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FAA Registration Deadline Looming

Old 04-29-2016, 02:40 PM
  #76  
firemanbill
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Originally Posted by Porcia83 View Post
Really? So it's a money and skill issue?

Do you know many "traditional" modelers that could scratch build a MR or UAV from the ground up? I'm not talking about buying a DJI Phantom and trying to fly, I mean building a MR from a box of parts. Keep in mind, not just anyone can get one of these things flying without any effort, they all require some flying skills, as well as the initial set up of the unit. But back to the build.

The frame, the motors, wiring of the esc's, the flight control system, the cameras, etc etc. It's no easy task. And that's just with an FPV racer, go the UAV route with GPS, gyro stab systems, etc etc...far more difficult.
I stand by my statement and yes.

Someone who has the skill and know how to build something like you talk about from a box of parts is not who I am talking about. I respect that type of skill level and don' think those type of people are the ones doing stupid stuff with these units as they, like others, have a lot of time and effort built into their models.

My comment is aimed at the dji user and other cheap stuff bought from the hobbytowns and such that requires no skill other than a basic command of the english language to read the manual. Or not in most cases.
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:54 PM
  #77  
Fishbonez
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Last thought before I go today...

I am hoping you all wrote your congressman and have taken your arguments to state and local levels. I know I have and will continue to in hopes that this matter will be someday be resolved.

Doesnt matter what you fly or flown, what you have skills in or dont, built or havent built.

What seems futile is the fact that folks in this hobby are never going to stick together. Therefore in My humble opinion this hobby, in the US anyway, will fall away and you all will still be pointing the finger to blame someone.

There is an old saying and from reading the post(s) in this thread and the circles it keeps going in. I gotta say

"If you are not a part of the solution you are part of the problem"

So now with that said "back to my dungeon of a basement and see what I can do with all this foam and electric parts laying around"

cyaz
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:58 PM
  #78  
fhhuber
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Originally Posted by Porcia83 View Post
Really? So it's a money and skill issue?

Do you know many "traditional" modelers that could scratch build a MR or UAV from the ground up? I'm not talking about buying a DJI Phantom and trying to fly, I mean building a MR from a box of parts. Keep in mind, not just anyone can get one of these things flying without any effort, they all require some flying skills, as well as the initial set up of the unit. But back to the build.

The frame, the motors, wiring of the esc's, the flight control system, the cameras, etc etc. It's no easy task. And that's just with an FPV racer, go the UAV route with GPS, gyro stab systems, etc etc...far more difficult.

The first multirotors were built by modelers from scratch and flown WITHOUT A STABILIZER SYSTEM.

Without those... the modern multirotors would have never been developed.
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:33 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by firemanbill View Post
I stand by my statement and yes.

Someone who has the skill and know how to build something like you talk about from a box of parts is not who I am talking about. I respect that type of skill level and don' think those type of people are the ones doing stupid stuff with these units as they, like others, have a lot of time and effort built into their models.

My comment is aimed at the dji user and other cheap stuff bought from the hobbytowns and such that requires no skill other than a basic command of the english language to read the manual. Or not in most cases.
I for one completely understood what you meant, I never really felt it needed to be explained. It is also very easy to see, put someone off the street with a banggood special they bought just because they watched a video they thought was cool next to someone who actually "built" something, and actually I will even re-phrase that and say someone who actually took a minute before dropping the coin on anything...and you will literally see two different people and mindsets.

The first multirotors were built by modelers from scratch and flown WITHOUT A STABILIZER SYSTEM.

Without those... the modern multirotors would have never been developed.
Very true, the thing I do enjoy the most though is the fact that there are people out there that think there never was such a thing as Model Aviation or even a hobby at all until muiltrotors entered the scene.

Of course the people they praise as heroes of the hobby, are some of the same people that took risks and those are not my heroes.
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:50 PM
  #80  
Turner
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Originally Posted by Fishbonez View Post
...If you are not a part of the solution you are part of the problem...
That is a nonsense statement similar to "if you are not with us you are against us" put forth by people who love to point the finger of blame at others. It is absolutely possible to be neither part of the problem or part of the solution.
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Old 04-30-2016, 03:51 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
That is a nonsense statement similar to "if you are not with us you are against us" put forth by people who love to point the finger of blame at others. It is absolutely possible to be neither part of the problem or part of the solution.
Sorry Turner we will have to agree to disagree

I for one think the finger pointing that goes on in this hobby will be its downfall, people cant come together, which was my point. Also in my opinion if someone wishes to just sit and wait for someone else to solve the problem for them, then that someone deserves what they get and are a part of the problem. I for one love this hobby and everything included with it, as Im sure you do as well, and I wont sit around just letting the US govt do as it wishes. Ill do what ever I can to legally do something about it, maybe you can live with whatever comes down the pipe and that is fine I for one can not. Have a great weekend
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Old 04-30-2016, 02:50 PM
  #82  
Porcia83
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
IMHO, I'd like to think that the modelers as described here are not the folks that are causing the problems the FAA is concerned about.
Perhaps. Nobody is immune from making mistakes though, accidents happen. I think the FAA is worried about anyone causing problems in the national airspace.

