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All it takes is one person ( We now have a new field)

Old 05-11-2013, 02:55 PM
  #26  
Wrongway-Feldman
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Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
They do that to motocross tracks all the time- move in knowing it's there, then they shut it down.
This is a problem everywhere. People move into a home knowing it is in an area prone to flooding, then and complain when there is a flood and demand the government do something about it.
Locally, in the neighborhood I live in, they recently built a Light Rail transit station. The tracks run right through a residential neighborhood. The corridor for the tracks was clearly marked at the time the neighborhood was built. Every home owner adjacent to the corridor where the train was to run knew from the day they bought their house that a train was going to be running behind their house.
As soon as the project was completed and the trains started running all the people living next to the tracks started complaining about the noise.
It's the same with people complaining about the noise from a flying field after they move in to a new house. If they didn't know the field was there then it is their own fault for not properly checking out the area where they are moving to.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:41 PM
  #27  
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Here is a story about a legal battle in British Columbia, Canada about noise complaints from a club field.
http://globalnews.ca/news/524532/aer...-legal-battle/
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:22 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
The land owner loves us, and offers his backhoe for large digs, he has even instructed his heirs, that the flying field must remain.
If you don't get this in writing, I would take this with a very large grain of salt. We had a cabin on a lake. We owned and built the cabin back in the 1950's. The spot was rented by our family and there was an agreement that as long as members of our families were alive the spot was ours. Eventually all of their family in that generation died and we went to their funerals with their kids and grandkids telling us how much they cared about our family, etc. A month after my Grandpa passed away we got a letter from their family telling us that we had three months to get our cabin off their property or it would become theirs. So much for a gentleman's agreement. Once this land owner dies and his heirs take ownership prepare for anything to happen. We hired a house mover and the cabin now sits on my Dad's property unfortunately a long way from overlooking a lake.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:10 PM
  #29  
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so true to home owners doing their search first and don't count on the real estate agent. my wife and i searched homes in north Carolina. the prices for new home were great!!! my tiny house in NJ would buy a large 4 bedroom and 3 bathrooms. we were very close to buying a home in a new development when my wife saw a commercial size silo during the drive back to the office. the Realtor wanted to skip it but i made her drive to the silo.....a huge dye factory running 24/7,all the farm land in the surrounding area for sale to commercial use....dang...buy a beautiful house and they could built a stink factory a few blocks away.

this may not be losing a field story,but so many of us are moving it's worth typing. search first! buy later.

things change,we may loose our club to solar panels,the club 20 mins further north of our club closed it's membership so not to be flooded by our club if this happens. traveling an hr each way to fly would stink and ball parks are heavily used here in NJ.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:20 PM
  #30  
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Thanks for all the replies. I thought this problem was pretty much confined to the north east USA, I guess it's everywhere.

I know they used noise as the issue/argument, but it's really not.
The sound level at the distance that people live from the field is really very low, lower than a car passing by on the street.

Some people just really don't want to see the landowner enriched by our rental of the property and or us having fun.

We'll find another place, or we'll join other clubs in the area.
Two clubs have offered to take new members .
It will be a longer drive, I guess we'll just have to stay longer.

Until then, I'll just fly my small planes at the local park.

Paul
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:22 PM
  #31  
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I am a retired (actually medically disabled via two coronaries in '06) railroad engineer for the BNSF. The territory I primarily ran trains across was from Needles, Ca. to Winslow, Az. which is close to 300 miles each way.

The railroad was built in and through Flagstaff, AZ around the mid 1880's.

If you are wondering what I am getting at - the answer is the largest COMPLAINT of residents of Flagstaff,Az. to any elected official they can possibly contact is about the NOISE the railroad makes.

You'd think that since the railroad has been there since before all of the current residents were born, and certainly before every CURRENT residence was built the people renting, buying and building those residences would have known that a railroad WAS present in the city of Flagstaff, Az..

The largest complaints are concerning RR crossings at grade - where a CITY street is designed to cross an existing railroad track. The trains blow their whistle and ring their bell when approaching these crossings, morning, noon and night, 24 hours a day every day 365 days a year and have been doing so since the FRA came into existence and generated federal laws and guidelines for the RR industry.

Makes no difference. People will purchase a home next to the existing RR tracks and immediately begin to issue complaints about the NOISE the RR makes all the time.

Just as others have said it is not a unique problem. In the society we have today when people complain that complain is usually taken at face value and acted upon with little or no investigation of the true FACTS.

