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Retracts on E-Flite P-38

Old 11-19-2007, 03:28 PM
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Default Retracts on E-Flite P-38

I searched around some here and on RCG, but most of what I've run across has been air-operated retracts for the P-38's. Some folks in the older threads asked "When is someone like Robarts going to wise up and make some retracts for a .25 sized plane that don't cost an arm and a leg?"

I was just curious ... would the retracts for the E-Flite AT-6 Texan work in the E-Flite P-38 as far as weight and strength are concerned? I can't imagine strength would be an issue, but I was just curious if anyone had seen any threads with mechanical rather than air-operated retracts being installed in this P-38.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:38 PM
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Hi Dave,

It wasn't in the E-Flite, but Cuban08 put mechanincal retracts in his Richmodels 52" P-38. Should be pretty similar in size.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...6858#post56858
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Old 11-19-2007, 04:45 PM
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Thanks, Tom! Seems like Hobby Lobby has quite a few decent looking mechanical retracts ... are air systems just a lot more reliable and/or lighter? At least there are some choices out there now.
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
Thanks, Tom! Seems like Hobby Lobby has quite a few decent looking mechanical retracts ... are air systems just a lot more reliable and/or lighter? At least there are some choices out there now.
I don't have any experience with them. Hopefully Glaciergirl will chime in. He has a lot of experience with both types and P-38s.
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:33 PM
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My post has "P-38" in the title, so it's really only a matter of hours before Brad reads it, I'm sure.
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Old 11-19-2007, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
My post has "P-38" in the title, so it's really only a matter of hours before Brad reads it, I'm sure.

Yep, he'll be drawn to it like a bug on a porch light.
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Old 11-20-2007, 04:34 PM
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I heard that. LOL Sorry, it's "deer season" at the shop, I swear more folks are hitting deer with cars then with guns.

Umm, what was the question Oh yeah. Retracts in a P38.
On the EFlite version. Can it be done? Sure. Will take a lotta work though.

Ok, Air systems are a lot easier to work with, but have their own problems to deal with. One is the cost. On my 52" one I had $300.00 in the air system. Also where to hide the air tank and such.

On the mechanicals, they are cheaper, but you will need a servo to operate each one. That adds to the load on your esc's bec. So you may need to go with a seperate bec or add a receiver pack.

As for the bird itself, you are going to have to hog out a lot of foam to do it. And from personal experience, there isn't a lot to begin with in the booms. So that means adding wood of fiberglass supports.

Now then add all that, plus another servo for steering, and you will have a heavy bird. And a P38 isn't a floater and is designed to fly fairly fast. You don't land a P38, you fly it into the ground.
Is your powerplant up to the new load?

Honestly this would be one of those "everyone says it can't be done, so I'll go out and prove them wrong" builds, for me.

But hey I'm busy, I have 4 big birds waiting to be finished now. And for some reason I've decided to build a smoke system for electric birds over the winter. Why should the gassers be the only ones to smoke up the place?

Be my guest at trying it, I'll be more then happy to help you out.

As for retracts, maybe look at the G/P versions for the mains, as for the nose gear, might take some looking to find a good one that will work.
You may end up having to mod an existing retract to make it steerable.

Hmmm, single servo to run the mains, control rods run from gondola to the retracts in the booms. Hmmmmmm. Wait a minute, strong single servo could actually operate all three retracts, with a little work.
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Old 11-20-2007, 05:24 PM
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Glacier Girl,I also am looking @ the options for retracts, I have a set of hobby-lobby's for there Mosquito and Spit they look like they might work.I was glad to see some one else with a (few P-38's)as I also have a few.My dad flew them in WW-2, and was a instructor,thus his experiences caused my addiction.I'm building a old KYO kit that has the F;G and H chin,which were the first planes he flew in combat.anyway if you would like to exchange any info contact me a [email protected].

Quickwedge
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:51 PM
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Brad,

I'd actually like to work through this with you some when the time comes. I'm not planning on making the nosewheel steerable. I was thinking I'd use rudder mixing on the throttle to steer it on the ground (if I recall correctly, the full-sized versions didn't have steerable nosewheels, either), and that would save the weight of a steering servo.

I didn't really think about the fact that the booms would be hollow ... that changes things a bit, doesn't it? Still, I think I'd like to give this one a go as my first try with custom retracts. It's a decent sized foam P-38, and I think it would be a fun build.

The Phase3 P-38 and Ultrafly P-51 are in line for building before we'd start on the E-Flite P-38, so it won't be until after Christmas. Hopefully by then we'll be in a nice groove and ready for a challenge or two (or three).

