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Problem with ESC on Skyartec Cessna 182

Old 11-28-2008, 02:24 PM
  #1  
ozscim
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Default Problem with ESC on Skyartec Cessna 182

Hi All, I am a newbie to electric flight and I'm having a problem with the ESC on my Skyartec Cessna. Purchased from Hobby City out of Hong Kong arrived in Perth Australia 2 days later (amazing!!) Anyway the problem I have is that all I can get out of the ESC is a blip on the prop and a lot of very loud beeping noises !! All other servos work fine and I read on the Hobby City site under one of the recommendations for the plane that the ESC needs programming, is this true and if so, how do I go about it
Thanks in advance, Neil
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Old 11-28-2008, 04:46 PM
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The easy way to program the esc is to buy and use the Turnigy programming card. You should read the instructions on the esc for programming. It will tell you the exact order of how to program it with the radio.

Another note- make sure your battery is charged. Hobby City sends them at/around 11.1 volt.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:59 AM
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Default SKYARTEC ESC frustration and going to switch it out.

Originally Posted by ozscim View Post
Hi All, I am a newbie to electric flight and I'm having a problem with the ESC on my Skyartec Cessna. Purchased from Hobby City out of Hong Kong arrived in Perth Australia 2 days later (amazing!!) Anyway the problem I have is that all I can get out of the ESC is a blip on the prop and a lot of very loud beeping noises !! All other servos work fine and I read on the Hobby City site under one of the recommendations for the plane that the ESC needs programming, is this true and if so, how do I go about it
Thanks in advance, Neil
Hi all,

Like Neil I am new to fixed wing. The only difference is I've been building and developing my skills with single rotor Helis.

I did the assembly on my SKRT Cessna 182. Cleaned up all the surfaces of any mold overflow. I have all the servos moving correctly and discovered much to my frustration that the ESC will not do a normal first time stick position recognition setup. Which after building eight Helis of varied sizes I find idiotic.

I have a few spare ESCs with better amperage spike handling and an appropriate heat sink. I am thinking seriously about pulling the stock ESC and connecting the appropriate size bullet connectors and deans plug so I can get on with learning to fly this thing instead of puzzling over how to program an apparently retarded ESC.

Does this idea make sense to any of you more experienced fixed wing pilots?

My receiver is a Spektrum 7000 series I forget which one. The radio is a DX8. I am very familiar with Spektrum hardware for Helis. I know this Receiver is designed for both types of aircraft. And the ESCs are all about regulating power to the motor. If needed I can add a BEC for the servos but I doubt with a battery this small that is needed.

Any suggestions

Thanks

pesmarker
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:16 AM
  #4  
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Default Through frustration comes understanding

Hi All last week I posted about frustration with the stock ESC. Stating I planned to swap it out for one I knew worked.

Along the way I made a few discoveries which may or may not be helpful to other owners of this model.

1) I tried several ESC units I already own and have flown in 250 to 450 size Helis. I discovered that only my 30a Exceed ESC would initiate. None of the 40a ESCs would. After a couple of days to think it over I suspect the reason is Heli Power consumption is radically higher and the batteries have higher C counts as well as burst rates. My 250's run 11.4v 850 mAh power packs, the 450's 11.4v 2200 mAh, the .50 runs 22.2v 3300 to 5000 mAh packs and the .90 runs a pair of 22.2v 5000 mAh packs wired in series. For the 250 to 450 Helis I've found 40a ESC units don't overheat no matter how hard you push the motor. The .50 runs a Castle 120a ESC the .90 runs a 160a ESC. It was quite a revelation to learn that fixed wing prop driven aircraft required radically less power.

2) So with theExceed 30a ESC mounted, I discovered a few other problems. First being the quality of wire used by SKYARTEC going from their motor to the ESC.

For clarity let me explain that all the ESC units I have which are shared between the 250 and 450 class Helis share identical motor and battery connectors. It saves me time if something fails.

It was amazing to me that SKYARTEC hard wired their programmable ESC to the motor. This means if you have to replace an ESC or motor, you must disassemble the aircraft to a point where both can be removed versus unplugging one from the other. Considering single rotor Helis in roughly the same price range or lower have bullet connectors between the motor and the ESC I was quite surprised to find the SKYARTEC being hard wired.

Which brings me to the next point. The three leads off the motor are very stiff. It is very inexpensive material. A more flexible and maintenance friendly alternate would not significantly increase the mfg cost.