Usually noise above 90db is tolerated in cities between the usual hours of 08:00 a.m. and 08:00 p.m. which is why your neighbors can throw a huge loud party and although it is quite disturbing all the police can do is knock on their door and ASK them to tone it down. LOL!!

But you let a club like your's get one complaint and suddenly everybody that has NEVER seen a RC aircraft is against you.

Has your club members ever invited any of the people against you to visit the area and (just happen to have a decible meter) on where they are?

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Old 05-12-2013, 08:59 PM
  #32  
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I built my subdivison in diamond IL ,before that it was a open field. I put in a lake and jogging path plus a playground with over 200 lots for houses. After getting around 100 houses built i would get complaints about noise when building new houses. I would go to the people complaining and tell them that we made noise while building their home and you knew when you bought your new house their would be noise building on the empty lot next to yours . Some thought about it and just stoped complaining but some would call the police on my company and the police would tell them the same thing. I had one ars call me and not complain about noise but he complained about construction workers parking across the street from his new home , and he called the police also . The police asked him if he was nuts and told him that we could park anywhere on a public street and the subdivision was still owned by my company and not turned over to the city yet.lol So when it comes to noise or any thing else there are alot of reasons people complain i think mostly because they have nothing better to do. joe
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:48 PM
  #33  
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Our little world has evolved. Not too many years ago TV stations played the National Anthem at midnight and signed off. It was a really rare occasion when anything was on AFTER midnight - New Years Eve was one, but also if you wanted to communicate with anyone outside your area you wrote a letter or a post card and MAILED it via the USPS which had a stellar record for delivery or you might try (if you REALLY wanted to talk to them) a long distance phone call at about $1.00 per minute.

Almost every good paying job was a 9 to 5 with weekends off. Mom did a fabulous job of running the family and Dad worked. All was well in the world.

It didn't take long until those good jobs began going away. Then businesses began to run two and often three "shifts" and thus ran 24 hours a day. People began to be up at what was then considered odd hours and tried to sleep during the day.

Today we all operate on a 24 hour basis to one extent or another. It also seems as though we have become less friendly toward one another and less trusting. It's just the nature of the society we have become. People want what THEY WANT and do not care about anyone else.

I think that some of the younger generation really missed out on a lot of the things that past generations did, and what's sad is that there isn't a very good way to convey those sentiments and attitudes in today's NOW society.

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:22 AM
  #34  
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In my experience people complain because they have nothing better to do. The idiot that paints the lines on the soccer field tried complaining to the Police about my electric planes, and it happened the Cop that showed up knows I've been flying there for almost 2 years, pick up after myself, and sometimes pick up after others, and he knows that, told the line guy to "mind your own business, he's not bothering anyone", and it was left at that. Needless to say I still get dirty looks from the guy, I just smile and wave...
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Old 05-22-2013, 03:39 PM
  #35  
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My club had a noise complaint lodged against it in the past, and it *almost* cost the club the field it had been flying from for 20 years.

It caused our club yearly operating costs to triple, and dues went up...

We "fought" the complaint at the municipal council level - but as it turned out, we didn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Our club rented a flying spot from a sod farmer, roughly 100 acres square, 3 miles form town. Of course the farm had neighbors - a mixture of other farms and the houses on the farms, and a few stand-alone residences that had been severed from farms long ago.
The operation of our club never removed any agricultural land from active agricultural use. As the farmer went about the business of harvesting his sod every summer, we would move around the farm to a fresh area with grass. If he needed to harvest there, we'd move again. No problem, just a couple of picnic tables, a wind sock, and a lockable storage box. We always stayed to the back of the farm, as far away from the road and any neighbors as was possible.

Someone bought the house next to the sod farm We very soon afterward had a visit from the Town Bylaw Enforcement Officer, who almost shut us down on the spot.

There was a bylaw on the books that did not allow a Private Club to be operated on Agricultural Land without a permit from the Town. The "spirit" of the bylaw is to prevent Agricultural land from being removed from agricultural use, skirting a zone-change requirement.

We weren't aware of this. That was Our Fault. Period.

The Bylaw Officer attended the site to investigate the noise complaint - which was later demonstrated to be almost groundless, the noise was audible, but not legally definable as excessively loud. The guy had a single, valid, real point - he could hear the planes, and the sound annoyed him. But he went waaaaaaay further than that with the complaint - he couldn't enjoy his property, his young son - in the house - would cry when the planes were flying, his wife was afraid to go outside, etc.