Or maybe I'll just send you an E-Flite P-38 with a note that says, "I bet you this plane you can't get mechanical retracts to work in this thing," and then sit back and wait for the play by play build thread with pictures.
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:58 PM
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Just a quick question on power ... do you think I need to find the right retracts/servos before I figure out how much power I'll need to pull them around, or would two Park 450's (or 480's) be enough power to not have to worry too much?
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:03 PM
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PerlAddict,do you think the AUW will be less than 50 onces? If I can keep it at that weight I am thinking about 2-2409-18t or 2-2825-09's they are lighter than e-flites with the same power plus less money.Just my thoughts as I have not bought any parts yet for my plane.

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Old 11-21-2007, 02:39 AM
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I've built one ARF plane so far with another partway through, so you are asking the wrong guy, as I have no clue whatsoever. Be interested to hear more on those motors, though ... the name brand brushless ones can sure get expensive, and finding a cheaper quality alternative is always a plus. Just so long as they can fit onto the plane correctly (having to kind of hack a new mount to get this ELE RC EC28P-L brushless to go onto the GWS Corsair - can't find any stick mounts that fit, and I didn't want to have to make a firewall for the plane).
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Old 11-21-2007, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
I've built one ARF plane so far with another partway through, so you are asking the wrong guy, as I have no clue whatsoever. Be interested to hear more on those motors, though ... the name brand brushless ones can sure get expensive, and finding a cheaper quality alternative is always a plus. Just so long as they can fit onto the plane correctly (having to kind of hack a new mount to get this ELE RC EC28P-L brushless to go onto the GWS Corsair - can't find any stick mounts that fit, and I didn't want to have to make a firewall for the plane).

Dave,

I've got two of the ELE EC28P-L motors on my P-38. At 66 ounces, it flys it fine. It's not a speed demon but it moves along pretty quick. Flys pretty scale.
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:20 AM
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Did you get the E-Flite P-38, too? I need to start another thread, but I'd like to find a good way to use that motor on a stick mount without having to finaggle something together with basswood (though I think with a small piece of wood and a cut-up gearbox from the stock GWS brushed system, it'll fit on fine).

Also need to find a prop adap ... yeah, I need to just start a new thread.
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Old 11-21-2007, 05:23 AM
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Tom thanks for the weight info.Dave heads up rc has the stick mounts for all his 2800 motors.he has the items listed on e-bay.I have one of his motors and it came with a mount I will see if fits and let you know.If you start a new thread let us know.

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Old 11-21-2007, 05:42 AM
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I need to find out what the spacing is on the EC28P-L's mounting holes ... I'll see if I can't find a proper metric ruler tomorrow to pin that down.

Edit: Actually, looking at that picture, I don't think the EC28BP-L wouldn't mount on that correctly, anyway. There aren't any mounting holes on the front like that.

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Old 11-21-2007, 01:12 PM
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Oh heck, what's another project.

Umm first off yeah, I'd come up with the retacts, servos and what all the guts are going to come to weight wise before determining power plants.

The Tower Pro motors mostly come with stick mounts included. Savings there and they are cheap. I run mine on 2410-9Y motors, stock blades.
840 kv if I remember correctly. Provide nice thrust though speed is a little down, but good enough. Somewhere around 30 oz (each) and 50-55 mph.

Mixing throttle with rudder would be the way to go if no steering is used, would also help in flight.

Q/W kudos to your dad, and his service to his country. My story is kind of similar, one of my distant relatives was the man who planned the attack on Yamamoto's flight. And somewhere in the mix was Billy Mitchell, hence my love for the 38s and B25's.


Anyhow back to the subject. Nose gear will take some figuring to get clearances figured out, at least from what I remember on mine. Will have to look at it again.
As for the booms........let's just say one tip over on landing showed me the booms are no more then 1/8" thick hollow foam right at the intakes. Just take a peek inside the servo hatches to see it.

I'm pretty much certain gear doors are going to be out on this one. Though it could be done. So cut outs for the gear need to be clean, not gaping holes.

Then, is it going to be pavement or grass strip, make a lot of difference in how the gear will be set up. Grass means bigger wheels and gear, hence more room needed in the nose and booms. May end up with gear that doesn't fully fold up unseen in the fuselage.

Still thinking single servo, even though it will be a pain to set up, will be the way to go weight wise.

CRAP!, I was planning on finishing my Hangar 9 P40 tonight. Nother one of those "I don't think you can do that birds" Totally hidden controls for rudder/elevator/ailerons. Really cleaned up her looks.

Dam you all for doing this to me.

I'll look at mine and come up with some ideas for ya, but the build is up to you.
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Old 11-21-2007, 02:08 PM
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Hehe, Brad, you crack me up.

