AEAJR

Best on the market
https://www.aerofoam.com/complete-highstarts.html

This one will get you 12 to 13 pounds as I recall.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXYXK5&P=7

Kasperwing

Thank you Ed!

1. Did anyone ever try the "turn-around" pulley system for high starts? I remember reading that you were going to try, but it was to cold and you had use of a wench. It seems like such a good idea!

2. I went to the Aerofoam site. What would be the experience of using the Highstart vs their "zip-start"?

Sincerely,
Dave
South Louisiana

AEAJR

I never did try the pulley hi-start system.

Zip starts, as he is using it, are also called upstarts, basically short hi-starts. Note that some of his are very very strong and will tear the wings off of non-competition gliders. You could use the first one, 15' of 3M rubber but it is going to give you a very short launch.

Based on the planes you mentioned you want the 3M model. Remember you don't have to pull it all the way back. You can do a partial pull to get lower tension but if that is not enough and you are already at 3X pull, you are sunk.

Since you seem to want a shorter one, get the 50 foot rubber option. You will pull that 150 feet at full pull or 100 feet at partial pull. He includes 250 feet of line. If that is too much you can cut it and put in a 75 pound snap swivel so you can have less or more line.

In my full size hi-start I have 100 feet of rubber with 250 feet of line, snap swivel, 150 feet of line, snap swivel, 100 feet of line. This way i can adjust to the size of the field.

Kasperwing

Is there a cheap way to do a wench or do used ones ever come available?

If I am just flying for fun, maybe I do not even need a wench...? Thoughts?

AEAJR

Do used ones ever become available? Of course. I would check Craig's list, e-bay and the buy/sell area of www.rcgroups.com as they have a large sailplane community.

New ones are typically around $500, I think. Then you need a car battery, turn around, pedal, line. I have my own so I have not been in the market.

http://www.irfmachineworks.com/lbwinch/
http://www.mgertech.com/COMET-WINCHES.htm
https://www.soaringusa.com/AC-NN-WINCH.html

What is wrong with a hi-start?

Kasperwing

I do not think anything is wrong with a HS. I guess I am looking at all of my options.

When NE sail ( ) was around, I bought a Graphite from Sal ( )
This was in the mid 90's. I did this with my son back in those days. I actually don't remember much, but from what I do remember we had very little success. So then we motorized the beast. The then very expensive motor did not last that long. I think it was an Aveox. We also had the extreme displeasure of fighting ni-cads, poor chargers. Not to mention the added weight of the batteries and motor. Oh, sure it worked, but I do not remember much success finding a thermal. The Graphite seemed very fragile because the least amount of up elevator at speed and the wings would bend. I seem to remember having to walk alot. I know compared to now, I knew nothing about the art of flying a sailplane. When I got into discuss launch in ~ 2002 time frame, I then had access to the internet. With all of that information, I had success with the DLG. 3D was just starting and we both became good at it. There were very few ( VERY FEW) electric planes. We flew 45 size YS motors on tuned pipes attached to the Morris Hobby Sudohkoi (sp). Great fun and we flew several times a week. I so wanted success with gliders, but after Sal's questionable advise, the fact that I just spent north of $4,000. to soar, I did not feel like the Eagle I envisioned... more like a Turkey did I feel.

I guess when it comes to a HS vs Wench, they will both use up space at the flying club. Its a small club with less than 25 members. Most of them fly pattern and not that often. So I often have the field to myself, specially since I can go anytime, and not just weekends.

I think I should look on RC groups since they have a large glider contingent and weight the pro's and con's of all methods of launch.

I am thinking that with todays electric set-up's, and since ballast is required anyway, the electric would solve all of the issues if the plane's ability to stay aloft does not suffer from adding the electric motor. Talking to Soaring USA only causes more questions. I wonder how much are they trying to sell gear vs looking at all options.
There are no gliders with in a 5-8 hour hour drive. So the only way I can find answers is via threads like this. I also do not have money to just try different things. I have to make the best decision that works for me. Thank you for your help!
Sincerely,
Dave

Kasperwing

Thanks for the links to the wench's. The LBW seems to be the best choice considering costs and completeness. I am MUCH MUCH more inclined to go with a HighStart from Aerofoam. OK... here is my line of thought... please tell me where i am wrong ( or right) as the case may be.

