Wing Dragon/Wing Dragon 4/Begin-Air Series Planes Tips & Tricks
03-20-2010, 08:45 PM
#76
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cheshire, UK
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IanH
Nice looking plane and another crystal clear pic!
Do try and get a LiPo.
I started out with a 9.6V 1000 mAh NiMh and brushed motor in my WD4. With a brushless motor I went to a 3s 1500mAh LiPo (11.1V) and it still weighed less than the NiMh battery.
Now I only need full power if I want to go straight up!
Nice looking plane and another crystal clear pic!
Do try and get a LiPo.
I started out with a 9.6V 1000 mAh NiMh and brushed motor in my WD4. With a brushless motor I went to a 3s 1500mAh LiPo (11.1V) and it still weighed less than the NiMh battery.
Now I only need full power if I want to go straight up!
03-21-2010, 02:53 AM
#77
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 132
"latest lightweight "mid set" tailplane.
As it has no control rods I don't mind if the boom moves a bit, in fact I twist it to make sure the tailplane and wing are lined up correctly."
That is fantastic....what did you use for your new tail section and what is the correct alignment??
As it has no control rods I don't mind if the boom moves a bit, in fact I twist it to make sure the tailplane and wing are lined up correctly."
That is fantastic....what did you use for your new tail section and what is the correct alignment??
03-21-2010, 09:02 PM
#78
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Location: Cheshire, UK
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colvid
This is the latest incarnation of my Wing Dragon
It has no rudder, the elevator servo (3.7g) is in the lower part of the fin and the servo wire runs inside the tail tube.
The upper fin is just a 3mm Depron plate. The tailplane is two layers of 3mm Depron with a tapered balsa spar inside.
The TX has been modified to switch the rudder control to a knob to operate the flaps so the built up Depron wing has 4x3.7g servos, 2 for the ailerons (set to give differential movement) and 2 for the flaps that go down to a maximum of 60 degrees.
With a 1500mAh 3s LiPo and brushless motor it weighs just 16oz all up (30% lighter than stock) so it has both a remarkable performance and duration.
This is the latest incarnation of my Wing Dragon
It has no rudder, the elevator servo (3.7g) is in the lower part of the fin and the servo wire runs inside the tail tube.
The upper fin is just a 3mm Depron plate. The tailplane is two layers of 3mm Depron with a tapered balsa spar inside.
The TX has been modified to switch the rudder control to a knob to operate the flaps so the built up Depron wing has 4x3.7g servos, 2 for the ailerons (set to give differential movement) and 2 for the flaps that go down to a maximum of 60 degrees.
With a 1500mAh 3s LiPo and brushless motor it weighs just 16oz all up (30% lighter than stock) so it has both a remarkable performance and duration.
05-18-2010, 08:17 PM
#81
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Location: Cheshire, UK
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Flydave
The original WD4 ailerons are tape hinged on their lower side which is a bit odd as the horns are on the bottom as well.
I did 3 things which would be easy to do if you are starting with a WD3 wing:
1. Recess each servo fully into the wing to reduce drag.
2. Set the servo arm 45 degrees forward to give mechanical differential movement (more up than down)
3. Use a top surface tape hinge
The result is rather better streamlining and aileron turns that are virtually neutral with no rudder required.
This was the beginning of a long development process to make my WD really go, in fact this is the latest 'light weight' version
It weighs just 14.9 oz yet has 18 oz thrust at full power which as it only draws 15 amps means that in theory it can climb vertically for 6 minutes although it would be well out of sight by then!
This video, using a tiny key fob camera, shows a 14 second vertical climb followed by a 3 minute glide to a landing.
Not bad for what started life as a basic aileron trainer.
The original WD4 ailerons are tape hinged on their lower side which is a bit odd as the horns are on the bottom as well.
I did 3 things which would be easy to do if you are starting with a WD3 wing:
1. Recess each servo fully into the wing to reduce drag.
2. Set the servo arm 45 degrees forward to give mechanical differential movement (more up than down)
3. Use a top surface tape hinge
The result is rather better streamlining and aileron turns that are virtually neutral with no rudder required.
This was the beginning of a long development process to make my WD really go, in fact this is the latest 'light weight' version
It weighs just 14.9 oz yet has 18 oz thrust at full power which as it only draws 15 amps means that in theory it can climb vertically for 6 minutes although it would be well out of sight by then!
This video, using a tiny key fob camera, shows a 14 second vertical climb followed by a 3 minute glide to a landing.
Not bad for what started life as a basic aileron trainer.
