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Unified Market Gets Attacked by RCG

Old 11-14-2005, 02:22 PM
  #26  
gouch
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Better off beating RGgroups by having better forums and content, and getting their sponsors to move over
That won't work ET, there will NEVER, EVER be ads on this site, remember


ET - you are correct and I agree. Personally I would not have posted over there
Marc, why didn't you just simply say that a few days ago here instead of going on about how Jim is doing 'this and that'?

I on the other hand would have just let people find out on their own.
Again, this is basically what I have been trying to get across. You don't need to spam your cause on other sites, as ET said all you have to do is just do it better and they will come. But I honestly think that most people shy away from "pressure". You keep spamming stuff like Mike did, and they will run to get FAR away.

As I have said in posts above information wants to be free and people will find out and make choices.
I still have no idea on what your "information wants to be free" thing you have going there? It IS free for those who want to find it. Those that don't want to find it are obviously happy enough, so leave them be, if they become unhappy, then you will win out long term.

I get quite a lot of work for myself from just sitting back and doing my thing, and letting my competition shoot themselves in the foot with over inflated claims, slander, etc People aren't stupid, they DO know when they think they are being pushed into something they may not want.
I am far from a big succesfull buisnessman, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I would never publically criticize my competition, the majority of people really hate that.


and we don't confer beforehand on what we both do outside the site
That is either a crock, or you really need to discuss the way you do buisness together.
Surely you guys have an understanding to know anything the other does if it relates to the buisness before they release stuff like this to the mainstream???
Especially if it involves publically releasing buisness proposals, which is exactly what that was, and especially as both of you have been hounding Jim for 3 years about it......

Take it as a compliment when I say, I think you knew exactly what was going on
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Old 11-14-2005, 04:22 PM
  #27  
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"That won't work ET, there will NEVER, EVER be ads on this site, remember "

Wattflyer is intended to be an anarcho-syndaclist commune, self-sustaining by means of a organic hydroponic pixel farm. Nobody told you that?




"Marc, why didn't you just simply say that a few days ago here instead of going on about how Jim is doing 'this and that'?



Again, this is basically what I have been trying to get across. You don't need to spam your cause on other sites, as ET said all you have to do is just do it better and they will come. But I honestly think that most people shy away from "pressure". You keep spamming stuff like Mike did, and they will run to get FAR away."

No harm in getting the word out, I say. Lots of people do not KNOW there is an alternative.



"I get quite a lot of work for myself from just sitting back and doing my thing, and letting my competition shoot themselves in the foot with over inflated claims, slander, etc People aren't stupid,"

I beleive you are mistaken...most people ARE stupid...

"they DO know when they think they are being pushed into something they may not want."

It happens ALL THE TIME.

"I am far from a big succesfull buisnessman, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I would never publically criticize my competition, the majority of people really hate that."

Very true.




"That is either a crock, or you really need to discuss the way you do buisness together. "


Having partners can be tough. I do beleive Marc when he says Michael never consulted HIM before posting.

"Surely you guys have an understanding to know anything the other does if it relates to the buisness before they release stuff like this to the mainstream??? "

Doubt it. Really.

"Especially if it involves publically releasing buisness proposals, which is exactly what that was, and especially as both of you have been hounding Jim for 3 years about it......

Take it as a compliment when I say, I think you knew exactly what was going on "

I tend to think Marc is being completely sincere. Michael does NOT understand the forums, the markets, the people, and he has ALWAYS been trying to do stuff that might fly selling used cars or whatever, but just does not work in this little model airplane world. He's ALWAYS got some marketing scheme that may look good to HIM, and might SEEM to be valid to an outsider, but to those who are more familiar with the model airplane venue, is an obvious mistake.
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Old 11-14-2005, 09:00 PM
  #28  
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Well I gotta say I knew only AFTER he posted it that it was done. I figured some fallout was going to ensue after reading it. I've made that same mistake too many times myself over the years to do it again.

As far as the phrase "information wants to be free" what I mean by that is selective censorship. By not allowing people to know about other things which may be of interest to them solely because it has no personal or financial benefit. A site owner might choose to only allow what they see as non-competitive to them and thus disallow any information which could potentially financially harm them even if that information was in fact beneficial to their own customers.

You will notice here that choices for forum or classifieds are given. Also you will find threads here that point to what anyone would deem as "competitive" to WattFlyer but therein lies the twist. WattFlyer need not compete with anyone because it has nothing to lose. It generates $0.00 for its owner/operators. Its purpose and mission is not to generate money. Therefore it can act in different ways, enforce different policies and allow information to be as free as it wants to be. Matter of fact I urge anyone who loves wattflyer and wants to donate to help support it to instead donate to one of the following charitable organizations.

