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Suggestions for purchase

Old 03-13-2015, 04:27 PM
  #1  
r4pt0r
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Default Suggestions for purchase

Ive been gone from the RC scene for a bit over a year now, and gone from Wattflyer basically 4 years. So hello again all!

Getting back into the swing of things, I wanted to upgrade my transmitter/receiver. Ive had my old Futaba 4YF and the reciever it came with for about 7 years now I think. Its the only thing ive ever used, and I want something better.

I read the sticky, but am still apprehensive about spending this money only screw up the order anyway I dont know what parts will work with what.

So the things I am looking for:

- 5 or 6 channel transmitter, so in the future I can get other recievers with more channels and try retracts or something like that

- a small 4 channel reciever, as my goal for now is some 400 series guillows conversions and some slowstick stuff.

- my budget is not exactly unlimited, ideally less than 200$ for the both of them



and just to clarify, do most folks use the same transmitter even when you use different receivers? I understand switching crystals and all that jazz, but this 2.4ghz stuff complicates things. Also I dont know any other flyers in my area, so I am unsure what people do.


Thanks

Last edited by r4pt0r; 03-13-2015 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:33 PM
  #2  
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Under $200.00 is possible, but a little over is more probable.

Many like Spektrum.....2.4ghz and the DX6i has what your looking for as a good starter.........most RX's commonaly used are 6ch, and have come down in price quite a bit..........so, for around $200.00 the DX6i should serve your purpose.....and pretty easy to program.

The DX6i with an AR610 reciever is still currently $160.00......the DX6 with same AR610 is currently $210.00.......both are good choices....the DX6i is really the Spektrum entry level and limited to only 10 memory choices.......really depends on how serious you plan on getting into the hobby later........I've had my DX6i for over two years now, fly quads, planks and occasional heli's.......it's been all I've ever needed.....and the money I saved when first purchased allowed me to buy a couple of extra RX's and stay within the $200 budget I had then......

Last edited by pizzano; 03-13-2015 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:35 PM
  #3  
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Default Spektrum DX6 System

Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
Ive been gone from the RC scene for a bit over a year now, and gone from Wattflyer basically 4 years. So hello again all!

Getting back into the swing of things, I wanted to upgrade my transmitter/receiver. Ive had my old Futaba 4YF and the reciever it came with for about 7 years now I think. Its the only thing ive ever used, and I want something better.

I read the sticky, but am still apprehensive about spending this money only screw up the order anyway I dont know what parts will work with what.

So the things I am looking for:

- 5 or 6 channel transmitter, so in the future I can get other recievers with more channels and try retracts or something like that

- a small 4 channel reciever, as my goal for now is some 400 series guillows conversions and some slowstick stuff.

- my budget is not exactly unlimited, ideally less than 200$ for the both of them



and just to clarify, do most folks use the same transmitter even when you use different receivers? I understand switching crystals and all that jazz, but this 2.4ghz stuff complicates things. Also I dont know any other flyers in my area, so I am unsure what people do.


Thanks
Check out the Spektrum DX6 system (Not the DX6i). This goes for $209, including one receiver. A number of club members have this unit, it works very well. The club I belong to is 95% Spektrum radios. I think only one is Futaba, and perhaps one other with something else. This brand radio is quite popular, and their warranty service is at the top of the list. You can set up your model with this transmitter without even using the manual.

These new 2.4 Ghz radios are kind of like your cellphone. You can use the same transmitter to control a number of different models (Other cellphones!) For the DX6, 250 different models to be exact.

You can buy a four channel Spektrum receiver for $29.00. If you're into clone receivers, they cost as little as $10 or so. But I personally won't use them.

Spektrum also has something called "Model Match", where if the model selected in your transmitter doesn't match the model on the ground, that model won't respond. Period. (Can't take off with reversed ailerons for example)

Take a look:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/dx6-6-ch...ceiver-spm6700
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:41 PM
  #4  
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2.4GHz doesn't complicate things, it makes things simpler. If you get a transmitter with model memories (almost all 6 channel and up Tx's will have) then you just store each plane in the transmitters memory and it will connect to that plane with all that plane's individual settings saved.