Todays top gliders, Pike, Explorer, Shadow, Sharon ( who else am I missing?) can be simply hand launched and sometimes find lift then soar to ones heart content. Well anyway from what I have found on You Tube. So with a modest boost from a HS to 100 to 200 feet, soaring WILL happen ( unless conditions are NON soar PERIOD).

In the 1990s and early 2000's Lipo and motor-combo that weigh less than ballast did not exist. So wouldn't a motor/lipo set up set up solve everything. That is unless the glider will come down sooner with the motor.... all things being equal.

AEAJR

Hand throwing those gliders to catch lift would be an enormous effort but I have seen it done. I will never attempt it as a main lanuch method. Those are winch planes and hi-start second.

If you want to hand launch gliders then get a DLG, discus launched. Tons of fun and made for hand launching.
https://www.soaringusa.com/DLG-HLG/

As for 3-gliders, that is a fast growing segment of the soaring hobby. today's modern e-gliders are extremely good and thermal very well.

F22trainer

Ok. Time to share some of my fun from the past - I'll see if I can find the pictures when I go to the shop tomorrow and then post them up.
I had recently moved to Or. from Va. and discovered a nearby local flying field which was at the end of a dead end road, which had been bypassed with a new 4 lane. Not a club, but always someone flying, and everyone was knowledgeable of the flying etiquette and safety...it was a few miles from Hillsboro Airport and plenty of space. On the other side of that new road was one lone house with wide open acreage all around it. And as luck would have it, it was owned by a co-worker that gave me free flying privileges! It was well over a mile to the other side of the road. Well, during a layoff, a mutual coworker friend gave me his Gentle Lady to repair - he had destroyed the nose after hitting a goal post at the high school. He had everything from the kit leftovers and I had plenty of balsa as well, along with the plans. I didn't like the single rubber band system or the balsa formers, so naturally I tweaked things around. A little lite ply here and there, a nylon wing bolt system and all recovered with his leftover red monokote. Called him and told I had it ready - "bring it on over" and I did. He was blown away and he said "let's go try it - I'lll get the sticks to balance it."
You see, we were in construction - I am known for meticulous trim, cabinetry and door work. The plane was flawless and even the wiring had been neatly installed with removable attach points and foam tapes in all the right places.

It already is, John.