Yorkie Rescue - Saves yorkie's who have been put in shelters or given up
http://www.yorkierescueme.org


Human Society - www.hsus.org - Protects all animals


ASPCA - www.aspca.org - Prevents cruelty to animals

While these are not the only worthy charities I personally support or contribute to with my own mone or time, I am partial to these three as animals are often mistreated by people and need our help as they cannot help themselves all too often.

So if you enjoy Wattflyer.com and were thinking of maybe giving $5, $10, $25, $100 or whatever to help support this site click one of those links above instead & please and help out in any way you can. Donations are tax-deductible for those while a donation to WattFlyer would not be.

thanks

marc
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Old 11-14-2005, 10:11 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by admin View Post
Well I gotta say I knew only AFTER he posted it that it was done. I figured some fallout was going to ensue after reading it. I've made that same mistake too many times myself over the years to do it again.
A simple apology to Jim might help a bit towards smoothing his and others' hackles in the wake of this. If you truly regret how this all went down in your absence, then show it by apologizing to Jim on his board. You might also try revising your approach, or just simply accept what is.

Originally Posted by admin View Post
As far as the phrase "information wants to be free" what I mean by that is selective censorship. By not allowing people to know about other things which may be of interest to them solely because it has no personal or financial benefit. A site owner might choose to only allow what they see as non-competitive to them and thus disallow any information which could potentially financially harm them even if that information was in fact beneficial to their own customers.
Neither Jim nor RCG is forcefully preventing anyone from viewing/using any information you have either on RCU or Wattflyer. That it isn't all linked together on one grand site doesn't make the case for it not being freely available to anyone who has an idea where to look and has the desire to do so. You're arguing for one-stop shopping convenience (ostensibly), not information-sharing.

By your logic, not having saltwater fishing or witchcraft content on RCU would also be considered 'selective censorship'. We on this side of the monitor have the freedom to surf both your site(s) AND RCGroups to find what we want, along with a zillion other sites. It's far from a zero-sum game WRT who holds the information.

Either your argument is simply disingenuous, or you are severely underestimating web-savvy R/Cers' ability to find the information they seek--regardless of its source.

Rick
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Old 11-15-2005, 01:00 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Electrick View Post

Either your argument is simply disingenuous, or you are severely underestimating web-savvy R/Cers' ability to find the information they seek--regardless of its source.

Rick
Rick,

I truly think the amount of web savvy rc'ers is in the minority. The difference is that I see what people can find on our own sites and what they can't. I see what questions they ask of our support team and you don't see those. Most people online are not very web savvy or computer savvy. This does NOT mean that there are those who aren't savvy in these ways. It means that those are simply the minority (or so I have seen over the years).

Do you know how many people go to www.google.com and type in a url like www.rcuniverse.com or whatever to find the website? Huge! People come to rcu and ask us where our forums are. This is despite the huge forum button on the top and the left size too. While many eventually find their way and muddle through after much frustration the fact remains (at least I feel) that RC'ers have a tough time finding things wherever they go online. 4 years of reading support emails, posts, tickets and weblogs for RCU and other sites gives me this point of view. I could be wrong ( I hope I am wrong) but only going on the data that has presented itself to me.

marc
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Old 11-15-2005, 01:04 AM
  #31  
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Electrick is just another hardcore RCgroups patriot who just came over here to give you a hard time, far as I can see. This is not a "winnable" argument.
Over on RCgroups, they would just label him a "troll".
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Old 11-15-2005, 08:20 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by easytiger View Post
Electrick is just another hardcore RCgroups patriot who just came over here to give you a hard time, far as I can see. This is not a "winnable" argument.
Over on RCgroups, they would just label him a "troll".
Thanks for the assessment, ET.

Regardless of what you may think I am, my participation in this thread is simply that of offering counter arguments/opinions to the (IMHO flimsy) ones being presented here as rationale for what was done over on RCG. I am a small business owner myself, and as such I would have been just as put off by what was done by Kranitz--and especially HOW it was done (and not just the cut and pasted logos either)--as Jim Bourke was. If that makes me some sort of apologist for Jim, then you're entitled to your opinion, right or wrong.

You simply can't FORCE someone to do business with you. All the rationalizing being done here about how much better life for everyone would be won't ever change that.

My position WRT the thread subject won't affect one iota my continued use of the RCU or Wattflyer boards themselves. That's been part of my point all along. The beauty of having multiple web boards on the web is that it gives us a choice to either use--or not use--any or all of them, in whole or in part. I don't have any particular allegiance to any one.