The club was forced to respond to every point, and it was a daunting task. Hard to refute something in a he says/we say format.

The noise complaint was eventually just a minor part of the problem. The club did a pretty good job of demonstrating that the sound was well within the guidelines, that the club operated within a defined period during weekdays and weekends, we had good safety rules, etc. But really, what turned the day for us was that the guy who complained was a really poor witness for his own case - he exaggerated, and outright lied, lied, lied to council about a lot of things, and they caught him at it. It was actually a bit comical, if it hadn't been so serious to us... If he'd been tiny bit less strident, the club would very likely have been lost.

The club fought this for a year. We didn't have any money for a lawyers, so we did the research and the documentation for presentations ourselves. We attended many council meetings, met with councilors, had information sessions with neighbors, did a door-to-door poll of every single neighbor - every one supported the club being where it was.

Eventually, we convinced the Town to at least entertain an application for an exemption to the bylaw that would allow us to Operate our "Private Club" on this agricultural land.

The Town charges $885 to make the application. If it's turned down, they keep the cash. This was a large cash outlay for a small club...

We asked for a 3 year permit. They gave us a one year permit.

That was twelve years ago.

Every year, we have to make the application again - and make the application payment. They can shut us down at any time, without cause or recourse.

(The Town is actually contravening a law. After 3 consecutive years without further complaints (and there never was a complaint about us operating our club on Ag Land), the exemption is supposed to be made permanent, according to the Town's own Municipal Law. But No one is willing to poke that sleeping dog...)

After living in the house for 2 years, the complainant moved away. The new owner often comes out to the flight line to watch the planes.

Be careful. A single complaint, bogus or not, CAN get your club shut down. Local, and larger, government has a duty to tax-paying homeowners, and will often take the easiest way out just to get the complaint off the desk.

Our complaining neighbor paid $2873/year in property taxes. Our RC Club generated no real revenue for the town.

I'm actually surprised we're still flying there.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:01 PM
  #36  
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Old ,n slow i would have the club ask the city if the club could do anything to help the city out in anyway . Maybe help clean a city park or with parades or put on a static display at a mall or a festable in town. You could get the city's boy scouts out for a buddy box flying lesson and invite the town paper to take photos. It goes a long way if and when another complaint comes in. joe
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:04 PM
  #37  
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Those are good suggestions.

Our club was already doing those things - and more. Since 1978, we've been part of public buddy-box try-and-fly days, participation in parades, scouts, cubs, air cadets, etc.

Didn't make one bit of difference.

In our area, Bylaw will often only investigate and enforce noise bylaws on a complaint. One complaint, we learned we were in contravention of a separate, non-noise-related bylaw, that was even more dangerous to our continued use of our flying site than the noise! There was no excuse for that.

Like I say, I'm surprised we're still flying at that site. We're "lucky." Broke, but lucky.

I suspect if there is another complaint, we'll be done.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:38 PM
  #38  
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Old 'N Slow, Glad you are still able to use your field. Fortunately you were able to get help from the town officials and caught the guy in a lie.

I posted the original complaint to show that the complainer was on a first name basis with the town officials, the deck is stacked against us.

Most of the people in our club have decided to try other clubs or wait until we get a new field.

Side note......
I don't think much of the person who complained.

He could have come over to the flying site and just asked us to reduce the noise and we would have been happy to comply.
He could have just contacted us on our website, which he knew about, and we would have cut the noise.
He could of just contacted his neighbor the land owner and she would have given us the message, instead he went to his friends in the town offices and pushed to get the club shut down, without us getting a chance to defend ourselves.

He's still not done.......
Apparently someone contacted him after reading this thread and he is now a little miffed.
He's threatening to bring legal action against me for the content of this thread.

I don't respond well to threats.
So Mr Shepard, if you are reading this I would have been happy to remove your complaint if you had just asked politely.
If you want to hire an attorney and start legal action, go ahead, I'm retired and have nothing else better to do.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:48 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Old 'N Slow, Glad you are still able to use your field. Fortunately you were able to get help from the town officials and caught the guy in a lie.

I posted the original complaint to show that the complainer was on a first name basis with the town officials, the deck is stacked against us.

Most of the people in our club have decided to try other clubs or wait until we get a new field.

Side note......
I don't think much of the person who complained.

