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Old 12-03-2017, 10:57 PM   #1
dereckbc
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Default Heading & Rate Gain Explained

OK this is in support of my AS3X Thread I started about a year ago fo rbeginners working with AR626 receivers, or really any of the Spektrum AS3X Rx. Most folks are confused with Rate and Heading gains and how to use them. So here is my take on how and when to use Gains.

Rate aka Conventional Gain

Rate Gain comes from the helifreak and quad crowd. Think of Rate Gain as a shock absorber where it RESIST movement in any of the 3-axis of Yaw, Pitch, and Roll. Example you are flying and the plane gets hit with a gust of cross wind, and Yaws the plane. With Rate Gain will stop the Yawing effect of the wind. However in the coarse of doing so, your plane Yaws 10 degrees off course before Rate Gain can stop it. To get back to the original heading you must make the correction. Rate Gain will not return you to the original heading, that is your job.

Heading Gain

Goes one step further than Rate Gain. In the above example, not only will Heading Gain resist movement, but it will also return the aircraft back to the same Heading or Attitude before it was knocked off course. It makes the plane Fly-by-Wire. Example if you pitch the nose up 10 degrees, and return the stick to neutral, the plane will hold the nose up 10 degrees until you push the nose back down. Same with Roll, if you roll 30 degrees, and return the estick to neutral, the plane will hold 30 degrees Roll until you level it out. This all assumes you have enough air flowing over the control surfaces to keep the plane at a given attitude.

So how do you use the two together? Well for me, I do not use both, I only use Heading Gain. Only thing I use Rate Gain for is setup. Allow me to explain.

The AR636 has 3 Flight Modes, which you should take advantage of. As I said I only use Rate Gain to setup a plane. Gains are Airspeed sensitive. Faster you go, the less Gain you need. Otherwise the plane will oscillate and shake itself to pieces.

FM1 is my chicken or safe mode. Throws are set low to 30% with 20 to 30% Expo. No Gains of any kind. This makes the receiver a standard RX with no Gyros. I use it to take off, land, test CG, and trim. If the plane misbehaves in FM2 or FM3, I switch back to FM1 to regain control and land with.

FM2 is my fast airspeed mode. Initially I set FM2 using Rate Gain only in Relative mode so I can adjust gain while in flight. Example I will start with Yaw only, and set Rate Gain to something very high like 80%. Then with th eTX roll it back to 0%, take off, set throttle to 3/4 straight level flight, then turn up the gain until I notice and oscillation, then roll back Gain until oscillation stops. Land and record reading. Then turn off Yaw and activate Pitch and repeat. Then finish up on Pitch. Once I have all three axis tuned in at 3/4 throttle, I turn off Rate Gain, turn on Heading Gain with Absolute,and set the rates to what I recorded during flight test at 3/4 throttle.

FM3 is my Slow 3D mode. I do the exact same thing as FM2. except at 0 or low airspeeds. Example fly a harrier and adjust pitch to hold. Then land and work on Roll. For the Rudder or Yaw I use a high alpha knife edge.

When said and done, I do not use Rate Gains, just Heading Gain. You can use both, and if you do use both make Rate Gain equal to or less than Heading Gain. Here is why. Heading Gain is only active if the axis is NEUTRAL. Touch the axis stick and move it off center, and you turn-off Heading gain for that axis only. Rate gain does not turn off if you move a stick, it only reduces gain depending on how far off center you move that axis and is controlled with PRIORITY.

Hope that helps and feel free to ask questions or make comments.

Dereck
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:03 AM   #2
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Post deleted out of respect for derekbc

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Old 12-04-2017, 04:49 PM   #3
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Edited......:

Just trying to keep it real and within the scope of the "topic".

My apologies to the OP....!
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:02 PM   #4
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P.... my post was addition to Derek's and not as 'nitpicking' or to detract from his post.
The Title of the thread was "Heading & Rate Gain Explained" ..... opening a door to allow others to add. Someone else may wish to add the Eagle Tree system to the thread ... that way we get quite a wider range.

Deleted out of respect for derekbc

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Old 12-04-2017, 05:24 PM   #5
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Edited....:

Just a thought in order to keep "apples with apples"....topic header may have been better served as a Spektrum analysis......Thanks...!
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:07 PM   #6
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P - I shall resist the reply that you deserve to have now and let you have the stage. You obviously feel the need as usual.

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Old 12-04-2017, 07:53 PM   #7
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I dont want to derail the thread into a debate about fly by wire but i tend to side with Dereck in that the Heading Hold (HH) mode of these gyros is a form of fly by wire.

Google gives this definition for FBW:
fly by wire (FBW) replaces conventional mechanical flight controls with an electronic interface. The pilot's movements of the flight controls are converted to electrical signals, which are interpreted by the flight control computers
And this fits perfectly. In HH mode you aren't controlling the surfaces directly from the Tx. The amount that the surface moves is no longer proportional to how far you move the stick. You are instead inputting a heading command into the flight controllers computer and it moves the surfaces by an amount it determines necessary in order to achieve that commanded heading. (it uses gyros to sense the heading change).

This (the fact that servo response is not proportional to stick movement) causes a lot of confusion for people who dont fully understand how these systems work.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:43 PM   #8
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Moderators please delete this thread it permanently to never be seen again. Usual suspect showed up and derailed it from a informative thread to a pissing contest. I will take my information elsewhere.
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:33 AM   #9
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Cool

Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Moderators please delete this thread it permanently to never be seen again. Usual suspect showed up and derailed it from a informative thread to a pissing contest. I will take my information elsewhere.
I would not suggest deleting the thread. People have expressed opinions, that is all. As is common, there are disagreements.


The idea that "we all know" is absurd as we do not all know. And very few have been doing this since the 60s. So such comments simply demonstrate that an opinion is being expressed, not necessarily fact.

Never let the opinion of others take away from the good you have provided. Never take such comments personally. I think those who read this thread will be able to sort it out on their own.

Nice work!

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Old 12-05-2017, 05:23 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
I would not suggest deleting the thread. People have expressed opinions, that is all. As is common, there are disagreements.
OK I have heard from two moderators, and they insist on leaving the thread up. I have cooled the engines and I like to think I am fair. My disgust was not Nigel's reply, it was the pissing contest that occurred after Nigel's reply. If I had any problem with Nigel's reply would have been it was outside the scope of the Topic as it was really limited to Spektrum Rx, not Orange and Lemon fruit salad. In fairness I should have put Spektrum in the title.

Alright I think this is a fair request and win-win solution for everyone including the Forum. Delete every post after my initial opening post including this one. Everything after my initial post has nothing to do with the topic, not helpful to anyone or anything, and bad for the Forum airing dirty laundry. Clean it up please.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:56 PM   #11
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OK Guys and Gals ...........

We have Chellie back with us .......... missed you "Gorgeous" .... pity you are playing with balls .... GOLF balls .... but great you're back.

The "fissing pit" has been cleared up and we can all get back to being chums ... c'mon - this is not like some other forums where bad apples just sour up and stay !!

I made an error in widening the topic. Slap my wrists. OK.

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Old 12-06-2017, 01:08 AM   #12
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I love it when all play nice.

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