Humblehacker

Hello,
I am trying to set up a multirotor in a QuadX configuration using components listed at the bottom of this post. To calibrate my ESCs, I usually use the handy "Motors" utility in Cleanflight which allows you to calibrate all ESCs simultaneously without having to manually go through each one and listen for the secret tones via the receiver. This has worked for me in the past, but recently I replaced my old transmitter with a new Turnigy 9xR-Pro and had to bind it to my receiver etc... other than that nothing has changed from my original setup wherein everything seemed to be working fine.
However, when I check the throttle minimums now it appears that one of my motors (Motor 1) will only engage at a range of 1182, while the others engage around 1040. Obviously this would've made my quad flip on takeoff if I didnt check first. I tried calibrating again in Cleanflight and nothing changed, so I went back to the old manual method.
The tones on the first ESC went through the startup sequence then 3 beeps (for 3S battery) but then it just emits regular short beeps in the same pattern, regardless of the stick position on my TX.
Any idea of whats going on?

My setup-
FC= Flip32+
ESC= 4x 18AMP HURC
Motors=4x EMAX 1300kv Outrunners (EF2805)
RX= OrangeRX R615x (CPPM Mode)
TX= Turnigy 9xr-Pro (erSKY9x firmware)
Battery= DBYPower 2200mah 30C
Extras= UBLOX Neo-6M GPS, Bluetooth, OLED Screen, Pitch Servo
Firmware= Cleanflight

P.S- Is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to just reflash the HURC ESCs with a more quadrotor optimized firmware like BLHeli or SimonK?

Flubber

When my ESCs beep like that I have the plug backwards, in the wrong channel or the throttle trim is not high or low enough to start the calibration.
Those are easy things to check and the radio would be the difference in the new set up.

HeadsUpTSS

Hello Humblehacker,

The HURC (orange label) ESCs are unique in that the throttle range must be set manually (e.g., via transmitter) upon first installation, regardless of application. The throttle range cannot be set correctly using the the quad calibration software (although it can be tweaked and fine tuned once the initial manual calibration has been completed).

However, from your email I gather that you have already attempted to manually calibrate the throttle range and were successful on all but one, and that one you are getting no response other than the continual beeping. That type of signal generally means that there is no signal between the receiver and the ESC. As Flubber indicated, that could be caused by a wrong polarity connection. It may also be caused by a bad pin in the channel slot of the receiver, or a bad signal wire in the ESC itself.

I suggest troubleshooting the ESC directly through the receiver (isolate your flight control board, etc.); first make sure the ESC is connected in the correct polarity. If so, try the ESC on a different channel, to make sure it is not a channel slot issue; if that is determined not to be the case, check the ESC cable (especially the signal wire, that it is not loose at either the JR connector or the board). If you find that problem lies with a defect in the ESC, please contact us directly at through the contact information on our website* and we will arrange a replacement for you.

Personally, the HURC ESCs would not be my first choice for use in a quad; while they are perfectly good units for use in fixed wing aircraft, they are not ideal for multi-rotor configurations. We do offer a series Emax ESCs which are much better optimized for that application.

Humblehacker

I gather that you have already attempted to manually calibrate the throttle range and were successful on all but one

As far as I can remember, I only ever calibrated using the Cleanflight GUI as I never saw any indication that it would be any different than the manual method before now.
All that said, they seemed to work fine with my old transmitter, before I moved up to a 9XR-Pro. So when I tried to calibrate using the same GUI method again, I was surprised to find one of my motors triggering at a much higher minimum throttle range than the others.
Now that I know I have to manually calibrate, I'm just completely lost! I've checked and double checked the polarity, and even tried with a different transmitter just in case there was a problem with the pin connections. Eventually I discovered that my Channel mix was wrong in the model setting I was using to connect to the TX. When that didn't seem to change anything, I made sure to turn the throttle trim all the way down.
THIS seemed to make a difference in that the tone patterns finally started making different sounds. The problems was that none of the sounds in any resembled the "three short beeps followed by two beeps" pattern for calibration mode nor did they resemble the patterns for programming mode... Even more confusing is the fact that the RX seemed to be making music of its own, and I had no idea if this was supposed to happen or not... Nevertheless, I thought I saw light at the end of the tunnel when after attempting the calibration sequence I would reboot with the throttle off and the motors would spin with the throttle. However, the ESCs were still making the "short beep every second" sound even while the motors were running? I shrugged this off assuming it just needed to start up with all the motors connected to the flight controller, but when I plugged in the battery after first connecting to Cleanflight the ESCs started beeping continuously like a smoke detector!!!
I'm at my wits end here..