He could have come over to the flying site and just asked us to reduce the noise and we would have been happy to comply.
He could have just contacted us on our website, which he knew about, and we would have cut the noise.
He could of just contacted his neighbor the land owner and she would have given us the message, instead he went to his friends in the town offices and pushed to get the club shut down, without us getting a chance to defend ourselves.

He's still not done.......
Apparently someone contacted him after reading this thread and he is now a little miffed. He's threatening to bring legal action against me for the content of this thread.

I don't respond well to threats. So Mr Shepard, if you are reading this i would have been happy to remove your complaint if you had just asked politely.
If you want to hire an attorney and start legal action, go ahead, I'm retired and have nothing else better to do.
I have seen this happen at alot of clubs and i fly gas nitro and electrict but if it means loosing a club verses me flying a noisey gas or nitro plane i say switch the club to electrict only till you can find another flying site. It will make many unhappy but i was a president of two different clubs in my day and had to some tuff calls ,so its better to pi#% off some of the nitro and gas members than have no place for anyone to fly at all . joe
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:03 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Old 'N Slow, Glad you are still able to use your field. Fortunately you were able to get help from the town officials and caught the guy in a lie.

I posted the original complaint to show that the complainer was on a first name basis with the town officials, the deck is stacked against us.

Most of the people in our club have decided to try other clubs or wait until we get a new field.

Side note......
I don't think much of the person who complained.

He could have come over to the flying site and just asked us to reduce the noise and we would have been happy to comply.
He could have just contacted us on our website, which he knew about, and we would have cut the noise.
He could of just contacted his neighbor the land owner and she would have given us the message, instead he went to his friends in the town offices and pushed to get the club shut down, without us getting a chance to defend ourselves.

He's still not done.......
Apparently someone contacted him after reading this thread and he is now a little miffed. He's threatening to bring legal action against me for the content of this thread.

I don't respond well to threats. So Mr Shepard, if you are reading this i would have been happy to remove your complaint if you had just asked politely.
If you want to hire an attorney and start legal action, go ahead, I'm retired and have nothing else better to do.
There is nothing he can do ,facts are facts. We have one neighbor that moved by our field a couple years after we built the club field. Their new home was pretty far from our field but some of the bigger gas planes flew over them once in a while. They contacted our club and we have a rule now about never flying over or around their home, penilty of loosing your membership . We even invited the homeowners to our club cook out and they came ! Case closed everyones happy. joe
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:09 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by road king 97 View Post
There is nothing he can do ,facts are facts. We have one neighbor that moved by our field a couple years after we built the club field. Their new home was pretty far from our field but some of the bigger gas planes flew over them once in a while. They contacted our club and we have a rule now about never flying over or around their home, penilty of loosing your membership . We even invited the homeowners to our club cook out and they came ! Case closed everyones happy. joe
Yeah, flying over someone's home, especially with those larger gas models is a real no-no. Our club does not allow flying near by or over anyone, including someone retrieving a model from the field.

Right next to our flying field, the local's put in a circular walking dog track. In the middle of that dog track is a swamp with the worst mosquito haven within miles. No one uses that dog tract.

But because someone MIGHT use it, we had to change our flight paths so as to never fly over that swamp.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:11 PM
  #42  
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Hi Joe, I'm only electric and about half the club is as well. A few of the nitro guys have electrics too. If we went all electric it would not be a problem.
But I really don't think this was just about noise.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:13 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Hi Joe, I'm only electric and about half the club is as well. A few of the nitro guys have electrics too. If we went all electric it would not be a problem.
But I really don't think this was just about noise.
Same here, I was the only electric pilot when I joined the club some 7 years ago. After showing up some of the glow models with my electrics, more and more are adding electrics to their fleet. And that includes a number of guys that fly the big gasser models. I've watched those guys put one flight on their giant scale gasser, a half dozen flights on their little foamies, and maybe one more flight on their gassers before packing it in for the day.

That would be including some of those very high powered foamie jets that hit well over 100 MPH. That is a concern though, those foamie jets are anything but quiet. I measured the current pulled by one of my club members foamie jets, running on a 3 cell Lipo. It was pulling 78 AMPS!
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:34 PM
  #44  
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Hi Guys.

I am a new member of the Cape Ann RC Club. What gets me is that we are all just a great group of guys. I have been a member for only a year but I feel like I have known these guys all my life. They accepted me in and I would never consider joining another club unless these guys were members as well.