I bring this up because almost as soon as I hit the right combination of components between the motor, ESC, and battery, the neutral motor lead cracked. Sadly since I'd forgotten to restock my solder and flux supply at home, I had to wait till the next evening t be sure the previous day's test results were accurate. I brought home some spare solder and flux from the shop the following evening, and after restoring the neutral motor connection the Cessna initialized a few seconds after connecting the battery.

But my trial by fire was not over.

Now way out of my mechanics depth of understanding, I had to scour the net looking for other people's solutions for programming a DX-8 radio with the SKYARTEC Cessna 182.

So I found some basic information about how flaps are utilized in the three stages of take off, general flight, and landing. I also found some fix on YouTube which insists you must use the Flapperon setting. Which puzzled me since the DX-8 offers a wing setup where one wing servo runs both Ailerons and one wing servo runs the flaps.

At first I followed the Flapperon setup because it was the first solution I found. But this lead me to my next discovery of Skyartec's design blunders.

No matter how I set my DX-8 the flaps did not respond correctly. I tried every sensible combination. I was finally able to set the radio with what seems to be the typical three positions flap settings (being) general flight, takeoff, and landing. However initially no matter where I set the percentages the flaps seemed restricted in their movement.

Please understand that my previous experience comes from collective pitch single rotor Helis where the components must fulfill very stringent requirements or the damn thing will never fly. And based on the cost no manufacturer would last long if the design spec were idiotic. I discovered that in fixed wing aircraft at an entry level many manufacturers are simply copying 3D layouts of planes into CAD and cutting things in foam without any consideration of mechanical fit issues.

After several days and thankfully this was the time it took me to work out the ESC and motor issues.... After god only knows how many times I have dismantled and,reassembled the Cessna, I saw the imprint of the Flaps Servo Rod Linkage making an impression against the back wall of what I guess you can call the cockpit area.

So I pulled out the first available chisel and excavated an area at against the back wall which would allow a full range movement for the flaps servo linkage rod. Low and behold now the flaps work exactly as a three position system should (if I am interpreting the available on line information correctly).

With the 30A ESC I can easilly run 1800mAh batteries and I was also able to run a couple of Hyperion 2200mAh power packs. The weight is about 1/3rd heavier than the stock battery, however the burst and higher level sustained discharge rates are more than doubled. I tested the motor with a couple of full battery drain runs on both 1800 and 2200 mAh batteries.

The motor did not overheat at full throttle at up to three minutes. But with the burst rate on these batteries I suspect there is no need to run the motor wide open except for acrobatics which I am probably years away from trying. I simply have these batteries because they were bought for my first 450 heli.

Anyway if anyone wants to see pictures of the modifications to the control cavity, I will post them once I understand how this user group interface works. I am better with machines than computers

pesmarker
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pesmarker View Post
Hi all,

Like Neil I am new to fixed wing. The only difference is I've been building and developing my skills with single rotor Helis.

I did the assembly on my SKRT Cessna 182. Cleaned up all the surfaces of any mold overflow. I have all the servos moving correctly and discovered much to my frustration that the ESC will not do a normal first time stick position recognition setup. Which after building eight Helis of varied sizes I find idiotic.

I have a few spare ESCs with better amperage spike handling and an appropriate heat sink. I am thinking seriously about pulling the stock ESC and connecting the appropriate size bullet connectors and deans plug so I can get on with learning to fly this thing instead of puzzling over how to program an apparently retarded ESC.

Does this idea make sense to any of you more experienced fixed wing pilots?

My receiver is a Spektrum 7000 series I forget which one. The radio is a DX8. I am very familiar with Spektrum hardware for Helis. I know this Receiver is designed for both types of aircraft. And the ESCs are all about regulating power to the motor. If needed I can add a BEC for the servos but I doubt with a battery this small that is needed.

Any suggestions

Thanks

pesmarker
The Stock ESC is more than capable of running the system ...

Usually if it won't program up throttle - try reversing the throttle on Tx .... then put to FULL position ... power up model ... listen fopr the beep that says full position is now set ... bring throttle back to idle .... listen for the music and then good to go.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:11 PM
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Boy you really have made life hard for yourself !

Originally Posted by pesmarker View Post
Hi All last week I posted about frustration with the stock ESC. Stating I planned to swap it out for one I knew worked.

Along the way I made a few discoveries which may or may not be helpful to other owners of this model.

