SUPER Quick Delta Scratch Build
03-19-2007, 07:20 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by skiman762
Here's another cg calc I ran the numbers in here and it confirmed my figures if you look at the delta picture on website 2 it's says to put the cg 10% ahead of the AC which they calc as 25%of MAC so that would make 15% of MAC I used
root chord 21''
tip chord 8''
sweep dis. 13''
halfspan 10''
%of mac 15
and it came up with a cg of 8.11''
1. http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/cg_calc.htm#cg
2. http://adamone.rchomepage.com/index5.htm
Can someone look it over and see if they come up with the same numbers before I launch this thing into the twilight zone
thanks
root chord 21''
tip chord 8''
sweep dis. 13''
halfspan 10''
%of mac 15
and it came up with a cg of 8.11''
1. http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/cg_calc.htm#cg
2. http://adamone.rchomepage.com/index5.htm
Can someone look it over and see if they come up with the same numbers before I launch this thing into the twilight zone
thanks
Hi, I was adding the wind factor into the CG, start at 7" and work back from there ,I was landing into the wind, and I cut off to much power, and I brought it in at too much of a steep angle, and it tore off the bottom skid, and broke the prop, 5 min Epoxy & 10 mins later it was fixed
this is a tough little plane, it will take a lot, take care, Chellie
CG update, People are having good luck with a 7" to 9 CG, on this delta, give it a try
Last edited by CHELLIE; 05-04-2007 at 06:38 AM.
03-20-2007, 04:19 AM
#127
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
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Delta Flying Tips
Hi Everyone This was my first Delta Ever, so it was a learning experence for me, here is what I have learned about them.
1. They are Fast & Fun
2. they dont have the front lift like a plane with a forward wing does, so
you have to bring them in low and level when landing, steep glides
dont work very well for landing,
3. need to land them a little on the fast side.
4. when turning, they need a little more up with the turn than a regular
plane.
5. they will barrel roll very fast
6. The CG can be a little tricky to optain, a 1/4 to 1/2" makes a big
differance.
7. on this delta, start with a 7" cg and move it around from there untill
you are happy with the flight performance, I tend to like my planes
a little on the nose heavy side.
8. glue a piece of string about 4" long at the CG, and leave it there,
that will help with the cg when changing batteries and allowes you
to check the Lateral, wing to wing tip balance at the same time.
9. Add about 2 clicks of up before launching, that helps a lot.
thats about it, I am learning too with these deltas, Soooo If anyone can add to this thread, what they have learned , we can all teach each other, Take care & have fun, Chellie
CG update, people are having good luck with a 7" to 9 " CG , try it,
This was my first Delta Ever, so it was a learning experence for me, here is what I have learned about them.1. They are Fast & Fun
2. they dont have the front lift like a plane with a forward wing does, so
you have to bring them in low and level when landing, steep glides
dont work very well for landing,
3. need to land them a little on the fast side.
4. when turning, they need a little more up with the turn than a regular
plane.
5. they will barrel roll very fast
6. The CG can be a little tricky to optain, a 1/4 to 1/2" makes a big
differance.
7. on this delta, start with a 7" cg and move it around from there untill
you are happy with the flight performance, I tend to like my planes
a little on the nose heavy side.
8. glue a piece of string about 4" long at the CG, and leave it there,
that will help with the cg when changing batteries and allowes you
to check the Lateral, wing to wing tip balance at the same time.
9. Add about 2 clicks of up before launching, that helps a lot.
thats about it, I am learning too with these deltas, Soooo If anyone can add to this thread, what they have learned , we can all teach each other, Take care & have fun, Chellie
CG update, people are having good luck with a 7" to 9 " CG , try it,
Last edited by CHELLIE; 05-04-2007 at 06:39 AM. Reason: Cg update info
03-20-2007, 06:47 AM
#128
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bothell, Washington (by Seattle)
Posts: 3,445
Good advise Chellie,
Generally to find my CG I use about 35% from the nose on deltas as a starting point. I put a 6" strip of Velcro at the center of my guessed at CG and can move the battery around till I find the sweet spot. All my deltas have some small amount of washout or control surfaces raised slightly and thats fairly normal.
The delta will be balanced correctly when it can fly inverted with minor down input from your transmitter or at least thats what I use to test.
Don't be afraid to make changes or add to the design as most delta shapes will fly.
Generally to find my CG I use about 35% from the nose on deltas as a starting point. I put a 6" strip of Velcro at the center of my guessed at CG and can move the battery around till I find the sweet spot. All my deltas have some small amount of washout or control surfaces raised slightly and thats fairly normal.