As for receivers, you just need to make sure that the receiver is the same brand as the Tx (the only manufacturer that makes it more complicated is Futaba who have different non-compatible protocols in their range). No need for Crystals with 2.4GHz, the receiver 'binds' directly to your Tx so wont be subject to interference from any other Tx.


You could get a DX6 inc; receiver for about your budget, this is a brand new model Tx and has some very advanced features: http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/D...ProdId=SPM6700

One of the plus points with using Spektrum is there are a huge range of receivers available. you can also pick up 'compatible' non-Spektrum brand receivers which work great and cost buttons, like the Lemon Rx range, this is a six channel micro receiver for less than $10: http://www.lemon-rx.com/shop/index.p...product_id=122. I use lemon receivers in most of my models now, and that includes big 600 and 700 size helis, they work flawlessly.

EDIT*** looks like kyleservicetech beat me to it. I'd definitely go for the DX6 rather than the DX6i if your budget can stretch the edtra few $.. The DX6 is a lot more advanced radio and the DX6i is now discontinued.

Last edited by JetPlaneFlyer; 03-13-2015 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:49 PM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
-snip

These new 2.4 Ghz radios are kind of like your cellphone. You can use the same transmitter to control a number of different models (Other cellphones!) For the DX6, 250 different models to be exact.
How does this apply if its a model I build myself?

I was just looking for 2 sticks and maybe a few toggles, but it seems LED display screens and gizmos and programs are all the rage now huh? Guess my old hardware is a bit aged.

So the DX6 also makes things like separate elevon mixer circuits obsolete(provided you program that in)?
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:49 PM
  #6  
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Another vote for the DX6. I have the DX9, which is basically the same device, but with more channels and I LOVE it!
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Old 03-13-2015, 06:03 PM
  #7  
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+1 on the DX6. I switched from a Futaba 6EX to DX9 a couple of years ago and not looked back. I also commonly use Orange and Lemon Rx's without a problem.

You could go real cheap and buy a Turnigy or Flysky 9xR but... Support?

Bite the bullet and go Spektrum It's not like you'll be buying a new TX every year.

Hawk
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Old 03-13-2015, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
How does this apply if its a model I build myself?

I was just looking for 2 sticks and maybe a few toggles, but it seems LED display screens and gizmos and programs are all the rage now huh? Guess my old hardware is a bit aged.

So the DX6 also makes things like separate elevon mixer circuits obsolete(provided you program that in)?
I think what is trying to be conveyed here is that if you were to own 250 models and RX's, the DX6 can be programmed so each model can have it's own individual settings saved and ready to go instantly......no farting around with individual settings everytime you want to fly a different model.......the DX6i has that ability for only 10 models.

Once you've gotten used to this convience, you'll never look back....the customizing aspect is fantastic....!

And yes, the mixing aspects can all be done through the TX with or without any mechanical or seperate devices required.
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Old 03-13-2015, 06:13 PM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
I think what is trying to be conveyed here is that if you were to own 250 models and RX's, the DX6 can be programmed so each model can have it's own individual settings saved and ready to go instantly......no farting around with individual settings everytime you want to fly a different model.......the DX6i has that ability for only 10 models.

Once you've gotten used to this convience, you'll never look back....the customizing aspect is fantastic....!
so the "binding" from the sticky above refers to this then. I presume this can bind 250 different Rx's to itself? Interesting.
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Old 03-13-2015, 06:19 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
so the "binding" from the sticky above refers to this then. I presume this can bind 250 different Rx's to itself? Interesting.
Yes.........or, if you cared to, swapping Spektrum compatible RX's from one model to another as well.......however, you'd need to reprogram the previous settings you have saved to match the swapped model......a few have forgotten to do this.......with a few surprises and not so positive results......
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Old 03-13-2015, 06:46 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
I presume this can bind 250 different Rx's to itself? Interesting.
Exactly, and each one of the 250 planes in which those 250 Rx's are installed will have it's own unique setup stored such as servo directions, throw adjustment, trims, mixes etc etc.
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Old 03-13-2015, 07:21 PM
  #12  
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I vote for the Turnigy 9xr, cheap, good quality, 9 channels, and with modules you can fly rtf models under the spektrum dsm2 and dsmx (orange brand) and you can buy receivers under the same brand to install in arf models. Furthermore you can go to frsky modules and receivers which are as good if not better than spektrum.
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Old 03-13-2015, 08:06 PM
  #13  
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The only advice I can add is that if you have a club nearby, see what TX's are popular there. That way you would be able to get some help locally with programming. Newer transmitters (including the DX6) are incredibly capable compared to even a few years ago. With capability comes complexity. Having someone to help you saves hours over trying to figure things out by yourself.
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Old 03-13-2015, 08:55 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
Ive been gone from the RC scene for a bit over a year now, and gone from Wattflyer basically 4 years. So hello again all!