If you'd do a user search, you'll find that I frequent this board, RCUniverse, RCGroups, and a couple other R/C related web boards. That hardly qualifies me as a "hardcore RCGroups patriot".

Sorry if I'm not toeing the Wattflyer/RCU line like you want me (and RCG) to. Not really.

BTW, 'trolls' are not defined as those who post differing opinions from the original poster while discussing a given subject.

If that were the accepted definition for 'troll', you'd likely win a prize for being the biggest troll ever to frequent an R/C web forum.

Rick

Last edited by Electrick; 11-15-2005 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 11-15-2005, 09:54 PM
  #33  
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Hey fellas...I think everyone vented here (I hope)...let's talk about some planes/helis now pleeeeeeeeeeze

thanks
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Old 11-15-2005, 10:16 PM
  #34  
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There's always the 'Close Thread' option.

I've said about all I have to say. Anything more is just repetition, falling on deaf ears. I won't change any minds here, and you likely won't either--so it's a draw AFAIC.

Besides, I'm not the guy you have to convince in the first place.

Rick
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Old 11-16-2005, 04:33 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by easytiger
Over on RCgroups, they would just label him a "troll".
It seems no matter what forum you're on, you always resort to name calling.

I think you're a *bit* confused, tiger - that's what they call you "over there". And it's a title you earned.

ElectRick has a stellar reputation on RCG - something he's earned.

ET, this is a nice forum run by guys just trying to give modelers what they want. Don't ruin it for everyone.
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Old 11-16-2005, 04:45 AM
  #36  
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Can we start a forum just for RCgroups Ex-moderators? There seem to be an awful LOT of them posting here!
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Old 11-16-2005, 04:48 AM
  #37  
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I've got an even better idea - why don't you just concentrate on airplane related topics and stop all the personal attacks.
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Old 11-16-2005, 04:54 AM
  #38  
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You seem to spend an awful lot of time and concern over here defending RCgroups...not talking about airplanes...
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Old 11-16-2005, 05:15 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by easytiger View Post
Can we start a forum just for RCgroups Ex-moderators? There seem to be an awful LOT of them posting here!
What a BRILLIANT IDEA! What shall it be called, RCG-XM?
 
Old 11-16-2005, 05:15 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by admin View Post
after much frustration the fact remains (at least I feel) that RC'ers have a tough time finding things wherever they go online. 4 years of reading support emails, posts, tickets and weblogs for RCU and other sites gives me this point of view. I could be wrong ( I hope I am wrong) but only going on the data that has presented itself to me.
It's not you man. Most people are stupid. Add a computer and teh Intarweb and they simply become click and drool idiots.

Geez, boy am I cranky today.

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Old 11-16-2005, 05:20 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by qban_flyer View Post
What a BRILLIANT IDEA! What shall it be called, RCG-XM?

A support group, where they can all sit around in a big circle of folding chairs and talk about the paradox of how they all love RCgroups so much but they all got fired or "retired". It's a complex question they can spend hours pondering. I will donate the Kleenex!
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Old 11-16-2005, 05:22 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Twmaster View Post
It's not you man. Most people are stupid. Add a computer and teh Intarweb and they simply become click and drool idiots.

Geez, boy am I cranky today.

Cranky, but correct. My wife is always reminding me of that...sometimes I get frustrated with people, and she tells me "don't forget...people are stupid." She is, as usual, right. Most people ARE. Most. Not all.
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Old 11-16-2005, 05:42 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by easytiger
You seem to spend an awful lot of time and concern over here defending RCgroups...not talking about airplanes...
Actually, I visit here infrequently - except when I get email notification of another one of your nonsense posts from a thread I posted in previously.

I didn't start this thread - Michael did - and asked for opinions.
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Old 11-16-2005, 05:53 AM
  #44  
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Now, if I said "your nonsense posts" on that OTHER site, what do you think would happen? Instant button push, a warning, and an accusation of "troll!"
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:37 AM
  #45  
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Curtis,
I have no intention of debating this nonsense. I have better things to do. A sailplane wing is waiting for me to put on some sheeting.

Go build an airplane. It's waaaay more fun than this petty bickering.

Have a good evening.
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Old 11-16-2005, 10:07 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by admin View Post
Hey fellas...I think everyone vented here (I hope)...let's talk about some planes/helis now pleeeeeeeeeeze

thanks
Now, if they would just listen.
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:13 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Rugar View Post
Now, if they would just listen.
Here is a push that I hope helps.


Thread closed.
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