Beginners - Helis A forum where beginners can get help on the fundamentals for experts who know their stuff!

Beginners NOT welcome

Old 08-26-2006, 03:17 PM
  #1  
Chickenhawk
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Default Beginners NOT welcome

Electric helicopters and the recent improvements in battery technology are revolutionizing the r/c industry as more and more newcomers to the sport are joining every day. I, for one, would not have even considered anything in radio control, let alone a tricky little helicopter until very recently. There are new manufacturers starting up, and many of the big gasser names are going to be releasing electric versions soon.

What a time to be involved in this hobby!

The downside is that your local little hobby store is going to have to play catch-up or is going to be left in the dust. Here in Canada we have some great online hobby stores, but I also like to patronize my local hobby store (LHS) to buy locally and turn to for advice. Unfortunately, every time I walk in the door, I feel like I am intruding. The shop is filled with these old guys that have been in the hobby for decades, and it appears they only barely tolerate my beginner questions. I have been waiting for a Spektrum radio to complete my MX400 Pro build for a month and a half, but every single week they tell me they will be in next week. I dutifully truck down there ... and of course the shipment seems perpetually delayed. I can almost hear the laughter from the backroom as I leave empty handed yet again.

Is it because I am a beginner? Do any of you get treated this way at your LHS?

I am wondering if they have outlived their usefulness considering I can get kits and parts within two days over the internet, and forums like this one are invaluable in providing advice that used to come from the local dealers.

Should I give up on my LHS or give them another chance? My online dealer has been VERY good to me, and if they have an item on backorder that will delay my shipment, they have even called me personally and suggested an alternative.
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Old 08-26-2006, 04:18 PM
  #2  
BlizzardBoy
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Originally Posted by Chickenhawk View Post
Electric helicopters and the recent improvements in battery technology are revolutionizing the r/c industry as more and more newcomers to the sport are joining every day. I, for one, would not have even considered anything in radio control, let alone a tricky little helicopter until very recently. There are new manufacturers starting up, and many of the big gasser names are going to be releasing electric versions soon.

What a time to be involved in this hobby!

The downside is that your local little hobby store is going to have to play catch-up or is going to be left in the dust. Here in Canada we have some great online hobby stores, but I also like to patronize my local hobby store (LHS) to buy locally and turn to for advice. Unfortunately, every time I walk in the door, I feel like I am intruding. The shop is filled with these old guys that have been in the hobby for decades, and it appears they only barely tolerate my beginner questions. I have been waiting for a Spektrum radio to complete my MX400 Pro build for a month and a half, but every single week they tell me they will be in next week. I dutifully truck down there ... and of course the shipment seems perpetually delayed. I can almost hear the laughter from the backroom as I leave empty handed yet again.

Is it because I am a beginner? Do any of you get treated this way at your LHS?

I am wondering if they have outlived their usefulness considering I can get kits and parts within two days over the internet, and forums like this one are invaluable in providing advice that used to come from the local dealers.

Should I give up on my LHS or give them another chance? My online dealer has been VERY good to me, and if they have an item on backorder that will delay my shipment, they have even called me personally and suggested an alternative.
Hello ChickenHawk,

I'm new to the r/c game as well. I recently went out and bought a Blade CP Pro, and have happilly owned it for 5 days. I know what you mean about the feeling of walking into the lhs, and feeling unwanted. At least the guys at my lhs are friendly, and are happy to field questions - or so they act.

If this shipment of goods is taking longer than two weeks, they have not ordered it... Two weeks, I think, gets anything around the world on the ground (slowest method of shipping)? Either way, if they are a distributor, they should have the parts in by now. If you've been waiting for over a month, they have not ordered it. It's not delayed, it's not ordered.

You might want to try phoning 'em before you go down, as that may save you some time. Sadly to say though, I doubt they'll have it in stock, 'cause they don't yet, and you've given them a month and a half.

Depending on where you live, there may be another LHS, relatively nearby. I've got 2 nearby (10 min drive at most) that supply helis and their parts. Try checking your yellow pages under hobbies. I'd be surprised if there is only one lhs (unless you live in a small town or out in the country). You could check this online as well under the yellow pages online.

If you are doomed with trying to get the things you need locally, you might as well try online. It'll cost you a few extra bucks, but how long do you want to wait - your lhs probably will never have it in stock?