Getting back into the swing of things, I wanted to upgrade my transmitter/receiver. Ive had my old Futaba 4YF and the reciever it came with for about 7 years now I think. Its the only thing ive ever used, and I want something better.

I read the sticky, but am still apprehensive about spending this money only screw up the order anyway I dont know what parts will work with what.

So the things I am looking for:

- 5 or 6 channel transmitter, so in the future I can get other recievers with more channels and try retracts or something like that

- a small 4 channel reciever, as my goal for now is some 400 series guillows conversions and some slowstick stuff.

- my budget is not exactly unlimited, ideally less than 200$ for the both of them



and just to clarify, do most folks use the same transmitter even when you use different receivers? I understand switching crystals and all that jazz, but this 2.4ghz stuff complicates things. Also I dont know any other flyers in my area, so I am unsure what people do.


Thanks

RE TX and RX... ALL can still use the same servos with no bigger issue than needing to trim Futaba's alignment lug off and file the corners of the plug. This takes a few seconds per servo once you know what to do.

Just about any 2.4 ghz 4ch or better will outclass that old Futaba radio you have. Even the cheap Dynam radios included with their RTF packages.

I buy Dynam models and sometimes get the RTF in oprder to have a TX and RX available to give away when someone shows up with a 27 mhz model, since 27 mhz has notoriously short range. Adds only about $5 to the effective cost of my Dynam model when you figure up the difference between RX ready and RTF with the RTF including a LiPo and the RX ready not including the battery.
Nothing wrong with these radios... I just have something much better.

2.4 ghz has differences between brands that make you use the same brand RX as TX. There are some off-brand RX's coming out that are compatible with Spektrum and others compatible woth some of the Futaba 2.4 systems
(Futaba has at least 3 different 2.4 systems NOT COMPATIBLE WITH EACH OTHER)

So.. in essence pick your brand and the new radio will drop right in.

2.4 does have one issue that you need to be aware of. When RX voltage gets too low the RX will reboot causing a temporary loss of control. That might be 1/2 second to 30 seconds. So ensure you have an adequate
RX power supply.
72 mhz just the RX generally kept trying until after the servos didn't have power to move at all. (a lot of "glitches" might have been inadequate RX power...)
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Old 03-14-2015, 01:01 PM
  #15  
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well, I ordered the DX6, and it comes with an AR610 receiver. I also ordered the lemon 6ch micro for my guillows 400 projects.

thanks everyone for the advice. Its good to be doing RC stuff again(even if all I've done so far is drain my bank account )

Last edited by r4pt0r; 03-14-2015 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 03-14-2015, 06:50 PM
  #16  
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Default Voltage sag on Receiver?

Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
well, I ordered the DX6, and it comes with an AR610 receiver. I also ordered the lemon 6ch micro for my guillows 400 projects.

thanks everyone for the advice. Its good to be doing RC stuff again(even if all I've done so far is drain my bank account )
The thing to be aware of in these 2.4 Ghz receivers, is they respond differently than the old 72 Mhz receivers when they are subjected to a voltage sag on the 5 Volt power input.

If your receiver voltage sags down below around 3 Volts DC, that causes the receiver to "reboot". I've measured the actual rebooting time on various Spektrum receivers in my collection. That rebooting time varied between zero time to as long as 1.3 seconds.

Take a look:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2351423

If you're running a big model with high powered servos, IMHO, that is time to get away from those "AA" sized Nih battery packs. At the bare minimum, the 5 cell AA pack can suffice for models under perhaps 3 or 5 pounds or so.

Getting into 3D, or, larger higher powered models, and their large aileron/rudder/elevator surfaces, you definitely need a solid 5 Volt supply.