Personally, the HURC ESCs would not be my first choice for use in a quad; while they are perfectly good units for use in fixed wing aircraft, they are not ideal for multi-rotor configurations. We do offer a series Emax ESCs which are much better optimized for that application.

I wouldn't expect you to remember, but I got those ESCs on your recommendation almost exactly a year ago Well, to be fair I asked if the same setup I was using for a fixed wing (aka EMax motors and 18amp esc) would work on a multirotor and you replied that the motors would work well, without mentioning anything about ESCs. I nonetheless assumed you would have said so if the ESCs wouldnt be a good fit so I went ahead and bought them... Just thought I would point that out...

In any case, the fact that you guys are accessible for these conversations in the first place still puts you leagues ahead of anyone else in the business! Furthermore, the Emax motors are starting to look more and more appealing in that they seem to be supported in BLHeli (and SimonK of course). If I can scrape up the cash, I might snatch some up. Quick question though... The EMax motors only come in 12a, 20a etc... and the specs for the C2805 motors say 18amps is the max they will take. Will 12amps ESCs be sufficient for a mid-sized quad with a small camera gimbal?

HeadsUpTSS

I wouldn't expect you to remember, but I got those ESCs on your recommendation almost exactly a year ago Well, to be fair I asked if the same setup I was using for a fixed wing (aka EMax motors and 18amp esc) would work on a multirotor and you replied that the motors would work well, without mentioning anything about ESCs. I nonetheless assumed you would have said so if the ESCs wouldnt be a good fit so I went ahead and bought them... Just thought I would point that out...

To be fair, a lot can change in a year's time, including the products that we carry and our knowledge of how they work in various applications. At this time one year ago, the HURC ESCs were what we had to offer and seemed the best choice; in fact they will work, but not as well as what we have now. That applies to a lot of aircraft types; over time, we find that other power systems works better than ones that we had originally used. If I had sufficient means by which to go back and update every single power system recommendation inquiry that I have ever answered regarding any aircraft model, I would gladly do so, but I would likely never get anything else done.

You might consider using the Emax SimonK ESCs that we sell, and perhaps also the Emax MT motors, as those components are definitely optimized for use in multi-rotor aircraft. As far as the max current thresholds for both the motors and ESC, most of that depends on the props used and thus the current drawn; you have not indicated the props that you are using with the CF2805 1300kv motors, but in our own testing of those motors we were able to achieve 20 ounces thrust at only 12 amps drawn. If you were to use Emax MT motors capable of providing roughly the same amount of punch, such as the MT2216 1500kv, you could do so with a smaller prop size and still draw less than the 18 amps at full throttle.

As to the addition of the camera gimbal, you might consider simply disabling the linear BECs of all four ESCs and using an external UBEC to power your receiver and all attached components; that will insure against brownouts caused by an overloaded linear ESC BEC.

We are always glad to be of service, and it is very easy to contact us directly using any of the means below:

Email [email protected] for general inquiries.

Email [email protected] for product support.

Email [email protected] for status of an order that you have placed.

We can also be reached by phone Monday - Friday, 10am - 4pm, at 352-625-3556.

Humblehacker

Any idea whats going on with the motors when they make the fast beeping sound when the battery is connected to the Flight Controller?

Its hard to find answers anywhere else without a datasheet for the electronics. Are these similar to the old Hobby Wing Pentiums? Before they went to SiLabs?

Flubber

I am going to go out on a limb but your problem reminds me of something similar I experienced with a multiwii setup. The solution was to change the min throttle setting in the firmware to match the transmitter's trim setting. The multiwii gui would get the numbers for the rc controls.

