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Hawker Hunter Prototype XPS

Old 12-30-2021, 05:00 PM
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quorneng
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Default Hawker Hunter Prototype XPS

Having built the 2 Hawker prototypes, P1052 & P1081, that led to the Hunter it seemed obvious to build its prototype as well and to the same scale.
The Hunter prototype, P1067, was very 'clean' compared to the later service variants which make things a bit easier working in 5 mm XPS.
At the same scale as the other Hawkers the exhaust exit of the Hunter comes out to 90% of the FSA of a 50 mm EDF and I just happen to have a spare one!
Although the configuration of the Hunter is similar to the P1081 in fact no dimension is identical so it will be a 'clean sheet' build.
The starting point is a blown up 3 view to give the correct scale.
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I was never completely satisfied with how the bifurcated inlets merged with the EDF inlet. With a smaller 50 mm EDF efficient merging of the inlets was likely to be even more critical so some redesign would be required..
The other issue would be the actual Hunter inlets which have a pronounced 'stagger'.
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Individual printed inlet pieces would be likely necessary.
First the printed 50 mm exhaust section of the duct mounted on the EDF.
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The exhaust nozzle on the end not only reduces the duct to 90% of the FSA but also forms the profile pf the extreme end of the fuselage.
The very length of the duct and the likely losses is a concern with such a relatively small EDF.

I am fairly certain I can build the Hunter airframe out of XPS but first I have to prove the EDF and duct work well enough.
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Old 01-01-2022, 01:19 PM
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More printing. The bifurcated inlet duct added.
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It is amazing just how long it all is compared to the EDF diameter. Note the reinforcement added to the flat inlet area to resist it being sucked in!
The actual inlets are separate left and right hand add on components.
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A short test to check it all worked.
I should now be able to start the fuselage planking.
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Old 01-08-2022, 07:53 PM
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The first fuselage planks goes on.
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The smaller diameter of the Hunter fuselage means there are as many but narrower planks as for the P1081.
Some areas of the planking have to be left off to give access to run the servo wires through the fuselage formers.
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Several of the top planks were initially are left off to install the fin and the cockpit rear fairing.
My intention is to run the elevator servo wire inside the external spine that runs from the fin to the cockpit fairing..
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Old 01-09-2022, 12:55 PM
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What filament used ? Standard PLA ?

You are King of lightweight construction - so I nervously mention .... LW-PLA ?

I have progressed from using std PLA for most to using LW-PLA instead. It means walls are slightly thicker - but weight saving and structural stiffness are made.

Just a thought ...
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Old 01-09-2022, 12:57 PM
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I threw together a profile Hunter ... first flights had tail area flexing so much with that high mounted stab as well such a large wing area - I had to double up the fuselaqe and fillet to stiffen it up ...

I reckon the Hunter was one of the most beautiful airframes ever ...
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Old 01-09-2022, 05:21 PM
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Yes LW PLA is next on my to do list but I don't like the price.
I know due to its foaming i kg of LW PLA is supposed to create twice as much finished article but it is at least twice the price.

A bit more of the Hunter. The tail feathers
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Note a servo for each elevator half. Space limitation means the servos had to be mounted like ailerons.
The tail mounted on the fuselage and the top skin made good after a servo reverser was included in the fuselage for one of the servos.
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You have to do it like this when using a stab receiver otherwise the gyro stability correction for one elevator half would be the wrong way..


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Old 01-09-2022, 09:21 PM
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I have to admit that living in Latvia means that 3DLabPrint LW-PLA is good price, as its EU Shipping / no tax etc. .... better than ColorFab's despite same EU product ... AND I get 1kg instead of ColorFabs 750gr .....

Overall - I would put the cost per model roughly same given that I get about 1.5 - 2.5 expansion factor depending on settings.

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Old 01-09-2022, 09:23 PM
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Yep - the elevator angle had me for a while on my Hunter ... but in the end went for a straight hinge line right across so one servo did the job. In flight never notice.
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Old 01-10-2022, 05:46 PM
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Like the other Hawkers the wing are very simple, just top and bottom skins and two shear webs.
The issue in the thick skin has to be significantly sanded on the inside of each skin to give a fine (scale) trailing edge and the very stiffness of the skin means it needs a lot clamps.
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In fact I don't have enough to do both wings at the same time and the glue takes 24 hours to dry hard enough to be secure so two wings equals at least 2 days.
In addition the aileron servos have to be put in each wing and their the cables run though before the wing can be fixed to the fuselage.

Last edited by quorneng; 01-11-2022 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 01-12-2022, 10:52 PM
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Once a wing is released from the clamps and transferred to the other one, the first wing is carefully glued to the fuselage propped up in place and left to dry for 24 hours.
Then the same process takes place with the other wing.
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As no jigs are involved it is important to use the mk1 eyeball quite a bit to make sure it is all ends up 'true and square' to the fin and tail plane.
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The much thinner fuselage of the Hunter is very noticeable when compared to its immediate predecessor the P1081 at the same build state.
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Just the nose to do.
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:46 PM
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The nose is obviously different to the Sea Hawk and its derivatives but is built in exactly the same way although it is a little smaller.
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The printed nose cone presented a bit of a problem.
The Sea Hawk cone is geometrically symmetrical from a circular former. The Hunter nose cone is from an oval former and not a symmetrical one at that.
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The solution was to print a symmetrical nose cone that had a base circumference that was identical to the circumference of the Hunter oval and use so 'finger pressure' to distort the cone so it exactly fitted the Hunter former shape whilst the glue dried.
The like the Avon in the full size Hunter the 50 mm EDF is mounted further back than the 55 mm in Sea Hawk. It is also slightly heavier so the battery will need to be right in the nose rather than the cockpit. The canopy is still the only opening and that is a bit smaller too.
The end result.
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The battery slides right into the nose with the Lemon 'stab' Rx fitted securely on the cockpit floor.
Not ideal as far as placement of the diversity antenna as they are closer to both the ESC and the battery than I would like. A penalty of what is a bit of a sardine can installation.
The prototype hunter was initially painted in the same very pale green/blue as the other jet prototypes. The problem is there are few period pictures in colour.
Anyway the first task is to obliterate the grey XPS with a coat of white acrylic,
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It also gives an opportunity to fill all the minor dings and blemishes. The actual finish on the prototype WB188 appeared to be of a very high standard.
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.. .