Hope this helps,

-- Zan
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Old 08-26-2006, 04:39 PM
  #3  
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You are a customer and they should treat you like a king. If they make you feel uncomfortable or act condescending give you business to someone else on line or otherwise. There is nothing worse than not being treated with respect, especially when you are spending your hard earned cash.

My club is mostly Glo flyers, I fly only electric. 3 years ago when I ST joined they looked down on electric planes. That has changed dramatically. The glo guys were shocked to see my little electric planes out preforming their glo planes in performance and flight duration. My little electric plane was clocked on radar at 97 MPH. The glo guys have a new found respect for electric flight and many of them now own E-Planes, LOL.

BTW, I see you guy are fairly new here [by your # of posts], just incase nobody has said it yet............... WELCOME to Wattflyer!!!!

Good Luck,
CTD
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Old 08-26-2006, 05:02 PM
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Yeah just like what CTD said, they should respect just as much as the next man, like you are their god (cause they don't eat unless you buy stuff from them) - that's why the online guys are treating you well.

If you need any advice, just post on WF - there are many experienced people here that would be glad to help you out. I'm nto one of 'em though, but I can help out with other things! It's also good to get more than one opinion (another reason to use the forum ).

-- Zan
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Old 08-26-2006, 10:29 PM
  #5  
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im with ctd on this one....whether its RC or any retail venture, the customer is the lifeblood, but for some reason many retailers think they are providing you a priveledged service.

i think alot has to do with the days now gone where these shops had an almost lock on importing these goods and could supply what they wanted, charged what they wanted, and - pretty much, serve who they wanted.

you guys reckon you got it bad in Canada?!....
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Old 08-26-2006, 10:51 PM
  #6  
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Hey, thanks for all the encouragement. I bought my first helicopter two months ago. My crazy work schedule does not allow me time to practice much, but I have been bitten BAD. I love this forum and I am now on my fourth helicopter purchase. (I bought my Blade CP online, and it convinced me to learn to fly. I then bought a Blade CX for indoor practice, and a Heli-Max MX400 Pro for outdoors when the wind would overwhelm my BCP - both from my LHS - and I am now going to get a Maxir, which can only be purchased online in western Canada.)

Every purchase has been CAREFULLY researched and considered in light of MY flying ability and what I want to get out of the sport. I am not big on building; I want to fly. Thanks to the many fine people in forums like these, I have been able to structure my purchases in a logical manner.

Well ... sort of. The Blade CP convinced me to try the sport but the Blade CX really taught me the basics of flying. It seems a backwards way to go but like many of you, I found the CP to be a handful to learn on, and wanted something more stable to help the process.

Ironically, I can only hover out a pack tail-in on the CP, so I am not all that advanced quite yet, but I figure if I can learn how to fly a full-size airplane at 17 years old - countless decades ago, by the way - solo it at six hours, and get my licence at 35 hours, I can conquer this challenge.

I would think after two helicopters and a bunch of parts, servos and gyros, my LHS would be more welcoming. On the other hand, with the newfound popularity of electric flight, maybe I am seen as just one more newcomer to the sport who will try it out and eventually get discouraged and leave it to the old gasser pilots.

I even considered joining our Canadian model aviation association; at least I WAS until I read the report from their AGM, and found out they seem to be the worst bunch of bickerers, complainers and "let's-kick-Fred-out-of-the-sport" since figure skating judges.
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Old 08-26-2006, 11:16 PM
  #7  
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Haha, I think I'm one of the most unexperienced helicopter pilots on this entire forum! Everyone seems to have been flying at least some sort of aircraft over a year! Ah well, I guess I'll have to learn to catch up . My skill level: getting the hang of hovering:o.

Have fun,

-- Zan
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Old 08-27-2006, 01:15 AM
  #8  
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im back in the rc field after 20+ years out of it " military service". been back in about four months. my lhs owner is just starting to warm up to me after roughly 50 to 60 visits. a lot of these guys have been in for along time and have seen them come and go. you dont make a friend overnite but if you have the patience to learn to fly an aircraft, you should have the patience to put up with them. if after a while they dont warm up to you. just find another lhs. oldtimers are very clannish. clear skies and good flying
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Old 08-27-2006, 03:28 PM
  #9  
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I've seen both ends of the spectrum, but for the most part the good out weighs the bad.