I'm thinking this will be a strictly pavement or dirt only lander. When we fly over grass, it's generally too tall for the Super Cub's wheels to go anywhere, and it would take some hefty wheels to land on it. The only exception is one of the soccer fields we fly at, as the middle of the field for about 20 - 30 yards in front of both goals has been beaten down to nothing but dirt.

I'm glad you guys are familiar with other motors, because I still have trouble sizing them up across brands (though I'm getting a little better), and I'd love to not spend $65 per motor if I could get equal performance for less. 30 oz. of thrust each seems like it would pull it along pretty well ... isn't this plane supposed to be around 33 - 40 oz. AUW on the standard build? I should also mention that I just know he is going to want to get those 3-blade FSK props from Hobby Lobby from this if we can swing it. I know that will cut down on the plane's available speed a bit, so I don't know if that will be feasible with retracts in mind, as well.

I read the first few pages of the build thread over at RCG for this plane ... looks like the Park 480 motors were a no-go for the guys who tried them. If they're using Park 450's in that promo video they had, that's still some pretty crazy overkill - they pretty much take off vertically in it!
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Old 11-21-2007, 05:52 PM
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Dave, Mine will take off from grass now, like your's a torn up soccer field.
Umm, yeah I'm past the 1:1 on thrust, and I'll be honest, it's the only P38 I have flying right now that can be horsed off the grass.* It will pull itself vertical from a very short run.

Take a look at the T/P motors and esc's. For less then the $65.00 you mentioned you could have 2 motors and escs from them.

And yeah it ain't a P38 unless it has 3 blades. Just been too busy to get around to that. Did find another similar set of 3 blades from United Hobbies. I installed on on the GWS Corsair I finished recently, I'll let you know how they worked. More of a paddle type blade.

Anyhow, I'll look tonight and see what's what, when you're ready give me a holler and I'll help you make it work.

* ok all of mine can be horsed of the ground, but it's the only one that will continue to keep flying when done so. LOL
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Old 11-21-2007, 09:28 PM
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p.s.

To all you "TURKEYS",,,,,, Happy Thanksgiving!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-21-2007, 09:47 PM
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Back AT YA!! for the Holidays, Every One.

Thats the way War Birds should fly,right?

Quick
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:52 PM
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Some are a lot more forgiving then others. The P38 is a lot like a Mustang.....but twice as evil. Where the P47 EFlite version is a puddy cat to fly, the 38 is also a great flyer but is not one to try and poke around the sky with. Why mine is more then 1:1 on thrust. Oh and landing like I said before is pure fly it till the wheels hit. Mine tends to want to baloon slightly and carry on down the runway when it hits the cushion of air just at touchdown. If you are not carrying enough speed, she will lift off and snap stall instead of just dropping back onto the ground.


Anyhow. Looked at mine on Wed., yeah there is enough room for retracts.
Will take some planning and reinforcement added as I thought.
But it is feasible.

Let me know when you're ready.
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:06 AM
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Well, I planned to buy the motors, ESC's, and retract gear I needed before Christmas so I could give it to him all at once. If you've got an idea of what to buy, them I'm ready to get it, and the build will likely start the week following Christmas.

I can always wait until after Christmas to get the stuff, too. I feel like I'm throwing you out there going, "Find the answers for me, flyboy! And be swift about it!" and I don't like feeling like I'm just siphoning someone for information.

Though that never stops me from PM'ing Tom relentlessly.
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Old 11-24-2007, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
Well, I planned to buy the motors, ESC's, and retract gear I needed before Christmas so I could give it to him all at once. If you've got an idea of what to buy, them I'm ready to get it, and the build will likely start the week following Christmas.

I can always wait until after Christmas to get the stuff, too. I feel like I'm throwing you out there going, "Find the answers for me, flyboy! And be swift about it!" and I don't like feeling like I'm just siphoning someone for information.

Though that never stops me from PM'ing Tom relentlessly.

You're on my ignore list now Dave.

Only kidding. I'm more than happy to help any time I can.
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:10 PM
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Dave, who you giving it to? Hopefully somebody that's got warbird experience?

My set up, Tower Pro 2410-9Y motors and esc's. I just looked on United Hobby/Hobby City's site, you can get two motors and esc's for $36.28 plus shipping. Will spin the stock 10x8's with easy or even a 9x7 three blade no problem. Less then 17 amps combined.

Plenty of thrust and decent speed, for about as cheap as you can get.

If you need them quickly, maybe check out Balsa Products for similar deals. Also check the combo packages(motor and esc) sometimes even cheaper.
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