1) I tried several ESC units I already own and have flown in 250 to 450 size Helis. I discovered that only my 30a Exceed ESC would initiate. None of the 40a ESCs would. After a couple of days to think it over I suspect the reason is Heli Power consumption is radically higher and the batteries have higher C counts as well as burst rates. My 250's run 11.4v 850 mAh power packs, the 450's 11.4v 2200 mAh, the .50 runs 22.2v 3300 to 5000 mAh packs and the .90 runs a pair of 22.2v 5000 mAh packs wired in series. For the 250 to 450 Helis I've found 40a ESC units don't overheat no matter how hard you push the motor. The .50 runs a Castle 120a ESC the .90 runs a 160a ESC. It was quite a revelation to learn that fixed wing prop driven aircraft required radically less power.
As long as cell count is within ESC range ie 3S - it doesn't care about mAh size or C rating .... so I am suprised that you couldn't get all to work.

2) So with theExceed 30a ESC mounted, I discovered a few other problems. First being the quality of wire used by SKYARTEC going from their motor to the ESC.

For clarity let me explain that all the ESC units I have which are shared between the 250 and 450 class Helis share identical motor and battery connectors. It saves me time if something fails.
fair enough - but after more than a year of flying my Skyartec 182 ... still same stock gear.


Now way out of my mechanics depth of understanding, I had to scour the net looking for other people's solutions for programming a DX-8 radio with the SKYARTEC Cessna 182.

So I found some basic information about how flaps are utilized in the three stages of take off, general flight, and landing. I also found some fix on YouTube which insists you must use the Flapperon setting. Which puzzled me since the DX-8 offers a wing setup where one wing servo runs both Ailerons and one wing servo runs the flaps.

At first I followed the Flapperon setup because it was the first solution I found. But this lead me to my next discovery of Skyartec's design blunders.

No matter how I set my DX-8 the flaps did not respond correctly. I tried every sensible combination. I was finally able to set the radio with what seems to be the typical three positions flap settings (being) general flight, takeoff, and landing. However initially no matter where I set the percentages the flaps seemed restricted in their movement.
Please understand that my previous experience comes from collective pitch single rotor Helis where the components must fulfill very stringent requirements or the damn thing will never fly. And based on the cost no manufacturer would last long if the design spec were idiotic. I discovered that in fixed wing aircraft at an entry level many manufacturers are simply copying 3D layouts of planes into CAD and cutting things in foam without any consideration of mechanical fit issues.

After several days and thankfully this was the time it took me to work out the ESC and motor issues.... After god only knows how many times I have dismantled and,reassembled the Cessna, I saw the imprint of the Flaps Servo Rod Linkage making an impression against the back wall of what I guess you can call the cockpit area.

So I pulled out the first available chisel and excavated an area at against the back wall which would allow a full range movement for the flaps servo linkage rod. Low and behold now the flaps work exactly as a three position system should (if I am interpreting the available on line information correctly).

That tells me immediately that you had the servo arm and control rod wrongly adjusted. The flap activtaor link will foul the rear cockpit ONLY when mounting the wing ... once in place it should be fine. BT if you have it wrongly set - then you get your problem. There is NO blunder on Skyartecs part ... everyone else seems to have flown this model without similar problems.


With the 30A ESC I can easilly run 1800mAh batteries and I was also able to run a couple of Hyperion 2200mAh power packs. The weight is about 1/3rd heavier than the stock battery, however the burst and higher level sustained discharge rates are more than doubled. I tested the motor with a couple of full battery drain runs on both 1800 and 2200 mAh batteries.

The motor did not overheat at full throttle at up to three minutes. But with the burst rate on these batteries I suspect there is no need to run the motor wide open except for acrobatics which I am probably years away from trying. I simply have these batteries because they were bought for my first 450 heli.
I run a 2280mAh 3S 30C lipo through my factory stock ESC and motor with no problem at all.

Anyway if anyone wants to see pictures of the modifications to the control cavity, I will post them once I understand how this user group interface works. I am better with machines than computers

pesmarker
I realise that mybe my next comment will not please you - but all the problems I read of your experience with the 182 appear of your own ... based on a radio that you need to learn, servo / control installation incorrect, failure to program ESC's with the DX8 ......

There are lots of Skyartec Cessnas out there flying stock .... the factory uses stock moulds, so each model should come out same ... it often comes down to person setting up the model.

I made modifications to mine, but based on personal preference. The model would have flown "out of box" without.

The Skyartec 182 is a good machine that flies better than initial suggests ... have a look at my youtube site :

solentlifeuk

for plenty of flights with it ...

