specials anymore for me.

Bill
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:55 AM
  #191  
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Don, what do you think about 2 cool winds on the e-flite F-15 fans? I believe they are 6-bladed fans like the e-flite airliner (and possible the same ones in the HL exec jet by SFM).

I am looking for a sporty power system for one using the stock fans. I havent run anything on that 6-blade fan ever, so I was wondering if you thought any of your motors would do well on it with 3s or 4s.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:11 AM
  #192  
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They appear to be the SF fans, same as the Executive Jet. The testing I did on the SF fans with 6 blade rotor showed the same thrust as a 3 blade rotor, but needed more amps to do it! So I figured the 6 blade was a waste. That is why I went to 3 blade on my Exec Jet. So for 3S the Wicked 4800 is about 350 watts per fan on the 3 blade. For 4S the Wicked 4000 would be a bout 500 watts per fan (3 bladed). So I would say for about 700 watts go Wicked 4800 on 3 blade, for for about 1000 watts go Wicked 4000 on 4S. Don
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:22 AM
  #193  
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I would guess this would fly very similar to my clipped wing GWS F-15. I have a pair of Wicked 4800 in GWS EDF64 fans running two 3S2100 lipos. It is about 650 watts, here is some video of it, it is about 1:35 into the video. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3nFQiSJ8Eg[/media] Don
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Old 05-27-2008, 05:28 AM
  #194  
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Hey Don,

Thanks for the info. That is interesting that your tests found the same thrust for 3-blades over 6! I am guessing the motor could only spin that fan at so much rpm, basically limiting the thrust on 6 blades.

My exec jet on wickeds run very nice and has lots of thrust. Its not a slow plane either. I may go with the 3 blade fans and your 4000s on 4s. I figured that would really be a good setup for this plane.

BTW your f-15 is nice!
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:04 AM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by hyperdynelabs View Post
Hey Don,

Thanks for the info. That is interesting that your tests found the same thrust for 3-blades over 6! I am guessing the motor could only spin that fan at so much rpm, basically limiting the thrust on 6 blades.

My exec jet on wickeds run very nice and has lots of thrust. Its not a slow plane either. I may go with the 3 blade fans and your 4000s on 4s. I figured that would really be a good setup for this plane.

BTW your f-15 is nice!
I was suprised to see it but that was on the Wicked 4800 motor on 3S. The rpm dropped, and the measued thrust was the same but amps went up by about 3. It was a lot quieter. In my opinion, the way I see it is that you want as little number of blades to do the job provided the rpm does not get too high. I generally feel that lower rotor rpm means more blades needed to get the thrust, higher rpm means less blades needed. When I tested the Alfa 3 blade fan and Alfa 5 blade fans. I noticed that for equal thrust values, the 3 blade needed less watt to do it. But the 5 blade fan due to its lower rpm could have much more power put through it as the 3 blade fan once above 60k rpm would start to stretch a lot and the tip speeds got very high so performance suffered. I would love to see the Eflite F-15 on a pair of Wicked 4000s and 4S! Don
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:39 AM
  #196  
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Makes sense on the number of blades vs. rpm and thrust. I am guessing that is why e-flite is recommending 3800kv motors with those fans on 3s. Limit amp draw while still getting some decent thrust.

This might be too much, but do you think the 4800 on 3-blades SF fan could handle 4s?

I run 3s in the exec jet but I remember you saying some guys have gone to 4s on that fan in the exec jet. But that may have been with a 4000 motor. I need to measure thrust on that plane, as its pretty heavy also.

If I put retracts and all other servos in the plane, it is looking to be a tad over 3 lbs AUW. So my target power for 1:1 thrust-weight would be 27 oz of thrust per fan. That should be doable on 4s from my past experience, as long as the fans and motors can handle it. With 2 2200mah 4s batteries I wouldnt think it would be a huge issue as long as the extra battery weight doesnt mess up CG.
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:54 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by hyperdynelabs View Post
This might be too much, but do you think the 4800 on 3-blades SF fan could handle 4s?

I run 3s in the exec jet but I remember you saying some guys have gone to 4s on that fan in the exec jet. But that may have been with a 4000 motor. I need to measure thrust on that plane, as its pretty heavy also.

If I put retracts and all other servos in the plane, it is looking to be a tad over 3 lbs AUW. So my target power for 1:1 thrust-weight would be 27 oz of thrust per fan. That should be doable on 4s from my past experience, as long as the fans and motors can handle it. With 2 2200mah 4s batteries I wouldnt think it would be a huge issue as long as the extra battery weight doesnt mess up CG.
I think the 4800 on 4S will be to much, I estimate 650+ watts per fan! For what it is worth, my GWS F-15 is the EPO foam version so it weight in at 42ounces ready to fly and I get about 50oz of thrust. My executive jet is about 48 ounces on the SF 3 blade fan and Wicked 4800 on 3S and get about 50 ounces of thrust for the pair. So it should be at least 1:1 thrust to weight on 4S. Don
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Old 06-14-2008, 03:42 AM
  #198  
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I have some new video of my Electrifly L-39 on the Wicked motor and uploaded the video to YouTube

http://au.youtube.com/dslusarc

The 4S is the best setup I think. I ran the Wicked 4000 on 4S with the stock fan and it pulls about 480 watts and about 33 amps or so.

Don
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:58 PM
  #199  
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I have been testing a new 70mm EDF fan unit. I have it installed in my Xflight A-7. I am using the Wicked 3000 outrunner motor from my Lynx. On 4S I get about 450-500 watts. More photos as I finish the build.

Don
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Old 07-12-2008, 04:42 PM
  #200  
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Don,

I'm going to upgrade my Phase 3 EF16 stock system with the the wicked extreme 5400 and run a 4s 2100mah Lipo. What amp draw can I expect so I know what size ESC to get? Thanks, Gary
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