06-14-2010, 11:05 AM
#82
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 24
Hello,
I posted in this thread last year when I got my Wing Dragon Sportster. I love this plane! Since then, I have installed the following upgrades:
TowerPro BM2408-21T
ESC 18A BEC
GWS EP Propeller (RD-7060 178x152m)
ZIPPY Flightmax 2200mAh 3S1P 20C
Camera video Traveller DV5000 HD
This plane really is good fun. However, now that I do videos, I've noticed a lot of glitches (interferences?). Here is an example:
Check from 2.04
What could be the problem here? I don't think I'm too high so maybe interferences? My transmitter/receiver is on 35MHz.
I posted in this thread last year when I got my Wing Dragon Sportster. I love this plane! Since then, I have installed the following upgrades:
TowerPro BM2408-21T
ESC 18A BEC
GWS EP Propeller (RD-7060 178x152m)
ZIPPY Flightmax 2200mAh 3S1P 20C
Camera video Traveller DV5000 HD
This plane really is good fun. However, now that I do videos, I've noticed a lot of glitches (interferences?). Here is an example:
Check from 2.04
What could be the problem here? I don't think I'm too high so maybe interferences? My transmitter/receiver is on 35MHz.
06-14-2010, 03:59 PM
#83
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Location: Cheshire, UK
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Well it certainly sounds like you have servo/radio problem. The rudder servo particularly sounded like it was 'hunting' (oscillation around the centre position) almost all the flight and a couple of times the ESC went haywire and the ailerons too!
First with the RC gear doing this I would not fly too high and keep well clear of the motorway. If you lose control and hit a car you could end up with a big bill along with a possible prosecution!
There are some simple tests you can do but you will need a helper.
With everything on, move away to near maximum ground range from the transmitter and listen to the servos. They should be silent i.e. not be moving. If they are chattering then either the servo is faulty or there is too much friction in the control runs so the servo cannot centre correctly
At the same range get someone to apply full power whilst you are holding the plane. If the servos move or the ESC power varies by itself then you are likely to have 'on board' interference. Check all the connections very carefully. A badly soldered joint for instance can play havoc or even a damaged aerial wire.
A further test is to go somewhere remote and test again. If everything behaves then external radio interference is a possibility but I fly on 35 mHz close (<50m!) to a mobile phone mast and have had no trouble at all.
Failing that you may have to change components (one at a time!) until it all behaves.
First with the RC gear doing this I would not fly too high and keep well clear of the motorway. If you lose control and hit a car you could end up with a big bill along with a possible prosecution!
There are some simple tests you can do but you will need a helper.
With everything on, move away to near maximum ground range from the transmitter and listen to the servos. They should be silent i.e. not be moving. If they are chattering then either the servo is faulty or there is too much friction in the control runs so the servo cannot centre correctly
At the same range get someone to apply full power whilst you are holding the plane. If the servos move or the ESC power varies by itself then you are likely to have 'on board' interference. Check all the connections very carefully. A badly soldered joint for instance can play havoc or even a damaged aerial wire.
A further test is to go somewhere remote and test again. If everything behaves then external radio interference is a possibility but I fly on 35 mHz close (<50m!) to a mobile phone mast and have had no trouble at all.
Failing that you may have to change components (one at a time!) until it all behaves.
06-15-2010, 10:18 AM
#85
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 2,118
If it is really only since the up grade then it must be an internal problem.
Brushless motors produce very little radio interference (unlike brushed) so I would examine all the connections very carefully.
A poor connection can produce a spark and its that (rather than the momentary loss of power) than causes the radio interference.
The ESC itself does operate a high frequency so it is a good idea to keep the radio aerial wire as far as possible from the ESC and the wires leading to the motor.
Brushless motors produce very little radio interference (unlike brushed) so I would examine all the connections very carefully.
A poor connection can produce a spark and its that (rather than the momentary loss of power) than causes the radio interference.
The ESC itself does operate a high frequency so it is a good idea to keep the radio aerial wire as far as possible from the ESC and the wires leading to the motor.
06-15-2010, 10:22 AM
#86
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks, I'm going to check all the connections this weekend. Also, this is something I need to verify but these "interferences" seem to only happen at full power.
One more thing, my radio is not 35MHz, it is 40MHz. I was very close to a small military airport on the video posted. I'm going to go to the mountains after work and see the difference. I also go a IgotU GT-120 GPS logger today so I will have a bit more information about my flights.
