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The Official DonsRC Wicked EDF Motor Discussion Thread

Old 02-15-2008, 12:52 PM
  #51  
The Don
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Originally Posted by TOMSAID View Post
I saw that on the box the motor was delivered in it says use low timing only, earlier in this thred you have said the motor is 6 pole. My escape information says 2 pole low 6 pole middle setting, is it better to stay with low timing or use the middle setting, also what is the frequency setting of the motor or is this not critical.
Generally that would be true but most ESC companies never expected outrunner to run at such a high RPM when they made those manuals. What I have found is the max RPM and lowest amp draw is at "low". If you go higher timing, the RPMs stay the same, and amps go up, and it may stutter at high RPM depending on the ESC.

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Old 02-15-2008, 02:24 PM
  #52  
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...and studdering means HIGH AMPS.
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Old 02-15-2008, 06:11 PM
  #53  
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Not to threadjack but it there an "Official Don's Wicked Motor" thread somwhere?
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:55 PM
  #54  
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Took me a minute to figure out what you were asking ... I was thinking, "Ummm, yeah; THIS thread!"

I haven't seen another "official" thread from Don on his non-EDF motors.
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:16 PM
  #55  
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I just noticed you are recommending the new 4000Kv Wicked's for two of the planes I'm about to put together - GWS A-10 and Me-262.

For the A-10, I had thought about a couple of setups - either the Razor 2500 motors (just because folks recommended them for their speed, weight, and amp draw, but I don't have any actual specs or stats), or your regular EDF with an XF Fan on 4S.

I considered the Wicked Extreme on 3S, but it draws more amps with less watts than the regular Wicked on 4S. And if I ran 4S on the Wicked Extreme, while it would be some crazy speed, the amp draw would be way too high for the battery I want to fit in there.

Anywho, I was curious what you thought about the A-10 and these motors vs. the 4000Kv and if you had any first hand numbers for them. Also curious if you would recommend using the XF Fan over the EDF55 unit from GWS for either the 4000Kv or 48000Kv.

And on to question #2 ... For the GWS Me-262, I was going to buy the NPS kit (can't seem to find a kit WITH the fans but without any motors), and then buy the EDF64 and BLM005A motor set for $70. Wasn't sure if I wanted to run them off 3S or 4S, but with two 3900Kv motors and both fans included for $70, it seemed like a decent setup for the money. I don't know how much real world performance improvement I'd see with a 4000Kv motor instead of a 3900Kv, and the cost is the same for two motors, but I'd still have to pick up some fans.

I looked at the Wicked EDF for those fans, too, but they're just too high a Kv for this dual setup ... I'd be running 60A to 70A depending on if I used a 3- or 6-bladed rotor.

Anyway ... curious if you had any numbers on the 4000Kv with the EDF64 units, too, or another fan unit you'd recommend instead for the GWS Me-262 and the 4000Kv. That setup I linked to above seemed like pretty good performance for the money (flew great in the video I saw ... like a 10 foot takeoff, if that), but I like to weigh my options. I saw where they sell a kit with BL2028 motors already included, too, but it looks like they're 4300Kv and aren't robust enough to handle 4S.

I feel like I've jabbered on for a bit, and since the Quick Reply box is now half the size it used to be for some reason and I keep losing my place, I'm going to just stop right here for now.
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:58 AM
  #56  
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I've recently been experimenting with some of those GWS motors and fan you mentioned, in the process of rebuilding my Hawk.

The GWS EDF64 has been going through some updates recently, so you have to be careful whether you want/get the hub that takes a 2mm motor shaft, or a 3mm, and whether you get the newer hub and fan that use the "D-cut" interface to prevent rotation of the fan relative to the hub. I got "D-cut" fans and hubs, with 2mm hubs and motors.

I tried both the BLM005A (3900KV, green band of heatshrink at base of wires) and the BLM005 (4600KV, "blue" band). Note that both of these are also designated "2028," and there is no 4300KV (link).