Wow...let's go, as he headed for the door - I said "where we going - it's getting ready to rain"
"Oh, just a few houses down is a huge vacant lot - we can at least test glide".
John lived in a large neighborhood with lot of trees, and it started to sprinkle. Sure enough, half a block and there was plenty of room to do a few launches. He handed me the Tx and said - "do the honors, I'll toss it", as he switched on the receiver and Tx.
Didn't even have time to think about it as he firmly stepped into the throw, dead straight ahead. The nose never dipped or pitched - it left his hand and I tapped the down elevator just to ensure it did not balloon or try to catch some lift as it headed toward the edge of the lot. About a foot off the ground in the ground effect I slowly began to flare and it lived up to it's Gentle Lady name settling into the now damp grass. We did one more with him on the radio and had to head back from the rain.
He was ecstatic and could not wait for good weather, which coincidently the news weatherman on the TV was promising for tomorrow.
"We should meet at Tims' over by the airport tomorrow"
I'll be there I replied, after you finish work. John was our foreman and usually got a few extra weeks after we finished..
The weatherman was right. 4 PM and dead calm with lots of sun in the 70's!
I had brought my Sophisticated Lady to do it's maiden test - with the electric power pod!
Well, we hand launched John's bird a few more times when He decided to get out his Hi Start.
Having never used one except for one tragic towline attempt in my teens, I said "all yours - I am going to try a few hand launches with this new bird"
There was so much acreage we had no worries of a mid air.
Since it was a fair walk back to his truck, I proceeded to preflight and work up my nerves.
First launch needed a bit more steam as it was a much heavier bird than John's sister ship (I actually had a finished Gentle Lady at home but no radio) and it stalled and went nose first into the soft soil.
Pulled out, wiped off the muddy wet soil and wow - no damage!
I look over at John as he released his bird on the high start. Up and up it went to around 200 feet before it levelled and fell of the hook. I was hinting to my self "He's got this glider flying down to a science"
I was actually coming from the gas powered side of the road and new to gliders, mostly.
So as I watch this stable drop off and Gentle glide, he's making a nice wide right hand circle. I count 3 full 360 degree circles and on the last he flys it about 12 feet off the ground and lands straight head into the wind, what little there was.
I yelled "nice Flight!"
He starts walking over and I can see the huge grin on his face, as Tim was getting his plane. He is about 50 feet away and says, "I never touched the controls"
"Was still a great landing," I said.
"No, you don't understand - I never touched a lever," he says.
Not once from the release? I asked.
John chuckled, "it used to turn left when I let it go and it started to turn a little right, because I was used to holding that in so I just let go of it and the never touched it"
I was very glad he was so happy with his plane - he had crashed that goal post on it's 2nd flight. But he kept insisting it was no where near as easy to fly as it was now.
I did tweak the washout a little reshape the nose a bit and straightened some issues with the tail feathers. A few little tweaks to the control rods and servos was also in order to reduce the friction.
Anyway, the next launch of the Sophisticated Lady was a complete success - I had reduced the battery power in order to just give it nothing more than a powered glide, and got it trimmed nicely.
The sun was setting and we headed our ways.
But that night I remembered I had an older Futaba radio that had charging issues and thought I might open it up and at least see if It was salvageable. While it was charging, I happened across an an article in RCM on black wire corrosion...
And that weekend, I showed up with both airplanes at a wide open field with tall grass near my home, with my own Hi Start and fully charged batteries for the Sophisticated Lady, but that is another story.

AEAJR

Aerofoam is probably still the best source for hi-starts.
https://www.aerofoam.com/products.html

Tower has the Dynaflite that work but are low end. The HD is good up to about a 4 pound glider, in my opinion.
https://www.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...EARCH=hi-start

F22trainer

I made my Hi-start, buying a 100’ roll of 1/4” surgical rubber tube and attaching it to 250’ of 400 lb. test monofilament fishing line. Anchor it with a 2 foot long piece of 1/2 inch rebar with a 2 inch loop bent in the top. I think it stretches about a quarter mile and it’s a beautiful long slow climb.

Fishlips

Where did you get the surgical tubing? How much was it?

Thanks

bredler

I bought a used Hosemonster which seems to be in good shape. It was advertised as a 3m bungee but is actually a 2m comp bungee. It is in two 50' sections so I can run, one, two parallel, or two serial.

I have an Oly III (3.4m, 1066 sq in wing area, 60 oz/3.75 lb) that I just built which has the CG at the location listed on the plans, and the tow hook at or slightly behind that. When I hang the plane upside down from the tow hook it is *slightly* nose down but roughly 8 grams on the tail corrects that to dead level.

This will be my first high start! I measure that 3.3x stretch gives me 10lb of force. Running the rubber in parallel gives me ~14 lbs at 2x stretch.

Any tips for first launch after hand toss trimming?

AEAJR

First, read the first post as it has a full set of instructions for launching with a bungee/hi-start. Step by step.

having the tow hook behind the CG is dangerous. I would not start with it there. Even my competition gliders have the hook slightly forward of the CG. As is outlined in the first post, I suggest you start with the hook well forward, maybe 1/2 inch, even 3/4 of an inch forward of the CG. Then, as you gain confidence, you can move it back.

F22trainer