The delta will be balanced correctly when it can fly inverted with minor down input from your transmitter or at least thats what I use to test.
Don't be afraid to make changes or add to the design as most delta shapes will fly.
03-20-2007, 07:59 AM
#129
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
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Thank you Kosh That helps, these deltas are a lot of fun, what makes them a little different, is that first, you are flying a flat wing aircraft, that has its own flight characteristics, then on top of that, you are flying a Delta, with its flight Characteristics, so someone that has not flown a flat wing plane, will have some getting used to, and someone that has not flown a delta, will have some more getting used to the characteristics of both, so i can see where it might be a little hard for someone that has not flown a delta before or a flat wing aircraft before and having to handle both at the same time, gee i never thought about that before, I was lucky, because I have flown a flat wing plane, Rusty at RC Products, makes some very nice planes, very reasonable too, I like his Mavrick 2, its a Sweet Flier, and only $12.00 here is his link if anyone would like one.
I have 2 of them, and they are sweet, and roll fast.
http://www.rc-products.net/
Kosh is the Expert on these deltas, so if anyone has any questions on deltas, Kosh is the person to seek out, he is Sharp on these, but I am getting there slowly take care everyone, Chellie
That helps, these deltas are a lot of fun, what makes them a little different, is that first, you are flying a flat wing aircraft, that has its own flight characteristics, then on top of that, you are flying a Delta, with its flight Characteristics, so someone that has not flown a flat wing plane, will have some getting used to, and someone that has not flown a delta, will have some more getting used to the characteristics of both, so i can see where it might be a little hard for someone that has not flown a delta before or a flat wing aircraft before and having to handle both at the same time, gee i never thought about that before, I was lucky, because I have flown a flat wing plane, Rusty at RC Products, makes some very nice planes, very reasonable too, I like his Mavrick 2, its a Sweet Flier, and only $12.00 here is his link if anyone would like one.I have 2 of them, and they are sweet, and roll fast.
http://www.rc-products.net/
Kosh is the Expert on these deltas, so if anyone has any questions on deltas, Kosh is the person to seek out, he is Sharp on these, but I am getting there slowly
take care everyone, Chellie
03-20-2007, 09:01 AM
#132
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Hi Kosh check out the pusher jet that Jay @ GITech and Myself are getting ready for market, its a speedcat that has been improved greatly, the original has a 22" wing span and 5" between the booms, this one has a 30" wing span and 8" between the booms, and a bigger draft under the wing, the original only had a 1/2" draft under the wing, and we are developing a 4 foot long Giant Hydro, here is a pic of the cat
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...=13305&page=17
well its my bed time, Good nite all, Chellie
check out the pusher jet that Jay @ GITech and Myself are getting ready for market, its a speedcat that has been improved greatly, the original has a 22" wing span and 5" between the booms, this one has a 30" wing span and 8" between the booms, and a bigger draft under the wing, the original only had a 1/2" draft under the wing, and we are developing a 4 foot long Giant Hydro, here is a pic of the cathttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...=13305&page=17
well its my bed time, Good nite all, Chellie
03-20-2007, 02:34 PM
#133
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,008
Here's a website I found it has some info on design and cg
http://www.flybyphotography.com/CrazyHerb/index.htm
AlsoI have had some luck with settling down the hunt that flat wings tend to have
If you want to try it on one of your experimently planes take some 2 or 3 mm foam and laminate it on the leading edge about 2 inch strips top and bottom and round off the leading edge it fools the wing into thinking it has a real airfoil instead of being flat
Also you can do a 1 inch strip of 6mm followed by a 1 inch strip of 3mm on some of my lighter designs it stiffened the wing up and I didn't need carbon spars
If you want more lift just do the top side it makes the wing a tad longer accross the top and if you use a 3mm flight control on a 6mm wing taped level with top of the wing the effect is even greater
there's so much to learn and explore when you build your own
some times you come home with a big grin on your face and sometimes holding a bag full of foam scraps
But you always come home with new found knowledge
Hopefully I will get my delta mods done and remaiden this week so I can post a flight report on the the new cg position
We should start us a foamy club and each design a plane
then each month or so the group can take the plan apply their knowledge to it and we would come up with some neat planes that really fly everyone here has something to offer to the design and I think it would be a blast to read the build and flight reports
and foam is cheap so no one will go broke
http://www.flybyphotography.com/CrazyHerb/index.htm