I've heard that with the "green" motor you have the option of either 3S or 4S, but you must not use 4S with the "blue." But that was moot for me, as I don't have any 4S batteries; I only tried 3S. With the "green" motor, I ground-tested it at about 14.5 amps and 164 watts, and getting me about 10.5 ounces of thrust from the plane. On the test flight, the plane barely was able to take off and fly a little above stall (note that this is a 24.6 ounce plane with only the one motor). Then I put in the "blue" motor; it tested at 25A, 265W, and about 15.5 ounces of thrust. (Note that I don't have any sophisticated test equipment, my thrust measurements were simply done by putting the nose of the plane up against the scale and running the power up) With the blue motor, the plane has power to spare and is quite enjoyable again (although this plane will never be a speed demon, it has a draggy airframe that includes fixed landing gear). I just put two flights on it again today.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:33 AM
  #57  
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The GWS NPS kits do include the fans - just no motor

Larry
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:40 AM
  #58  
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Hey, thanks for that info, guys! Why in the world is the NPS kit $4 cheaper than the SG kit, then?

Thanks for clearing up the discrepancies with those motor designations, Herk. I had searched for "BL2028" and found one site that had a motor listed with that designation and a Kv of 4300, so I just assumed that was the GWS motor. Guess not.

So if you buy a GWS Me-262 kit with the BL2028 package included, how do you know if you're getting the 3900Kv or the 4600Kv motors?

It sounds like the lower Kv would still do good for the Me-262, since you'd be looking at 21oz. of thrust with the dual motors at 30A, or even more thrust on 4S. Though I noticed your amp numbers are a bit higher than GWS advertises ... they show on this page that the 3900Kv motors draw 10.8A to produce 10.62oz. of thrust on a 3S battery. That's a pretty big jump over their specs they're giving out. Good info to have.

When you ordered your motors and fans, how did you make sure you got the correct fans and hubs you were looking for? Do the variations have different part numbers, or did you just call/email to verify before ordering?

Don's 4000Kv motors have a shaft of 2.3mm, so I'm not sure how much effort it would take to get them fitting correctly (I'm not real comfortable drilling new holes for motor shafts). That motor and fan kit from Tower still seems like a better deal than ordering the motors by themselves ... seems like they're about $35 everywhere I look, and both the motors plus the fans are $70 at Tower Hobbies.

(on a side note, I'd really like to have that Hawk from Epyaya. I'm extremely tempted to pull the trigger as we speak. Who makes that kit? And how does the stock fan & motor setup it comes with do compared to the EDF64 and 4600Kv GWS motor?)
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:11 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
So if you buy a GWS Me-262 kit with the BL2028 package included, how do you know if you're getting the 3900Kv or the 4600Kv motors?
That's a good question. For example if you buy here, they tell you it comes with the 3900kv motors, but if you buy here, they just say BL2028 (and the price there is $11 cheaper). I'm guessing that the 3900 is the standard motor that the powered kit ships with from GWS, while dealers could make combo deals with the NPS kit and different motors if they wanted. But that's just a guess.

Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
I noticed your amp numbers are a bit higher than GWS advertises ... they show on this page that the 3900Kv motors draw 10.8A to produce 10.62oz. of thrust on a 3S battery. That's a pretty big jump over their specs they're giving out.
That could be affected by a few things I can think of: 1) I'm using the stock shroud from the Hawk not the GWS shroud, 2) I took my wattmeter readings with everything mounted in the plane not on a test stand, and the plane has very inefficient ducting, 3) the fan might not have been worn in yet.

Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
When you ordered your motors and fans, how did you make sure you got the correct fans and hubs you were looking for? Do the variations have different part numbers, or did you just call/email to verify before ordering?
I made the order over the telephone, and the gentleman at Epyaya promised to deliver the specific matching parts that I asked for. I've been very happy with every one of several orders I've made from Epyaya; it's just been super service there. (only downside is it takes five or six days for the shipping time from California to Maryland)

Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
(on a side note, I'd really like to have that Hawk from Epyaya. I'm extremely tempted to pull the trigger as we speak. Who makes that kit? And how does the stock fan & motor setup it comes with do compared to the EDF64 and 4600Kv GWS motor?)
It's a wierd situation with that kit. It's the identical same plane as the Sapac Hawk (foamy version), but it's also sold by "Grand Distribution," which is owned by GWS. The Sapac is notorious for junk internals (motor/ESC), and sure enough my ESC lasted one and one-half flights; hence my reason for replacing the power components. I knew the reputation of the plane before I bought it, but there was a Christmas sale so cheap that I figured it was worth it just for the airframe and the LiPo. Sapac has announced that they're about to release a new version, with a better-looking canopy and "different" internals (though as I replied in that thread, I don't necessarily trust that "different" will be "better"...).