Every sport has the "cocky" guys who act like their stuff doesn't stink. Just ignore em' one day they will realize that there is only one way out of life
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Old 08-27-2006, 09:54 PM
  #10  
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Thanks again my friends. Good advice. The people are not "unfriendly" so to speak, they are just not very welcoming or accommodating.

I even went to a big western Canada r/c airshow last weekend and saw some AMAZING flying. The winds were gusting past 60 kph, and they STILL flew their planes. There were even a few helicopters there, although the winds pretty much grounded all the electric helis.

The most interesting part was how almost all the younger people there were children of older pilots. While this is great to see and speaks highly of the family nature of the sport, I think the sport needs to have a careful look at what they are doing to encourage total newcomers. The organizers of the airshow had an aisle cleared in front of the crowd where one could walk down the flightline and view the planes close-up, and this was a great idea but I am WAY too old to be trying to penetrate a group of old gasser pilots hoping for some acceptance.

Thirty years ago, I started in another sport that was very similar in how they treated newcomers, but eventually I was able to advance enough to the point that I was able to affect change. In addition to teaching advanced skill clinics, I always made it a point to conduct introductory workshops and strictly fun events just for people who were even thinking they would like to try the sport once or twice for fun. Even today, that sport I began in thirty years ago has now become my career and I still make it a practice to get new people out there trying it for fun.

As an update, I just ordered my radio and servos from my internet supplier and they will be at my doorstep on Tuesday.

And for Blizzardboy, I was just like you about a month ago. The two biggest things I have learned about my Blade is to spend the time to trim it exactly perfect, even if it means a short hop up and down to retrim. (I am not yet to the point that I would even consider trying to tab a trim button in flight!) and I added two more flybar collar weights to the ends of the flybar to help stabilize it. (I bought a pack of 1/16" wheel collars.)

I have avoided any "bling" parts because this is my cheap trainer heli, but I did get a 1320 Li-Po battery and the motor from the aeorbatic enhancement kit, and this helped a lot. (I still use the flat-bottomed blades.)
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Old 08-27-2006, 11:09 PM
  #11  
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Sorry, what is trimming?

I understand a bit about helicopters, but i'm unfamiliar with the lingo, 'cause I really don't have anyone to ask. Neither my family or friends fly, so I'll left out in the wind - haha, figuratively and literally.

Thanks,

-- Zan
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Old 08-28-2006, 12:00 AM
  #12  
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On your transmitter there are trim tabs that adjust the position of the servo arm to your liking.

basically you adjust the trims on the transmitter so the heli flies "level" or "neutral" without stick input

Does that make sense? Hope it helps!
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Old 08-28-2006, 05:12 AM
  #13  
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Oh!:o

Well, I know what you are talking about. Mine is way off... and I'm sort of frusterated with it. I've read the manual a couple of times (so I can fix in the field) and yet it doesn't say anything about trimming, or drift problems. My heli drifts to the right, and backwards a bit. So far, I've been compensating with the remote, using the balancers, which I guess are the trims?, but it's still a pain in the... rear.

How do I fix this on the heli? I'm willing to put in time... not so much money... but time to fix it! I just don't know how to - and I don't want to break something either. Is there some screw or something that I turn to change its neutral position?

Could someone help me out?

Thanks,

-- Zan
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Old 08-28-2006, 05:18 AM
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PM sent....don't want to get off topic
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Old 09-06-2006, 03:34 AM
  #15  
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I have had the same treatment from my lhs. Almost like I'm putting them out by asking them if they have a part I'm looking for. I've been flying r/c planes for about six months now. Thanks to forums like this one I have learned alot. I buy alot of stuff on-line and I'm very happy with the service. The shipping cost is often less then the sales tax would have been if I bought it local. The lesson for shop owners is treat everyone like they are going to drop some serious coin on some gear and they just might. I guess they know we're addicted and will come around when we need our fix. I have met a couple of pretty cool guys that have been very helpful and I usually buy from them.
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Old 09-06-2006, 04:01 PM
  #16  
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Chickenhawk, instead of letting yourself be needlessly intimidated by your perceptions, try reaching out to these guys and see if you can break the ice.