AlsoI have had some luck with settling down the hunt that flat wings tend to have
If you want to try it on one of your experimently planes take some 2 or 3 mm foam and laminate it on the leading edge about 2 inch strips top and bottom and round off the leading edge it fools the wing into thinking it has a real airfoil instead of being flat
Also you can do a 1 inch strip of 6mm followed by a 1 inch strip of 3mm on some of my lighter designs it stiffened the wing up and I didn't need carbon spars
If you want more lift just do the top side it makes the wing a tad longer accross the top and if you use a 3mm flight control on a 6mm wing taped level with top of the wing the effect is even greater
there's so much to learn and explore when you build your own
some times you come home with a big grin on your face
and sometimes holding a bag full of foam scraps But you always come home with new found knowledge
Hopefully I will get my delta mods done and remaiden this week so I can post a flight report on the the new cg position
We should start us a foamy club and each design a plane
then each month or so the group can take the plan apply their knowledge to it and we would come up with some neat planes that really fly everyone here has something to offer to the design and I think it would be a blast to read the build and flight reports
and foam is cheap so no one will go broke
03-20-2007, 09:55 PM
#134
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
That sounds like a Awesome Idea Skiman762 , the foamboard is cheap, and i have a few builds here on wattflyer that anyone can do, and maybe make them better, take care, Chellie
03-20-2007, 10:47 PM
#135
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bothell, Washington (by Seattle)
Posts: 3,445
Love the Speedcat and really like the 7x6 prop choice. Having that much space allows for so many motor combos that I want one. I have always likes the cat series and think this will be a sure winner.
03-21-2007, 03:35 AM
#136
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
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Originally Posted by Kosh
Love the Speedcat and really like the 7x6 prop choice. Having that much space allows for so many motor combos that I want one. I have always likes the cat series and think this will be a sure winner.
that was the goal, to make a pusher thats not to small or big, and have a nice big area for a wide range of motor/prop combos, myself and jay will be doing some R&D on this cat to make it a easy flier, yet have unlimited vertical, I think that a 2409-12 will do that real nice, as it has the power of a OS LA 15 size glow engine, and we are doing a giant hydro too, that should be fun, This Foam stuff is sure addicting and at work, I have foamonthebrain, We should have this Pusher on the market real soon, I an sending Jay the proto type tomorrow, to do some testing on it, and I am building another one to do my own testing, and tooling up to turn them out 
Take care & I still think that your having to much fun Chellie
03-21-2007, 08:03 AM
#137
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Originally Posted by skiman762
Here's a website I found it has some info on design and cg
http://www.flybyphotography.com/CrazyHerb/index.htm
AlsoI have had some luck with settling down the hunt that flat wings tend to have
If you want to try it on one of your experimently planes take some 2 or 3 mm foam and laminate it on the leading edge about 2 inch strips top and bottom and round off the leading edge it fools the wing into thinking it has a real airfoil instead of being flat
Also you can do a 1 inch strip of 6mm followed by a 1 inch strip of 3mm on some of my lighter designs it stiffened the wing up and I didn't need carbon spars
If you want more lift just do the top side it makes the wing a tad longer accross the top and if you use a 3mm flight control on a 6mm wing taped level with top of the wing the effect is even greater
there's so much to learn and explore when you build your own
some times you come home with a big grin on your face and sometimes holding a bag full of foam scraps
But you always come home with new found knowledge
Hopefully I will get my delta mods done and remaiden this week so I can post a flight report on the the new cg position
We should start us a foamy club and each design a plane
then each month or so the group can take the plan apply their knowledge to it and we would come up with some neat planes that really fly everyone here has something to offer to the design and I think it would be a blast to read the build and flight reports
and foam is cheap so no one will go broke
http://www.flybyphotography.com/CrazyHerb/index.htm
AlsoI have had some luck with settling down the hunt that flat wings tend to have
If you want to try it on one of your experimently planes take some 2 or 3 mm foam and laminate it on the leading edge about 2 inch strips top and bottom and round off the leading edge it fools the wing into thinking it has a real airfoil instead of being flat
Also you can do a 1 inch strip of 6mm followed by a 1 inch strip of 3mm on some of my lighter designs it stiffened the wing up and I didn't need carbon spars
If you want more lift just do the top side it makes the wing a tad longer accross the top and if you use a 3mm flight control on a 6mm wing taped level with top of the wing the effect is even greater
there's so much to learn and explore when you build your own