One more thing, my radio is not 35MHz, it is 40MHz. I was very close to a small military airport on the video posted. I'm going to go to the mountains after work and see the difference. I also go a IgotU GT-120 GPS logger today so I will have a bit more information about my flights.
06-15-2010, 11:06 PM
#88
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Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 2,118
I only ever use a terminal block for bench testing, otherwise if you want to be able to disconnect them its soldered gold plated bullet type connectors or just plain solder the wires permanently together but in either case heat shrink insulation.
06-16-2010, 09:16 AM
#89
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 24
Crash
Well, I wanted to rules out the interference possibility to I went to the mountains for a short flight. Then, this happened:
It went mad on me...I was doing my first left corner to bring it back but it didn't make it. I then decided to cut the power and bring the plane back by gliding. Same thing, I couldn't make my corner so the plane was going further and further from me. I cut the power again but I was too low this time and it went behind a hill. I must have tried one last attempt because it crashed with the motor running.
It is a gamble when you crash here, it is rocks and spongy grass. I got lucky today, the plane chose the spongy grass! No damage visible on the plane, but then I realised that the motor was not turning properly...The white wire between the ESC and the motor was disconnected from the ESC side! I bet this was my problem all along, the connection was loose. I soldered it back yesterday evening and changed the timing of the ESC to high (saw that on rcgroups).
I'll have another short flight in a high grass field today to see if it makes any difference.
It went mad on me...I was doing my first left corner to bring it back but it didn't make it. I then decided to cut the power and bring the plane back by gliding. Same thing, I couldn't make my corner so the plane was going further and further from me. I cut the power again but I was too low this time and it went behind a hill. I must have tried one last attempt because it crashed with the motor running.
It is a gamble when you crash here, it is rocks and spongy grass. I got lucky today, the plane chose the spongy grass! No damage visible on the plane, but then I realised that the motor was not turning properly...The white wire between the ESC and the motor was disconnected from the ESC side! I bet this was my problem all along, the connection was loose. I soldered it back yesterday evening and changed the timing of the ESC to high (saw that on rcgroups).
I'll have another short flight in a high grass field today to see if it makes any difference.
Last edited by yannc; 06-16-2010 at 11:06 AM.
06-16-2010, 10:12 PM
#90
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 2,118
That was a lucky escape!
The loose wire certainly sounds like a likely culprit but do check everything.
A good way of doing this is to get the motor running with the plane secure but with as much as possible accessible and give each wire a wiggle to see if it causes a glitch. If it does then investigate further!
The loose wire certainly sounds like a likely culprit but do check everything.
A good way of doing this is to get the motor running with the plane secure but with as much as possible accessible and give each wire a wiggle to see if it causes a glitch. If it does then investigate further!
06-17-2010, 09:44 AM
#91
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 24
I had another short flight yesterday and even though the servos are not chattering as much there is still something going on (i can hear it on the video). I have ordered the Gold bullet connector to connect the motor to the ESC and ESC to the battery. I will then try your suggestion (with the motor running, give each wire a wiggle). Finally, I'm going to do a range test.
I don't seem to get an many interferences without the camera. Can it be a load issue?
I don't seem to get an many interferences without the camera. Can it be a load issue?
06-17-2010, 10:37 PM
#92
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Location: Cheshire, UK
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Weight itself is not an interference problem although because the plane is working harder any control problems are likely to be magnified.
Do all the servos glitch. If they do it is very unlikely all the servos are faulty.
If you disconnect the motor from the ESC and the servos still 'glitch' then it is not the motor but it could be the battery connections, or the ESC, or the radio, or more likely the connection between them.
I hope you can trace it.
Do all the servos glitch. If they do it is very unlikely all the servos are faulty.
If you disconnect the motor from the ESC and the servos still 'glitch' then it is not the motor but it could be the battery connections, or the ESC, or the radio, or more likely the connection between them.
I hope you can trace it.
06-25-2010, 09:35 PM
#93
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 24
Quick update: I had a very good flight in the moutains today, I actually switched to a lighter camera (key ring type), it's good enough for me to listen to the glitches.
Good news is that thanks to the gold bullet connectors, I have no interferences/glitches at low altitude, or when the plane is close to me. However, today I went up to 1120 feet relative to the ground, and I think I'm reaching the limit of my TX because I had some serious interferences (plane going 90 degrees suddently, motor cutting out) when the plane was far away. First thing I'll do is change the battery of my TX but if this doesn't help, I'm going to need a better TX as I want to go much higher.
Would this do? Or any other suggestions? I also fly helicopters so I wouldn't mind a universal TX.