Nigel
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:50 AM
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pesmarker
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Nigel

Thanks for your response. The reason I chiseled out room for the flap movement is because when I went to Flaps up on my radio, I could hear the servo straining against something. At first I didn't know what. But after several times removing the wing to check fit and connections on the receiver, ESC, and motor, the last time is when I finally noticed the indentation of the servo arm clip against the back of the cockpit cavity. At that time the flap settings were a generic +25% up, 0% neutral, and -25% down. Nothing extreme.

This plane was allegedly bind and fly. I didn't change a thing until I discovered electronic triggering problems.

I decided to replace the ESC because the first relevant post I could find about the ESC spoke of buying a programming card (which I have no need for). I did several searches. Your recommendation about reversing servo direction at which point the stock ESC will respond to classic high stick low stick throttle range settings did not pop up. And it was beyond me why any company would release and ESC which didn't comply with what seems normal for all. But it took me all of 20 minutes to add bullet connectors, and swap the ESC to one I already knew worked. There are times where for the sake of eliminating variables which are not rapidly quantified to reach a working mechanical solution, you have to go with what you know works.

I am nt offended by your reply. I appreciate the directness of it. However I am reasonably familiar with my DX-8 it is not radically different than my DX-7. I bought it because it can handle the 140* swashplate on my Rave ENV .90

What I did may have been overkill. But based on positioning it is also possible the flaps servo was mounted to the wing in reverse. If that were the case and the post were just that much closer to the front, there would have been no possibility of the rod linkage clasp hitting the back cockpit wall. Sure no question there are a lot of stock SKYARTEC 182 flying but based on other industries where I am very familiar with production standards' warranty support and what can go wrong. It isn't entirely unreasonable to imagine that wing assembly could have been completed incorrectly. I imagine they check the servos for full range of movement but based on how slightly off all the linkage rod adjustments were off it seems like a stretch that they assembled and flew this plane at the factory.

Think about it. If I didn't touch a single adjustment on what was supposed to be a BNF plane why would I hear the flaps up position straining and then find indentations on the back of the cockpit cavity.

I may be new to fixed wing aircraft. But by comparison the cessna is a very basic compared to any of my single rotor Helis. especially the .50 and .90 where there are two linkage push and pull rods for every servo and I have to deal with controlling blade pitch consistency through the full range of swash plate movement. Helis will not fly unless they are right. There seems to be some wiggle room on entry level fixed wing planes.

None the less I am enjoying my arc of discovery with fixed wing aircraft.

pesmarker
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:34 PM
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If you are making the Flaps move UP past in line with wing instead of just the normal down .... then no wonder your linkage hits the rear wall.

No factory can prepare their ESC etc. for an unknown Transmitter a buyer may use. I had to set-up my Skyartec ESC to follow my 9X ... as with nearly all other ESC's I have.

The Skyartec is not Bind and Fly .... but available in 2 versions : Plug and Play and RTF ............
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:27 AM
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Bottom Line, right or wrong the dealer I bought it from listed it as add a Reciever and good to go.

The provided manual was pathetic and I had to sort things out based on available information. I looked at a wide range of scale 182 models flying and many to accommodate flaps up as well as neutral and flaps down.

I am sure you have more experience with the SKYARTEC Cessna 182. But I have to work with available information and discover what is right or wrong. If my posts offend you for whatever reason, maybe it would help to think back to when you were new to fixed wing RC.

Everyone has to make their own brand of mistakes. User groups are allegedly supposed to be forums for help and friendly assistance versus a torching match.

A seasoned expert in a field is supposed to recognize and to some degree tolerate the foibles of a novice. At least that is how I was trained in my field, and I have successfully trained several people over the last 30 years.

I may come off as an upstart. But if you are an expert you can show a littler tolerance for one who is learning the ropes.

Cheers

pesmarker
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:40 PM
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Pesmarker ........ I am not flaming you or trying to be an ar** ..... I ma concerned that anyone else reading about such a model and contemplating buying has more correct info.

I do not wish to couch my advice in soft wash ... I speak plain fact so people can get info plain and simple.

Sorry that you do not appreciate my straight talking ........... but I hope that you can extract the relevant data to assist in enjoying your 182.


With regard to flaps ............ unless you wish to have spoilers - there is no reason to have them rise UP past neutral. The Skyartec 182 is not designed or intended with Spoiler operation. That is why you hit the rear wall with the linkages.

The ESC's ........ do you not think it strange that all but 1 ESC worked ? Doesn't that indicate a Tx / set-up problem rather than the model.

I took up the challenge of reading your long start post about ESC's and flaps etc. The post when examined showed up errors that I basically pointed out and hoped that the info could help.