I'm getting roughly the same power with the GWS fan and motor as I got with the stock ones, maybe a bit better. People have reported that the plane is resistant to making it fast by putting in more powerful motors, either because of the inefficient air intake/exhaust, or the draggy airframe, or both. I'm happy with the plane as a sedate parkflyer-style EDF. It just looks way cool in the air and reminds me of flying the T-38. With the tricycle landing gear, takeoff and landing rolls at my club field (hard surface) are like it's on rails.

Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post
The GWS NPS kits do include the fans - just no motor

Larry
That's usually true, but for one of the kits that PerlAddict just mentioned, there is an exception here.
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:12 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by fr4nk1yn View Post
Not to threadjack but it there an "Official Don's Wicked Motor" thread somwhere?
Well since this forum mixes both Pusher Jets and EDF together we can make it one thread or do you think it will be too cluttered?

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Old 02-16-2008, 03:30 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
I
Anyway ... curious if you had any numbers on the 4000Kv with the EDF64
I could have sworn I took reading on the EDF 64 and the 4000KV but I do not see them in my notebook. So I will give you my "best guess" based on my other test data,. The 6 blade EDF64 on 3S is very close to the SF fan on 3 blades and 3S. So based on the test data I have I would gestimate the GWS EDF 64 to be about 230 watts and 21-22 amps and about 17oz thrust.

It very well may be that the GWS inrunners are as good or better. Sometimes a good inrunner is the best choice especially at moderate power levels.

By the way the new GWS fan units have the 3mm D shaft adpaters. The Wicked EDF and Wicked EDF Extreme motors are 3mm. The shaft for the Wicked 4000 I had made with a 2.3mm shaft so they fit directly into the SF fan for the Executive Jet and use the included collets. But a 3mm shaft can easily be installed in it if needed.

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Old 02-16-2008, 06:28 PM
  #62  
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Man, Herk, that's a ton of great information. Thanks for that! AdvantageHobby.com has the Me-262 BL2028 kit for $87.99 ... cheaper than Tower, Horizon, or Epyaya. Plus, there's a $5 off coupon in the rotating ads on WattFlyer for AdvantageHobby, and they do free shipping for anything over $50. Should I call to make sure they are the newest GWS versions? I didn't know how big of a deal having the revised parts was.

So I think that's probably the route I'll go with the Me-262 ... I like buying from vendors I know and have a couple more Wicked motors I'm planning to buy soon, but faced with buying the NPS kit for $37 and then motors for $70, or buying the kit with motors included for $83, I think that may be a no-brainer. I've never used an inrunner before, so this is somewhat new territory for me (well, newer territory - I've got four EDF's currently ... just haven't finished putting any of them together yet!)

The A-10 should be getting here in the next day or two. Since that doesn't include motors or fans (I couldn't find a version that came with fans, but without motors), I'll have to do some more looking into what I want to power it with. I'd like to see a comparison on the GWS EDF55 fan vs. the XF Fan on your motors, Don. The BLM2005A inrunners are the same cost as your 4000Kv outrunners, so price for performance won't be an issue then ... just the performance for the amp draw I'm hoping to stay under (under 45A for both motors combined on a 4S 2250mah 25C battery, hopefully).

I just remembered the post office has a FSK A-7 and F-16 waiting for me to pick-up, too ..... sheesh.
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:42 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well since this forum mixes both Pusher Jets and EDF together we can make it one thread or do you think it will be too cluttered?

Don
I'd say a different thread. Once people see your videos that motor gets a lot of attention.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:33 PM
  #64  
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PerlAddict - I'm not familiar with AdvantageHobby.com, but if they're one of those places that sell a lot of different brands, they might not know something esoteric about one brand, like whether the newer type of EDF parts are available yet with the powered GWS kits, or just available as separate parts for now. I bet the gentleman at Epyaya would know though (another reason I like dealing there). Since all the parts you get with the airplane kit should match with each other, it would only be an issue when you go to get replacement or upgrade parts (like switching to Don's motors later), then you would have to find the parts to match what you already have and/or switch to what the upgrade parts require. The GWS EDF parts aren't very expensive though (four or five dollars for a hub, $2.50 for an impeller), so it wouldn't be too costly even if you had to convert from one version to another later on.
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Old 02-16-2008, 10:17 PM
  #65  
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Don, Since this thread is specific for EDF motor's, I'll keep it in this sect. However any non-edf motors should be posted in the Power Systems threads.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:57 PM
  #66  
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Hey don?
What kind of flight times do you see in your Alfa A-4, Wicked EDF Extreme, 5 blade Alfa rotor, 3S2200 TP extreme lipo, Pentium 40 ESC