For electric power, most folks are running their receiver from the ESC (Electronic Speed Control) and its internal BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit) Some of the cheaper ESC's are using a linear type BEC, something that is limited to the smaller models, and no more than two cells in the LiPo pack.

For the larger glow/gasoline powered models, going to a two cell LiFe, or even better, a two cell 2300 Mah A123 battery pack will provide all the receiver/servo power your model will ever need. And, assuming quality receiver on-off switches, your model will never see a "Voltage sag".

As for those receiver on-off switches, if your switches are around 10-15 years old, I'd get rid of them, and replace them with heavy duty switches.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post30992856

For the giant scale gasser models in my club, most club members are going to a 2S2P (2 Series, 2 Parallel configuration) 2300 A123, or even a 2S4P A123 pack (That's 9200 Milliampere Hours) for the 150 cc gasser sized models.
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:38 AM
  #17  
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My advice would be to stay away from the five channel TXs. The newer 2.4 5 Channel transmitters have been so abbreviated in their functionality they make my decade old 72MHz Flash5X look like a brand new DX9 in comparison!
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Old 03-15-2015, 02:03 AM
  #18  
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Well, the low voltage cutoff on the ESC I bought should give me time to land a plane before the low power reboots the rx right? That flying with a 800mAh 2S 20C 7.4v Lipo Pack?
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Old 03-15-2015, 03:08 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
Well, the low voltage cutoff on the ESC I bought should give me time to land a plane before the low power reboots the rx right? That flying with a 800mAh 2S 20C 7.4v Lipo Pack?
Wrong .... The LVC is purely a function that acts on the MOTOR power side. When the Battery voltage reduces during use - the LVC is set by user opr as default - that when it hits a value - the ESC then cuts power to the MOTOR ... a) saving the LiPo from being drained too far, b) giving fair warning to flyer of low battery level.

The Rx reboot is because of inadequate power to Rx for various reasons - could be too high a demand by multi servos exceeding BEC's capability, failure of connection, failure of ESC's BEC etc.

Rx reboot is most times referred to with Spektrum as Spektrum had a higher cut-off value of voltage and also longer reboot time than many other brand names. For example FrSky will continue to work far below any Spektrum value, cut-off occurring not because of too high a cut-off value programmed in, but due to the Chip itself not functioning so low ... and it's reboot is virtually instantaneous. NOT the 0.5 sec's as some may suggest. FrSky will continue to act until servos no longer receive sufficient voltage for torque required.

OK - prompted by anothers comment .... a misconception is that 2.4 gives greater range than 27 and other FM / AM Tx's ...... wrong. Reputable brands such as JR ... and others on FM / AM had just as much range - in fact usually greater range than 2.4. What the problem was - FM / AM radios could not be specific to one signal source and interference would knock out the Tx to Rx link. CB radios etc. shooting down 27Mhz flyers as example.

It would seem "r4pt0r" that a read up of 2.4 and general electric flying / LiPo etc. would be a good idea ... to dispel some of the misunderstandings and terms used ... (I am not trying to be rude ... just honest ...)

Cheers
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Old 03-15-2015, 05:26 AM
  #20  
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Not taken as rude at all. all my equipment is older stuff and I've never even had 2.4ghz set, and as I said I was out all last year. My old stuff just worked lol. getting into this decade will take a bit of effort on my end of course.
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Old 03-15-2015, 05:52 AM
  #21  
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I know plenty people who still use old gear ... 27 and 35Mhz ....

In fact the 35 and 72Mhz gear is coming into a world of its own as more people change to 2.4Ghz. Means that frequencies are more available ....

There are two factors that have to be remembered different between old FM and todays 2.4 ..... antenna placement / screening and interference rejection.

1.
The old trailing antenna of the FM / AM sets was easy to sort and meant that Rx kept signal at extreme ranges and without much risk of screening / shadow effects. The old FM / AM radios could communicate OUT OF LINE OF SIGHT.
The short 2.4Ghz antenna though is subject to care in placement and orientation to maintain optimum reception. 2.4Ghz is far more subject to screening / shadow than older forms. In fact a bunch of trees or a chain-link fence between you and model can seriously affect signal strength received. It is LINE OF SIGHT carrier. Metal, CF, other leads, batterys, they all have potential to shield that antenna.