The problem with this hobby is that it attracts a certain personality type for the most part that is the quiet, introverted type that is uncomfortable and easily intimidated by unfamiliar people or situations. It's likely that they're as intimidated, or MORE intimidated by you than you are by them. They're familiar. You're not. You're young. They're not.
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Old 09-06-2006, 08:43 PM
  #17  
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Hey, thanks very much for the compliment, but I am FAR from young. I am almost as old as most of them. It's not really the age thing, and they don't really intimidate me that much (I work every day with some of the biggest names in Hollywood, so I don't get intimidated easily) but I think you are right on about the personality thing.

I can also understand from my own line of work about how difficult it is to learn a skill like this, especially when you watch people who make it look easy. It's just a shame that some of those same people forget how confused, wide-eyed and all-thumbs they were in the beginning too.

(Well, okay ... maybe "all-thumbs" is not the right expression for this sport, although I personally use a finger-thumb pinch, instead of two thumbs like most of you Nintendo generation.)

Just to show you how old I am, our first TV set when I was a kid was black & white, only got the CBC, and we watched it for HOURS on a Sunday night. Our first video game was called Pong and we spent HOURS watching that stupid thing, too. I also remember when milk was delivered to every house on your street, the government encouraged households to build fallout shelters in their back yard, and I even remember when Tom Cruise was known for his ACTING, if you can believe it.)
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Old 09-09-2006, 09:38 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Chickenhawk View Post
Hey, thanks very much for the compliment, but I am FAR from young. I am almost as old as most of them. It's not really the age thing, and they don't really intimidate me that much (I work every day with some of the biggest names in Hollywood, so I don't get intimidated easily) but I think you are right on about the personality thing.

I can also understand from my own line of work about how difficult it is to learn a skill like this, especially when you watch people who make it look easy. It's just a shame that some of those same people forget how confused, wide-eyed and all-thumbs they were in the beginning too.

(Well, okay ... maybe "all-thumbs" is not the right expression for this sport, although I personally use a finger-thumb pinch, instead of two thumbs like most of you Nintendo generation.)

Just to show you how old I am, our first TV set when I was a kid was black & white, only got the CBC, and we watched it for HOURS on a Sunday night. Our first video game was called Pong and we spent HOURS watching that stupid thing, too. I also remember when milk was delivered to every house on your street, the government encouraged households to build fallout shelters in their back yard, and I even remember when Tom Cruise was known for his ACTING, if you can believe it.)

LOL...
You are an old fart like me...
I remember when the TV remote was my dad telling me to turn to the other channel and when Mick Jagger's face had less wrinkles then his clothes...
As for the lhs thing, I'm very lucky in having one in walking distance that has been in business for many years. It is run by wonderful people that really care. Even when I can buy something on-line for a bit less, I still buy from this lhs. The reasons are that I can have that something in hand right away but more importantly, they have been loyal to me over the years in providing me with excellent service so I am loyal to them.
The best thing about this lhs is that it is family run. When I first went in many years ago, my son had not been born yet. Now, the same shop is run mostly by the kids of original owner and my son, now in his final year of high school, also shops there. The people at this shop know that in order to survive, they must bring in new lines of products AND new people into the old product lines. To that end, this lhs brought in die cast cars when they became collectable, trains when customers asked and Warhammer when the kids came looking. They spend time talking to kids who know what they want and to parents who don't know what their kids want.
If you lhs is not treating you well, you should look elsewhere. With on-line sales growing as it has these past years, these shops have to learn, as my local shop has, that service is their best asset.
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Old 09-09-2006, 08:54 PM
  #19  
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HA-HA I had similar probs at my local store, but when I went back some time later wanting a few bits for my internet bought heli, their ears pricked up. funny enough within a week or two, learner fix pitch helis appeared for sale. Now when I walk in they are very curious as to what Im getting up to. & now Im looking to buy a T-REX size heli, just so happens a rep will be coming in soon with their latest! The owner of the local store is busy getting an internet site built so he can sell out of hours. Know what you mean about the "wise old men" syndrome also-OMG they could talk a glass eye to sleep! (Im sure they wear IC fuel as aftershave) Mind you most of them never been near a heli or admit they cant even get one to hover! So stick at it & give them that knowing stare & treat them like a near & dear old relative-bless em.
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Old 09-30-2006, 05:21 AM
  #20  
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Keep in mind that most hobby shops in my area do not specialize in helis at all. I am a novice and find myself updating the LHS about new things such as parts and new products. I am lucky if the one heli expert they employ is even in the store and if he is, he seems stuck up and unwilling to talk about heli stuff at all. I think his logic is he gets paid for his skills and no free advice. Seems harsh but it took me all of about a month to figure out that he was just a jerk. I met a fellow customer with some experience and he was kind enough to talk helis with me. Try finding out if there are any local clubs in your area. I have found that fellow enthusiast are more willing to help you than the so called professionals. My hobby shop is great, the staff is great but they know very little about helis they only employ one guy as a part time employee. The other hobby shop is pretty good but I get the same feeling that they want to be paid for any advice or help. They will talk about the product but not about technical help.