Last edited by quorneng; 01-14-2022 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 01-16-2022, 01:01 PM
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Complete in all over pale green/blue with decals ,its number & prototype circle added.
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The underside
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An interesting comparison between the Hunter prototype and its immediate predecessor the P1081.
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It still looks quite 'modern' even 66 years on.

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Old 01-16-2022, 01:24 PM
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"It still looks quite 'modern' even 66 years on."

I can remember back in the 90's along UK south coast - Hunter used to do the Radar Defence testing regularly until one day a mishap and pilot had to eject .. pal of mine (Council Lawyer) in his office high up in Fareham Council building thought it was going to come in his windows !!

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/121932

https://www.fradu.info/hunter/index.html

The last operational Hunter flight is reported as 2014 ..... Lebanese Air Force .... but many other countries had them operational into the 90's. Not bad for a 1950's design ......
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Old 01-17-2022, 12:37 AM
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It appears that XF 947 RAF F4 1956 to 1971, then converted by Hawker as a F58A for the Swiss Air Force,1972 to 1996.
Fully restored privately owned as Miss Demeanour did the air show circuit in UK and Europe from 2009 to 2015.
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The consequences of the Shoreham air disaster terminated her display career so was sold to a Canadian organisation,
Now repainted grey as of 2019 is rented out for "tactical combat training" to Canadian, US and French military.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:26 AM
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I read somewhere that you can actually buy a ticket to fly in a two seater ... forget where (not Thunder City SA) ....

Have to say it is one of the most beautiful of airframes ... possibly last of the sleek style ...
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:28 AM
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I wish I had your skill in design / building Q ..... I would love to add a full form HH to my collection ... but will have to wait for someone else to provide the 'files' !!
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Old 01-17-2022, 09:50 PM
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It flies at virtually scale speed..
Very pale green/blue is perhaps not the best colour for RC flying.

I have an admission to make.
When I was a lad I went with my Dad to Farnborough most years. When I was 12 I actually saw 111 squadron, The Black Arrows, do their record breaking 22 Hunter loop display, they actually looped all 22 twice.
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Any way I still had quite a bit of XPS so I decided to build an Black Arrows F6 as a comparison to the Hunter prototype. I also bought a nice 11 blade 50 mm EDF for it.
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The only real difference is the saw tooth and extended outer leading edge, the airbrake literally stuck onto the fuselage underside and the two infamous 'Sabrina' cartridge case bins.
The complete XPS 'Black Arrow' Hunter F6.
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Not yet flown.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:06 PM
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Didn't they do both a LOOP and a synchro ROLL with all 22 ?
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Old 01-18-2022, 12:28 PM
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They may have done but I don't recall. Visibility was such for a short 12 year old that I simply may not have seen all the roll.
I do remember they did a series of 'bomb bursts' loosing a number of planes before the remainder continued with the display until there were only 9.
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Old 01-18-2022, 01:33 PM
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I was a 'steward' at the Calshot Celebrations (Schneider Cup) with one of the Model Flying Clubs and my being SMAE .... Red Arrows of course and Concorde made appearances there. On the Sunday - I wasn't set for Steward - so went to opposite Western Shore with Wife to get better spectator view ... on the saturday - duties meant I was limited on seeing things ..

wife and I were sitting on the ridge looking across Southampton Water at the displays and then Red Arrows came in ... did their usual incredible display with the 'bomb burst finale ....

No kidding - when that Hawk came across the water towards us from the 'breakaway burst' - he was so low he had to knife edge through the poplar trees directly behind us ... leaving us with ears ringing !!

The other highlight of course was Concorde which actually did a circuit of the Solent at low level, following as much as it could the Schneider Circuit .... those Olympus engines were working hard to keep her at it ... she was low enough - we could actually read lettering underwing. The Pilot must have been praying all time !

S6B flypast ...



Schneider Trophy (not a replica - the actual one)



With the S6B standing behind it ..

Forgive the thread drift ...
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Old 01-18-2022, 03:46 PM
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No problem on thread drift.
From what I have read flying Concorde at display weight was not too hard as there was considerable excess thrust even without the afterburners.
Having visited G-BOAC at Manchester airport when you look round the outside closely the over riding impression is that you are looking at 'military' style technology, all sharp edges and huge engines, which I suppose it is.
I only wish I had assembled the pennies and booked one of 'Bay of Biscay jollies' but like so many things the family had to take priority..
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Old 01-18-2022, 07:10 PM
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My Father was involved in the flight routes and use of Concorde - being Chief Flight Ops with CAA ... but he always said from day one - it was a dream that would be its own downfall. The Passenger / fuel per miles equation was so out of market compared to wide body jets etc. like 747 that were coming into service. He was very proud of it and his work though.
According to him - there were plans and thoughts to 'militarise' it - but the Services were strapped for cash, didn't want to have the burden of it ... and basically the changes needed would have been so dramatic that its performance would have suffered.

As a youngster coming through school - my Father made it known to me that his hope was that after Flight Training at Hamble, which he had secured place for me - entry into BA - that I would Pilot Concorde. I turned down the place in Hamble and went to sea instead.

Anyway - back to the Hunter !!
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