The disappointing part about this entire thing is about how some people go about getting things done. Instead of coming up to the field, where we welcome anyone with open arms, the complainer went to the town to have us shut down. A simple introduction, a handshake followed with a discussion would have yielded him the results he was after, guaranteed. IF the results he was after were in fact a reduction in noise. Something tells me there was another motive however.

On a personal note, our beloved field being shut down is a huge blow to me. I recently suffered a fall on an icy step that resulted in a 13mm L5 / S1 disc herniation. It required surgery and in turn, required I give up some of my other more physical outdoor activities (Disc golf, mtn biking, skiing to mention a few.) So model aircraft flying allowed me to get outdoors with an equally passionate group of great guys and not worry about further injuring my back. Now that has been taken away. To add insult to injury, my little boy has lost the opportunity to join me at the field where he was welcomed into the family. My boy loved nothing more than going to the field last summer to enjoy a day outdoors with Daddy and "the guys." The club members even got him a Christmas gift. Sadly, that portion of our weekend activities will have to be replaced with another activity that my back surgery recovery will allow us to do. We have been playing a lot of mini golf lately.

We had big plans for the upcoming season as well. I was organizing a field trip for some special needs students from a school where my best friend's step son attends. Was also planning several events for local scouts and other kid's groups. Hopefully these are all on hold instead of canceled now. Fingers crossed we find a new place to gather.

Finally, not that we are a large group, but we did patronize several local businesses in town. To mention a few: Scoops Ice Cream, West Newbury Pizza Co., Long Hill Farm, West Newbury Food Mart, and I also a photographer, so I used a local frame shop to frame a number of images I had as it was very convenient to drop them off while on the way to the field.

What a shame...

Doug Mahar
Newburyport, Mass.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:14 PM
  #45  
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One guy got you shut down? On what basis?

Maybe that one guy needs a visit.

Maybe some from the town board do as well.

I am at the age where I have zero tolerance for people unjustly impacting my life. People wonder why things get worse not better- it's because people stopped handling these things on their own.

Fix this guy, fix the town board, and the world will get a little better.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:19 PM
  #46  
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http://www.newburyportnews.com/local...-club-grounded

"However, a Bridge Street resident recently filed a formal complaint about noise generated on the weekends by the 5- to 6-foot planes that fly in the area of his home.
“According to the club website, there are plans to expand the runway on Long Hill Orchard, which I imagine will bring with it even more noise,” wrote Stephen Shepard in a letter to selectmen dated Dec. 10."
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:23 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
One guy got you shut down? On what basis?

Maybe that one guy needs a visit.

Maybe some from the town board do as well.

I am at the age where I have zero tolerance for people unjustly impacting my life. People wonder why things get worse not better- it's because people stopped handling these things on their own.

Fix this guy, fix the town board, and the world will get a little better.
Not sure if this is the right approach. We are a club consisting of good, easy to get along with guys. I think it is time to move on and find a new home, one that recognizes the benefits of such a club and the benefits it can bring to a community.

Doug
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:26 PM
  #48  
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And then these types of guys will push you out of there.

The longer it takes to make a stand, the worse the fight will be.

And I absolutely guarantee, the day will come where you need to fight or quit doing what you love.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:29 PM
  #49  
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https://maps.google.com/maps?q=++60+...01985&t=h&z=16

Does Steve have the proper permits for the fence? The trampoline? Maybe he's going to build a bigger deck out back and someone needs to make sure he has the proper permits and setbacks.

http://binged.it/13PVBOM

He wants scrutiny brought to the neighborhood to make sure alles in ordnung? That all papers are in order?
OBLIGE HIM.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:36 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by CNY_Dave View Post
http://www.newburyportnews.com/local...-club-grounded

"However, a Bridge Street resident recently filed a formal complaint about noise generated on the weekends by the 5- to 6-foot planes that fly in the area of his home.
“According to the club website, there are plans to expand the runway on Long Hill Orchard, which I imagine will bring with it even more noise,” wrote Stephen Shepard in a letter to selectmen dated Dec. 10."

Dave, the expansion of the runway note was on our website. A couple of years ago a person bought land directly at the end of our runway.
We immediately changed the runway orientation, so no one would fly close to the house. The new runway was shorter.

A lot of flights ended with the planes running into high grass at the end of the runway. Our "runway expansion" was to remove the tall grass and make the runway a little longer this winter.

It's amazing how an uninformed person can twist and distort things to make them sound much worse than they really are. I'm sure that he used that "runway expansion" to great effect with his friends at that town office and his other friends to form an anti airplane attitude.
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