Good news is that thanks to the gold bullet connectors, I have no interferences/glitches at low altitude, or when the plane is close to me. However, today I went up to 1120 feet relative to the ground, and I think I'm reaching the limit of my TX because I had some serious interferences (plane going 90 degrees suddently, motor cutting out) when the plane was far away. First thing I'll do is change the battery of my TX but if this doesn't help, I'm going to need a better TX as I want to go much higher.
Would this do? Or any other suggestions? I also fly helicopters so I wouldn't mind a universal TX.
Last edited by yannc; 06-25-2010 at 10:03 PM.
06-26-2010, 12:38 AM
#94
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Location: Cheshire, UK
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The original 35mHz Wing Dragon claimed a 1500' radio range so at those altitudes (how did you measure it so specifically?) you will be getting close to the limit. I am still using the original radio and although it has given no trouble I am careful not to get too far away when low down and keep it right above me when flying really high.
The Futaba 6EX is 'full range' set which should mean further than you can see!
The Futaba 6EX is 'full range' set which should mean further than you can see!
06-26-2010, 10:54 AM
#95
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 24
My Wing Dragon TX is a 40MHz, maybe it's not as good as a 35MHz?
To measure altitude, I have a gps logger (IgotU gt-120), this is my flight profile: http://www.a-trip.com/tracks/view/53176
I was trying to keep it just above my head at this altitude.
To measure altitude, I have a gps logger (IgotU gt-120), this is my flight profile: http://www.a-trip.com/tracks/view/53176
I was trying to keep it just above my head at this altitude.
06-26-2010, 06:01 PM
#96
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 2,118
Should you really be using 40mHz? In UK & Ireland its reserved for surface vehicles!
The original WD RC stuff is 'cheap and cheerful' so some variation in performance is quite likely. You would do well to get a 'quality' RC combo.
The original WD RC stuff is 'cheap and cheerful' so some variation in performance is quite likely. You would do well to get a 'quality' RC combo.
07-07-2010, 04:01 AM
#99
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: McAlester, Oklahoma
Posts: 10,811
Hello Bhc and welcome to Wattflyer.
You might be interested in this thread about a Wing Dragon. I got to fly her a while back. As you can see, she has been sturdy and reliable, in spite of several mishaps around the world.
It is a really long thread, so you might want to just skim over the best points.
You might be interested in this thread about a Wing Dragon. I got to fly her a while back. As you can see, she has been sturdy and reliable, in spite of several mishaps around the world.
It is a really long thread, so you might want to just skim over the best points.
07-07-2010, 10:47 PM
#100
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 2,118
bhcnomo
Nice clear pictures of your Wing Dragon.
As you are flying without ailerons I would leave the motor offset as is. It is there to counter the effects of torque which can be quite significant with the powerful brushless motor and the big 3 blade prop.
To answer you question about the prop. For any given diameter and power input a three blade prop will produce more thrust than a 2 blade but it does so a bit less efficiently than a 2 blade of slightly larger diameter, however this option is not possible in a WD as the boom gets in the way.
As for the ESC if Artech put it on the outside then it is there for a reason - to keep cool.
On my aileron WD I have always run the ESC inside the pod, use a 7x6 2 blade prop and a 1500mAh 3S LiPo but have still managed to reduce the total weight dramatically. The latest & lightest version weighs just under 15oz although to be honest there is not much of the original WD left but the performance is nevertheless spectacular - just 14 seconds power gives a 3 minute glide. There is a video of it doing this a few posts back on this thread.
Flown like this nothing has time to get hot and it can stay up for a long time, 44 minutes to be exact!
Nice clear pictures of your Wing Dragon.
As you are flying without ailerons I would leave the motor offset as is. It is there to counter the effects of torque which can be quite significant with the powerful brushless motor and the big 3 blade prop.
To answer you question about the prop. For any given diameter and power input a three blade prop will produce more thrust than a 2 blade but it does so a bit less efficiently than a 2 blade of slightly larger diameter, however this option is not possible in a WD as the boom gets in the way.
As for the ESC if Artech put it on the outside then it is there for a reason - to keep cool.
On my aileron WD I have always run the ESC inside the pod, use a 7x6 2 blade prop and a 1500mAh 3S LiPo but have still managed to reduce the total weight dramatically. The latest & lightest version weighs just under 15oz although to be honest there is not much of the original WD left but the performance is nevertheless spectacular - just 14 seconds power gives a 3 minute glide. There is a video of it doing this a few posts back on this thread.
Flown like this nothing has time to get hot and it can stay up for a long time, 44 minutes to be exact!