My response however was regarding what I thought was a remarkably generalized simplification that the hobby used to be about building skills, and money, and now it's been reduced to opening a box and flying. That just doesn't appear to be true, with rare exceptions for mall/toy grade aircraft, and even then, those take some skill.

The hobby is changing though, just as it has for 80 years.
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Old 04-30-2016, 02:58 PM
  #83  
Porcia83
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Originally Posted by firemanbill View Post
I stand by my statement and yes.

Someone who has the skill and know how to build something like you talk about from a box of parts is not who I am talking about. I respect that type of skill level and don' think those type of people are the ones doing stupid stuff with these units as they, like others, have a lot of time and effort built into their models.

My comment is aimed at the dji user and other cheap stuff bought from the hobbytowns and such that requires no skill other than a basic command of the english language to read the manual. Or not in most cases.
Thanks for the clarification. Don't disagree that the toy grade stuff is certainly easier to fly than some of the higher grade stuff, but I would still maintain the average person cannot just open a box, read a manual, and be off flying a Phantom. I wouldn't be surprised if some have tried that route, but those machines normally don't make it far....Youtube is filled with evidence of that.
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Old 04-30-2016, 03:25 PM
  #84  
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The design of the modern quad stabilization system is intended to pretty much have the operator just telling the quad where to go with the stabilizer actually doing the flying.

There are some with a reputation for the quad taking off in a random direction and accelerating up once they get to the limit of radio range... if the owner doesn't purposefully set the return to home location (in theory they head for the factory)

The AS3X and similar for fixed wing are intended to have people with no skill at all able to guide a model around.... And the AS3X can be so effective at stabilizing a plane (if gains set too high) that the operator can't turn at all, leaving the option of chopping throttle to let it land or watching it fly away.

So, yes people can just buy a flying "toy" and with no knowledge at all... get it where it doesn't belong.
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Old 04-30-2016, 03:34 PM
  #85  
Porcia83
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
The design of the modern quad stabilization system is intended to pretty much have the operator just telling the quad where to go with the stabilizer actually doing the flying.

There are some with a reputation for the quad taking off in a random direction and accelerating up once they get to the limit of radio range... if the owner doesn't purposefully set the return to home location (in theory they head for the factory)

The AS3X and similar for fixed wing are intended to have people with no skill at all able to guide a model around.... And the AS3X can be so effective at stabilizing a plane (if gains set too high) that the operator can't turn at all, leaving the option of chopping throttle to let it land or watching it fly away.

So, yes people can just buy a flying "toy" and with no knowledge at all... get it where it doesn't belong.
Sure, anyone can buy anything, no dispute there. And sure, the gyros and stabilization system sure do help, but they don't fly the aircraft. Can someone new to the hobby by a Carbon Z Splendor and fly it out of the box because it has the AS3X system? Likewise, a DJI Phantom? Neither are open box, insert battery, push button and fly with ease. Both require some skills and knowledge of flight. There are more advanced systems out there that can be programmed to complete a "mission" virtually by themselves, but that's not something the average joe can just do easily.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:27 AM
  #86  
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http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...ted-atc-system
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:52 PM
  #87  
pd1
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Originally Posted by Porcia83 View Post
Sure, anyone can buy anything, no dispute there. And sure, the gyros and stabilization system sure do help, but they don't fly the aircraft. Can someone new to the hobby by a Carbon Z Splendor and fly it out of the box because it has the AS3X system? Likewise, a DJI Phantom? Neither are open box, insert battery, push button and fly with ease. Both require some skills and knowledge of flight. There are more advanced systems out there that can be programmed to complete a "mission" virtually by themselves, but that's not something the average joe can just do easily.
Porcia, Don't want to disagree but a friend of mine bought a Yuneec quadcopter.
We put the battery in it and placed it on the ground, followed the instructions and it took off,it went up a few feet and Dick released the sticks.
It hovered there until we read a little more from the instructions. You do not fly that quadcopter in the traditional way we fly airplanes.
You give it an input and it figures out the controls to do the command.You don't even start or stop the rotors directly.

I was bored with it before its first landing, but it can be "flown" without any prior knowledge or experience. It also has a return home button and autoland button.
http://www.yuneec.com/
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Old 05-28-2016, 12:49 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
<snip!>The FAA really doesn't care about line of sight model airplanes, I've asked a few inspectors and they'd prefer to run away from them, but how would you write the rules so that they would be non discriminatory and still be able to punish ( make an example of ) the idiots that fly in the wrong places?
Easy: Restrict regulation to the types of UAS that are the primary cause of the problems. Something the AMA should have been pushing from the get-go. Yes, it would have hurt some but possibly protected the rest.
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