2.
Old FM / AM sets were subject to Frequency control so that only one flyer on each freq at a time. The radios did not have carrier rejection to prevent interference.
2.4Ghz on the other hand is able to lock onto one Tx and reject carrier from another radio ... meaning that we have a massive increase in number of flyers who can fly at same time without fear of signal loss. It has actually brought in another factor of restrictions in most clubs / sites of how many and what types flying at same time.

Final comment - do not be so quick to condemn your old radio ....... I have old faithful radios that I just wish had been stored better when I gave up RC years ago ... damp and corrosion took their toll and now they are shelf decoration. Shame as they are still - if working - able to be used fully legally.

Nigel
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Old 03-15-2015, 05:15 PM
  #22  
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Well after spending the morning over-thinking things, Im worried the battery ,ESC, and receiver I planned to use for my guillows project will fail me. Now I fear I pulled the trigger on my DX6 purchase too soon. How do people do fly with micro equipment on 2.4ghz using batteries so small/weak?

I apologize for not getting this more quickly, I've been running through about 2 dozen different tabs here on my browser trying to learn on my own.

I guess what I need to know is where exactly to read about this stuff?
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Old 03-15-2015, 05:35 PM
  #23  
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Default Two cell LiPo

Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
Well after spending the morning over-thinking things, Im worried the battery ,ESC, and receiver I planned to use for my guillows project will fail me. Now I fear I pulled the trigger on my DX6 purchase too soon. How do people do fly with micro equipment on 2.4ghz using batteries so small/weak?

I apologize for not getting this more quickly, I've been running through about 2 dozen different tabs here on my browser trying to learn on my own.

I guess what I need to know is where exactly to read about this stuff?
Lets see. You have a two cell LiPo battery, a Turnigy Linear voltage regulator, and a pretty small airplane.

Your ESC's BEC should power the receiver/servos in your model just fine. Note that the power pulled by your receiver/servos is a small fraction of the power pulled by that motor and prop in the front of your model. If the battery pack can spin up the motor/prop, its got enough juice to run your receiver.

IMHO, when problems begin to show up is where the modeler uses a 3 Cell or more LiPo battery, along with a linear regulator for receiver power, and a really acrobatic model airplane.

Even a three cell LiPo and a linear voltage regulator would likely work just fine with a Gentle Lady type of sailplane, where the servo loads are very low.

At any rate, your Spektrum DX6 is a very good transmitter, and will serve you for a long long time.
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Old 03-15-2015, 06:11 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by r4pt0r View Post
Well after spending the morning over-thinking things, Im worried the battery ,ESC, and receiver I planned to use for my guillows project will fail me. Now I fear I pulled the trigger on my DX6 purchase too soon. How do people do fly with micro equipment on 2.4ghz using batteries so small/weak?

I apologize for not getting this more quickly, I've been running through about 2 dozen different tabs here on my browser trying to learn on my own.

I guess what I need to know is where exactly to read about this stuff?
If your Guillow project is around 30" span, the Rx and battery you selected will be more then adequate. The 20A esc is almost overkill since you will likely use far less power to fly anyway! The DX6 will serve you a long time and you will have no regrets about it. To answer your question about Micro/Indoor flyers, many uses one cell Lipo of less than 150 mA and the Spektrum AR-6410 brick receiver(perfect to use in serie-500, 16" span models).
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Old 03-15-2015, 07:24 PM
  #25  
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R4pt0r, everyone's got you spooked about the brownout thing. Yes, it can happen, but just a little common sense when building your model and it's a non-issue. It's usually with planes that are overburdened with too many servos, my favorite example being a T-28 foamie some place put out a few years back and was famous for crashing due to people 'just losing control'. It had your standard 2 aileron servos, elevator, rudder, then add 2 more for flaps, 3 electric retract servos, I think 3 more servos for gear doors, 4 (Yes 4) cowl flap servos, and just for icing on top, LED's. 16 servos! And all running off probably a linear BEC in the ESC, rather than a stand-alone switching BEC. You should have no problems with the planes you mentioned in your first post.

Here's my favorite video explaining BEC's, in case you get into the bigger stuff. Don't worry, he explains it in plain english, not in engineer-speak!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXP4__GjSo[/media]
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