Thanks Sean
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:14 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by sheleymonster View Post
Hey don?
What kind of flight times do you see in your Alfa A-4, Wicked EDF Extreme, 5 blade Alfa rotor, 3S2200 TP extreme lipo, Pentium 40 ESC
Thanks Sean
I tend to fly WOT so it is only about 4 minutes. But 4 minutes at 105mph
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:30 PM
  #68  
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New thread for the non EDF applications:

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...228#post359228

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Old 02-18-2008, 04:44 PM
  #69  
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Don,

Looking at those last numbers you posted with the 4000Kv motors on the SF Fans and a 3S battery, that's about the same thrust and watts as the GWS 3900Kv on the EDF64 with a 4S (except the GWS motor is running a higher voltage and lower amp draw for the watts being pulled). It's a lot more thrust than the GWS inrunners on 3S.

Will the 4000Kv Wicked motors handle 4S? If so, it seems like they'd provide a lot more power than the GWS inrunners, but I'm curious what the amp draw would be.
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:17 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
Don,

Looking at those last numbers you posted with the 4000Kv motors on the SF Fans and a 3S battery, that's about the same thrust and watts as the GWS 3900Kv on the EDF64 with a 4S (except the GWS motor is running a higher voltage and lower amp draw for the watts being pulled). It's a lot more thrust than the GWS inrunners on 3S.

Will the 4000Kv Wicked motors handle 4S? If so, it seems like they'd provide a lot more power than the GWS inrunners, but I'm curious what the amp draw would be.
Those GWS numbers sure do look low for the KV value they are suppose to be. When I compare my regular Wicked EDF motor to the GWS 4600KV motor, they get 32k rpm on 3S I get about 40k rpm so I must have a bit more torque. As fas as the 4000 KV on 4S I think it would be best for me to test it when the next batch gets in. I apologize, I thought I tested it but I did not. And since I sold all the ones I had for Executive Jets I have no more to do other tests on at the moment. But I also am going to test it in the EDF75 fan they have to see how it goes as it may be OK for a GWS A-4.

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Old 02-19-2008, 02:04 AM
  #71  
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Looking forward to seeing the numbers, Don. The GWS numbers look a little off to me given what readings other people have given, but there are a lot more factors with EDF's than props, so I don't know what factors might have affected other folks numbers in other planes.

I'd offer to test my 4000Kv's I have, but I don't have a test stand or any EDF64 fans to test, and you already have specs for the SF Fan (and I don't know how that fan would handle the RPM's on a 4S battery).
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Old 02-19-2008, 02:11 AM
  #72  
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They will be in next week. This 3 week long Chinese New Year messed me up. My batch of 4000KV motors was suppose to ship before the holiday but did not

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Old 02-19-2008, 12:04 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I tend to fly WOT so it is only about 4 minutes. But 4 minutes at 105mph

So what do you think? 8-10 mins. with throttle managment? YA YA I KNOW! My best friend always pokes fun at me for flying scale speeds. lol.

But hey, the longer I'm in the air the happier I am. and if I have the chance to use the power its there if needed.

sean
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:08 PM
  #74  
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What is the maximum wattage the wicked extreme can take, on new 4s set up with 60 amp esc and new loonmax 2200 25c 4s it jumped up at the start to over 46 watts at 16 volts reading over 700 watts on a xf fan. I know this is a burst reading and not the in flight figures. Also another question when fitting the fanblade the shaft moved back along with the barrel of the motor then returned to its normal position as if spring loaded. Is this normal I cant see a visiblegrub screw to stop this, is there a hidden one otherwise the motors working fine just have not been able fly yet due to weather.
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:21 PM
  #75  
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Hey Don

Any idea when you'll be getting in some more Cool wind Wicked EDF 4000Kv motors? I think I'm ready to order two for my Twinstar II EDF!
Just to confirm: Will those motors be "plug and play" with eflite Super Airliner ducted fan units?


cheers
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