some times you come home with a big grin on your face
and sometimes holding a bag full of foam scraps But you always come home with new found knowledge
Hopefully I will get my delta mods done and remaiden this week so I can post a flight report on the the new cg position
We should start us a foamy club and each design a plane
then each month or so the group can take the plan apply their knowledge to it and we would come up with some neat planes that really fly everyone here has something to offer to the design and I think it would be a blast to read the build and flight reports
and foam is cheap so no one will go broke
Hi SKIMAN762
thats a lot of great info. I like the build up edge idea, I am going to try it on one of the pusher prototypes, ease of handling is one of the areas that we are looking for, so that is something to check out, maybe even a piece of balsa shaped to contoure the wing and glued in place, that will eliminate having to use carbon fiber rod/tube and make the leading strong, great Idea, something to look at for sure , take care & have fun, Chellie
03-21-2007, 08:33 AM
#138
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Foamy Club
Ok Skiman762 Start the Club, I am In, Now for a Club name Hmmmm
I will give some ideas, (1) RC FOAMAHOLICS , I will drink to that (2) RC CHEAP SKATES ,How am I doing so far (3) THE CRASH AND BURN CLUB, (4) EXTREME FOAM FLYERS , (5) INNOVATIVE RCRS , may want to start a new thread, and see who will be interested, Take care, Chellie
Start the Club, I am In, Now for a Club name HmmmmI will give some ideas, (1) RC FOAMAHOLICS , I will drink to that
(2) RC CHEAP SKATES ,How am I doing so far (3) THE CRASH AND BURN CLUB, (4) EXTREME FOAM FLYERS , (5) INNOVATIVE RCRS , may want to start a new thread, and see who will be interested, Take care, Chellie
03-21-2007, 02:08 PM
#139
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,008
Originally Posted by CHELLIE
Hi SKIMAN762 thats a lot of great info. I like the build up edge idea, I am going to try it on one of the pusher prototypes, ease of handling is one of the areas that we are looking for, so that is something to check out, maybe even a piece of balsa shaped to contoure the wing and glued in place, that will eliminate having to use carbon fiber rod/tube and make the leading strong, great Idea, something to look at for sure , take care & have fun, Chellie
thats a lot of great info. I like the build up edge idea, I am going to try it on one of the pusher prototypes, ease of handling is one of the areas that we are looking for, so that is something to check out, maybe even a piece of balsa shaped to contoure the wing and glued in place, that will eliminate having to use carbon fiber rod/tube and make the leading strong, great Idea, something to look at for sure , take care & have fun, ChellieI've only played with a little so far but it does help with pitch stability from what can tell and doesn't add muchweight make sure you bevel the trialing edge before you glue it on or most likely you'll sand a groove in the wing trying to do it afterwards
03-21-2007, 02:27 PM
#140
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,008
Originally Posted by CHELLIE
Ok Skiman762 Start the Club, I am In, Now for a Club name Hmmmm
I will give some ideas, (1) RC FOAMAHOLICS , I will drink to that (2) RC CHEAP SKATES ,How am I doing so far (3) THE CRASH AND BURN CLUB, (4) EXTREME FOAM FLYERS , (5) INNOVATIVE RCRS , may want to start a new thread, and see who will be interested, Take care, Chellie
Start the Club, I am In, Now for a Club name HmmmmI will give some ideas, (1) RC FOAMAHOLICS , I will drink to that
(2) RC CHEAP SKATES ,How am I doing so far (3) THE CRASH AND BURN CLUB, (4) EXTREME FOAM FLYERS , (5) INNOVATIVE RCRS , may want to start a new thread, and see who will be interested, Take care, ChellieOk well at least there are two founding members
we'll need some rules to keep it simple
lets keep it limited to wings and deltas
Designs must show original concepts no copies there must be somethong different about the design I know it's hard to do with a basic wing or delta but that's what will make it fun
must be made of flat foam with no bending allowed
Once we have 4-5 designs we will stop the design phase and start the build phase until all the designs have be built and tested then if we're still having fun we can do it again
some names umm
1. Flat Pack Flyers
2. Flat Foam Fanatics
03-21-2007, 03:03 PM
#141
Ouch
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 281
Originally Posted by skiman762
Ok well at least there are two founding members
we'll need some rules to keep it simple
lets keep it limited to wings and deltas
Designs must show original concepts no copies there must be somethong different about the design I know it's hard to do with a basic wing or delta but that's what will make it fun
must be made of flat foam with no bending allowed
Once we have 4-5 designs we will stop the design phase and start the build phase until all the designs have be built and tested then if we're still having fun we can do it again
some names umm
1. Flat Pack Flyers
2. Flat Foam Fanatics
we'll need some rules to keep it simple
lets keep it limited to wings and deltas
Designs must show original concepts no copies there must be somethong different about the design I know it's hard to do with a basic wing or delta but that's what will make it fun