I hope you enjoy your 182 ... it's an excellent flyer.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:22 AM
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Solentlife,

Thanks. I appreciate the explanation. However, you did not mention anything about 182 design and requiring spoilers for upward flap use in your previous post.

re: ESC I do a lot of component trouble shooting at work. There are a few product we have to service which have servos and are extremely finicky. There is also some large computer driven machinery which I use daily which can be remarkably finicky in regard to memory, interface cards, and other nonsense. The thing is I went back and tested the 40a ESC units after I got the 182 to initialize with the 30a still no luck. It is odd but possible both are defective. Tried a 35a and it worked. I didn't change any radio settings.

I have learned there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to diagnostic work.

I do sincerely appreciate your taking the time to explain thing in greater detail the second time around.

Life is too short and we need to enjoy it

pesmarker
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:07 PM
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Hi Pesmarker ........... believe it or not - I'm a nice guy !! and I love to help people .... I am also the comedian on the flight line BUT safe !!

Have a look at my vids on youtube ... solentlifeuk .... they will show a different person to what your possible first impression of me was !!

You will also see a number of vids of the 182 ... onboard and ground based ....... shwoing that she is remarkably agile even as a stock machine.

I love my 182 as it is my 'warm up machine' after I've been away working for a while. It's a steady flyer and as stock well powered .... so is near vice free.
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:31 AM
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Solentlife,

I will check out your YouTube vids.

Sometimes, rough starts bloom into great friendships


pesmarker
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by pesmarker View Post
Solentlife,

I will check out your YouTube vids.

Sometimes, rough starts bloom into great friendships


pesmarker
Sure - I'm not such a bad guy really ....

I really hope you get as much fun out of your 182 as I do.

I've come up with all sorts of tricks to repair bits instead of buying new etc. Modifications such as separate aileron servos ...

Always there to help.

Nigel
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:00 AM
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So you'd add a second aileron servo and bridge the off a y connector to the receiver similar to an eFlite Grasshopper? I just read through that manual over the weekend or I would not have thought that was possible. I was kind of surprised there was no impedance issue causing two servos connected in parallel to operate less efficiently because the are sharing the same power source.

Although the Grasshopper is a super light weight slow flyer. So I guess any efficiency losses are less significant. With everything I've absorbed from larger single rotor Helis, I was surprised when I discovered restricted flaps movement on the Cessna. On. All the Helis I've built and manuals I've read as cross reference all components must be binding free. If there are supposed to be range of movement limitations, it gets handled on the radio with servo travel adjusment.

So I hope that helps explaine why I thought the Cessna flaps issue was some kind of fabrication oversite.

Anyway, more later as events warrant

pesmarker
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:40 AM
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Flaps arte different to ailerons / elevators in that movement is not about a centre point but from end to end. In that I mean you sert flaps as zero at one end of servo / Tx control switch and full deflection at other end of servo switch travel.
I use a knob on my 9x which gives proportional deployment of flaps from zero to full - avoiding that awful pitch game when flicking a switch.

The two aileron servos ......... only modification really is to cut the strut mount plates where the old bell-cranks were so servo can sit in and arm operate.



I always use a soldering iron to make slots / holes / cutouts in foam - it welds the foam into a strong skin instead of removing it as a knife would. It makes for a good surface to add epoxy to level and then double side tape to stick servo in. The servo and it's mate have been in that wing for most last summer and winter and no movement or problems. After the photo - filled in with hot glue with plastic wrap protecting the servo ... then after removing the wrap ... covered with white packing tape.

The leads are led back via the old channel that had the operating rod in ... a Y lead at centre to the Rx.

You MUST maintain the strut integrity as they are important to prevent the wing folding ....

I only really altered tio separate servos because the servo stripped a gear and the Skyartec servo is slightly smaller than a standard 9gr. So I couldn't replace in the mount with one of my spare TG/ TP9's ... So decided to do the mod and get direct control.

Power of 2 servos like that ? Why a problem ? Many models have such set-ups without any hassle at all. It's the simplest way to do it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:56 AM
  #17  
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Problem of arming "EMax 18 amp brushless ESC"

kindly help me out my "EMax 18 amp ESC" was working absolutely fine yesterday but today it is not even arming no beep at all...only red led permanent glowing on it...any idea what it indicates? i have tried many times but no success
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:43 AM
  #18  
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So if I understand your intent. Your goal is to achieve major negative flaps for landings?

If level with the wing teardrop shape is zero, approximately how many degrees down are you going for?

I found one YouTube video recommending using the DX8 Flappons setup with -75% pitch at flaps down activation.

What say you SolentWanKanLifei
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