Online message boards are the way to go this site and many like it have been the difference between flying and giving up. Thanks to all those who have helped me. LHS is becoming obsolete because you can get products, parts, and help all online sans the attitude. I know the exact feeling you are getting. I am sure that not all hobby shops are like that but obviously some are and that is a shame.
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Old 10-23-2006, 07:30 AM
  #21  
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Chickenhawk,

Just wondering what online sources you use within Canada. I'm in Calgary and the LHS around here are alot of old boys that are not at all friendly!
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Old 10-23-2006, 09:16 AM
  #22  
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I would just flat out ask if the LHS wanted my business and let them know that reasonable service would be expected. No need to be upset about it. just explain your position and let them choose. If they want your money and are good businessmen/women they will listen to you. your money talks. They're not doing you a favor. you're putting food in their mouths.
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Old 10-29-2006, 06:53 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Stumper View Post
Chickenhawk,

Just wondering what online sources you use within Canada. I'm in Calgary and the LHS around here are alot of old boys that are not at all friendly!
I deal with Great Hobbies. (greathobbies dot com) They have wonderful service and get me what I need in days. There was even a situation where the post office sent one of my packages to a local postal outlet because i wasn't home, and when I went to pick it up, the outlet was closed both times I tried it. Apparently, the Canada Post notice had the incorrect times printed for the local postal outlet. Great Hobbies actually refunded my ENTIRE shipping costs on that order even though it had nothing to do with them.

Great people.

If I need a product that is not listed on their website, I call their technical order line and they can usually get it from their suppliers when they do reorders.

On the other hand, the one guy I try to deal with at my LHS is an AMAZING heli pilot, and if he didn't just work there part time, I would go down more often.
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Old 10-30-2006, 06:36 AM
  #24  
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Hehe... I get the same treatment from 3 outta the four LHS in my area (I really like the fourth... but we need to talk about inventory here... they treat me very well, but they don't often have what I am looking for. "We can get it pretty quickly" is the reply... well, guess what. So can I.)

Brutal E: I spent 10 minutes trying to explain to one LHS employee (half my age - and rather bull-headed) that I really did own a HDX450SE... it was *not* a MX400... He never got it... nor my business.

I've spent a huge amount of money in this hobby - I've got 20 or so invoices (from online shops, no less) in the last four or five months alone - anywhere from $50 to $700... averaging $250-$300 (I also buy in bulk - it's cheaper in the long run).

It's sad... because the local shops have to compete with the net... and that could be difficult, at best. Why I cut 'em a bit of slack... but I bet someone with a bit of marketing savy could double their profits in just a few months - with just a bit of research.

Here's the kicker... the one LHS that I really enjoy is the one that has been around the longest... over 30 years that I am aware of. I *love* to just kick it back with the owner and talk about flying (he was a fullscale pilot)... prolly why I like that one so much (I showed him pics of my airplane and tears welled up in his eyes) - but we've known each other for a while... but he's still lost a lot of my business, and I've told him so. Not sure he cares, really... close to retirement (I'm guessing - but he's about 70) and his wife does most of the business.

*big sigh*
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:04 PM
  #25  
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Went into my LHS today to pick up some balsa for a little project I've started, & ended up ordering a TREX & spare's for him to sell instore. He's just opened an account with Robbe & was unsure of what to order. I'm sure it will cost me more to buy from him. but I will try & order as much as I can from him, as I value "the human touch" & without his support,( he helped with my 1st FP model) many people might not take up RC or get their finger's burnt with internet purchase's & no support.
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