must be made of flat foam with no bending allowed
Once we have 4-5 designs we will stop the design phase and start the build phase until all the designs have be built and tested then if we're still having fun we can do it again
some names umm
1. Flat Pack Flyers
2. Flat Foam Fanatics
03-21-2007, 03:54 PM
#142
FFFC
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,008
Chellie
How about this for a name
The Flat Foam Flying Circus
cause you know there's going to be some laughs during some of the maidens
I started a post
so far it's
Skiman762
Chellie
BatteriesIncluded
smokejohnson
How about this for a name
The Flat Foam Flying Circus
cause you know there's going to be some laughs during some of the maidens
I started a post
so far it's
Skiman762
Chellie
BatteriesIncluded
smokejohnson
03-21-2007, 09:23 PM
#143
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Originally Posted by skiman762
Chellie
How about this for a name
The Flat Foam Flying Circus
cause you know there's going to be some laughs during some of the maidens
I started a post
so far it's
Skiman762
Chellie
BatteriesIncluded
smokejohnson
How about this for a name
The Flat Foam Flying Circus
cause you know there's going to be some laughs during some of the maidens
I started a post
so far it's
Skiman762
Chellie
BatteriesIncluded
smokejohnson
Take care everyone, Chellie
03-21-2007, 09:52 PM
#144
GA-Flyer
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 159
Weeeeee I have a design already and yep, its different alright, I rarely do the norm anyway....lol I will need some hand-holding but I have learned a lot reading these posts, I pick up quickly and this will be my first bird...patterned after a Chevy Corvette (1978, I forgot what Gen that is)
Have we started yet??
Doyle
Have we started yet??
Doyle
03-22-2007, 04:26 AM
#145
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,323
Originally Posted by GA-Flyer
Weeeeee I have a design already and yep, its different alright, I rarely do the norm anyway....lol I will need some hand-holding but I have learned a lot reading these posts, I pick up quickly and this will be my first bird...patterned after a Chevy Corvette (1978, I forgot what Gen that is)
Have we started yet??
Doyle
Have we started yet??
Doyle
take care, Chelliehttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17498
03-22-2007, 05:37 PM
#146
Ouch
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 281
Well I have an update on my delta. I noticed that the plane was well underpowered using a 300 2S gear so I put on what I had which was a 350 D gear, I had to use a 10x4.7 prop with this motor and I still feel it's underpowered which leads me to believe the entire thing is too heavy. However, It did fly briefly. I started to play a bit with CG and found the best level flight at 7". I've gone through three props and I'm still not happy so I have removed all of the electronics, etc from the plane, took the "rudder" off (easy since I left the paper on) and will now start over again by soaking it to get the paper off of it. My goal was to learn and experiment and I really have to say I learned alot so far. Not bad for a $1.00 foam board.
I've ordered a whole bunch of new props, 2 more brushed geared motors, a brushless (2408-21) and will be ready to start over again this weekend. Time to get serious!
I've ordered a whole bunch of new props, 2 more brushed geared motors, a brushless (2408-21) and will be ready to start over again this weekend. Time to get serious!
03-22-2007, 06:02 PM
#147
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,008
Gary you might look at the blue fan fold you get 50' 4' wide for about 30-35 bucks it will last you along time takes glue and paint well and it tougher then depron but not as stiff and smooth but still works great
I am using it for prototypes and if I get one I really like I can make it in depron and do a nice paint job on it
If you don't have lots of brushed stuff it's time to wean off it and go brushless/lipo that will put a big smile on your face for sure
I am using it for prototypes and if I get one I really like I can make it in depron and do a nice paint job on it
If you don't have lots of brushed stuff it's time to wean off it and go brushless/lipo that will put a big smile on your face for sure
03-22-2007, 06:40 PM
#148
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 5,687
So I started cutting out my first delta. So far so good. It does look a little funny, didn't realize it was so big. It's off to the bath tub for a good soaking to get the paper off. Don't know about a glass of wine, I may try a little bourbon and see how that works for me.
03-22-2007, 10:06 PM
#149
Ouch
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 281
Originally Posted by skiman762
Gary you might look at the blue fan fold
If you don't have lots of brushed stuff it's time to wean off it and go brushless/lipo that will put a big smile on your face for sure
03-23-2007, 02:39 AM
#150
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bothell, Washington (by Seattle)
Posts: 3,445
BatteriesIncluded, That motor and gear set is made to turn a 12x6 prop really so its no wonder it feels down on power. B or C gearing is what it really needed if your running a brushed motor but will surely fly better with a bigger prop for now.
Off to a good start there Smokejohnson looks great.
Off to a good start there Smokejohnson looks great.