/**************************** Motor minthrottle *******************************/
/* Set the minimum throttle command sent to the ESC (Electronic Speed Controller)
This is the minimum value that allow motors to run at a idle speed */
//#define MINTHROTTLE 1300 // for Turnigy Plush ESCs 10A
//#define MINTHROTTLE 1120 // for Super Simple ESCs 10A
//#define MINTHROTTLE 1064 // special ESC (simonk)
//#define MINTHROTTLE 1050 // for brushed ESCs like ladybird
#define MINTHROTTLE 1220 // (*) (**)

/**************************** Motor maxthrottle *******************************/
/* this is the maximum value for the ESCs at full power, this value can be increased up to 2000 */
#define MAXTHROTTLE 2000

/**************************** Mincommand *******************************/
/* this is the value for the ESCs when they are not armed
in some cases, this value must be lowered down to 900 for some specific ESCs, otherwise they failed to initiate */
#define MINCOMMAND 1000

These are the settings that need to be modified to match your transmitter. Again this is how it works with multiwii. I have not used cleanflight but these setting must be there somewhere. The mincommand 1000 value arms the esc's and the minthrottle is where they start spinning. Of course the flight controller has to be armed. your rapid beeping sounds like they are not seeing a low throttle setting that will arm them.
I hope this helps

Flubber

Here is a link to some similar setting difficulties.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Multicopter...ging_behavior/

Humblehacker

Thank you @Flubber! I haven't tested it out yet but the information you provided certainly makes a lot of sense! In fact, when I first got the motors/ESC combo, my original intent was to use them with MultiWii and I might have even set them up that way the first time I used them...
I had a feeling it had more to do with the Arming/TX procedure then the manual calibration. Especially since the motors worked fine with a different setup (Its actually possible I might've first calibrated the motors to work with either a NanoWii, or a Naze32 Acro before finally settling on the Flip32+)...

I'll let you know how it pans out...

Thanks Again!

HeadsUpTSS

The HURC ESCs are quite similar to the Hobby Wing Pentiums. They are a simple aircraft speed control. We have no datasheet for the ESCs other than the instruction sheet packaged with each ESC that we ship out:
Instruction Sheet for HURC 18 Amp ESC (pdf)

It is possible that the rapid beeping that you are hearing is the tone you would get if the throttle were above neutral at the time the battery is connected; the ESC will not arm unless the transmitter is in neutral. That would certainly be the case if the minthrottle settings for the flight controller were not set low enough.

At this point in time, it sounds like this is a matter of the settings of either your transmitter and/or your flight controller, rather than an abnormality with the ESC itself.

Flubber

I should have said what Jesse is saying. The ESC just does what it is told and somehow your setup is not giving them the correct signals to arm. For me this issue has been such a part of building multirotors that I am more surprised when the esc's work the first time than if they don't. Your esc's are just waiting for the right commands and when they get the right commands they will be fine.

Humblehacker

That would be good news indeed! Will update once I get the chance to test.

In that case, is there any reason why I couldn't make them better suited for multirotors using this custom firmware? Or is it missing something in the hardware like an external oscillator?

Flubber

New firmware will make them better for multirotors. To begin this process remove the heat shrink on one and see what is there or find a posting where someone has done the process with that exact ESC. Not for the faint hearted as it is possible to brick your esc's. If you have the time to learn what and how to do it then take a look. If you are unsure then just fly them. If you are like me this will not be your only multirotor.

Humblehacker

Believe it or not I'm much more at ease with reflashing AVR bootloaders than I am with the basics of RC flight From the looks of it, the ESC appears to have the same pinouts as the 18a RCTimers-
which would make them compatible with the TGY firmware I linked to earlier.

All in all, its becoming obvious that I have motors/escs/props for five fixed wing models rather than 1 of each as intended... The present setup would be sufficient for testing purposes (until I can afford new motors and ESCs) but for the fact that two of my 4 8x3.8 APC props are facing the wrong direction. So I obviously need to order a proper set of MultiRotor props.
Per your earlier suggestion about not overloading the motors, which size props would you recommend?

Flubber

Seems like the prop data for the 1300kv CF2805 shows it needs a bigger prop if you are using 3 cells. Your listing shows the motor as EF2805 can you confirm what motor and cell count you are using.

flashing the esc is easy if you are comfortable with AVR programming

Humblehacker

Yes battery is DBYPower 2200mah 30C (3 cell) and motors are EMax CF2805