motor temps? - Page 2 - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight

General Electric Discussions Talk about topics related to e-powered RC flying

motor temps?

Old 03-24-2015, 01:37 PM
  #26  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

You could get a 1000kv motor as well, bringing the HS down to scale flight, unless you plan to head into more 3d stuff later.
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 02:12 PM
  #27  
Flysohigh
electrified
Thread Starter
 
Flysohigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 257
Default

How low on the kv can i safely go to compensate for the extra fuselage weight and battery weight load? I need to buy a motor today
Flysohigh is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 02:28 PM
  #28  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

1000kv would bring down the HS. May need to play around with pitch curves. The result will be slower cyclic and rudder control. 1900-2000 HS would be doable. Of course this is if you want to stick with only scale flight. Any 3d would be difficult, but a nice docile flier is the result. Longer flights is achievable, due to lower HS and better blade efficiency where one blade isn't slapping into the air of the retreating blade. Wider blades, asymmetrical, would help too. Essentially the goal is to make a "trainer plane" heli, with lots of lift without the need for speed. The blades are literally wings, just instead of a prop and forward motion pushing air over the surface of the wings, the wings themselves rotate to create lift. This means you are best off with a large "wing" with good lift properties. Look around at what blades you can get too. The blades now should be okay, but I honestly can't say how she will fly without having the heli in my hands, and testing it. It's all about experimentation.
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 02:42 PM
  #29  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

I'm asking around on helifreak for ya.
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 02:59 PM
  #30  
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
Default

Originally Posted by Flysohigh View Post
How low on the kv can i safely go to compensate for the extra fuselage weight and battery weight load? I need to buy a motor today
Depends on what you intend to do with the Trex...........if scale flying is all you "ever" intend to do, 1000Kv and 5s lipo 2200mAh will work.

The Scorpion suggested previously will run just fine on a 5s, 2200mAh as well, and give you more flexibility later for advanced flying (and probably last longer also). Just like with planks, it's always better to have a little more KV rather than a baseline min........running a 1300Kv motor at lower head speeds and tamer curves will not be a problem.......just not as efficient as higher rev's the higher Kv motors thrive at.

No matter what you switch to, adjusting both the throttle and pitch curves will be required after a new motor install.....I also recommend the 13t pinion, which will also require curve adjustments........it will give you more head speed without putting more strain on the motor and ESC.

Another recommendation, most of us "experienced" guys seldom switch out motors without also replacing the ESC. It takes the possible problems with an older ESC, out of the equation....regardless if you go with a newer Align or Scorpion motor. 75amp is suggested.

As far as "wider" blades go.......stock size works just fine. Wider will put more stress on the power consumption due to the greater air surface they will be pushing......not really a logical recommendation, especially if the intent is to keep the motor and ESC temps down.............it's like the same principal as having the pitch curves set to high, which cause more drag on the prop surface......ya, you'll get more sustained lift, but put the motor under more stress.........increased head speed with proper pitch curves is still the best option for motor efficientcy and longer power distribution............you'll just have to step-up your thumb response and get over the fear of a higher rev'ing motor.........It's all part of the learning curve.

Note:

It's also a fact that prolonged hovering actually expends more energy and power consumption than just flying around scale. And will heat up any motor more than actual flying does...........!
pizzano is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 03:12 PM
  #31  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
Depends on what you intend to do with the Trex...........if scale flying is all you "ever" intend to do, 1000Kv and 5s lipo 2200mAh will work.

The Scorpion suggested previously will run just fine on a 5s, 2200mAh as well, and give you more flexibility later for advanced flying (and probably last longer also). Just like with planks, it's always better to have a little more KV rather than a baseline min........running a 1300Kv motor at lower head speeds and tamer curves will not be a problem.......just not as efficient as higher rev's the higher Kv motors thrive at.

No matter what you switch to, adjusting both the throttle and pitch curves will be required after a new motor install.....I also recommend the 13t pinion, which will also require curve adjustments........it will give you more head speed without putting more strain on the motor and ESC.

Another recommendation, most of us "experienced" guys seldom switch out motors without also replacing the ESC. It takes the possible problems with an older ESC, out of the equation....regardless if you go with a newer Align or Scorpion motor. 75amp is suggested.

As far as "wider" blades go.......stock size works just fine. Wider will put more stress on the power consumption due to the greater air surface they will be pushing......not really a logical recommendation, especially if the intent is to keep the motor and ESC temps down.......
Wider blades would cause more stress, but a lower HS is the idea here...plus any motor that isn't the one currently being used will likely not heat up. There is an issue with a little extra kv in helis vs planes, as you can't simply just lower throttle, unless you have active freewheeling in an esc, done by current passing through fets, rather than passive with capacitors that heat up substantially during freewheeling (you're esc will heat up, not the motor). If you buy an active freewheeling esc...well then you are free to put essentially any kv motor and you can lower the throttle to 50%. It depends which costs more in the end I feel.
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 03:28 PM
  #32  
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
Default

Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
Wider blades would cause more stress, but a lower HS is the idea here...plus any motor that isn't the one currently being used will likely not heat up. There is an issue with a little extra kv in helis vs planes, as you can't simply just lower throttle, unless you have active freewheeling in an esc, done by current passing through fets, rather than passive with capacitors that heat up substantially during freewheeling (you're esc will heat up, not the motor). If you buy an active freewheeling esc...well then you are free to put essentially any kv motor and you can lower the throttle to 50%. It depends which costs more in the end I feel.
I care not to debate the "freewheeling" (whatever that means) aspects of the ESC......not really the focus of this discussion.

It's common knowledge amongst" experienced" heli guys that higher head speeds and proper pitch curves are more efficient and provide better overall control of the craft (keeping the tail trimmed) than slower head speeds.........it's a really a common misconception with inexperienced pilots, until they actually spend some time around properly set-up machines and actually fly one that has been properly adjusted with the proper gearing and motor/esc combination........It's certainly a bit of a trial and error process.......but the Trexx 500e has been around so long now, that there is no need to re-invent the wheel. There are hundreds of threads posted by hundreds of "experienced" heli pilots all over the forums that will confirm what I have just recommended.......
pizzano is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 03:38 PM
  #33  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
I care not to debate the "freewheeling" (whatever that means) aspects of the ESC......not really the focus of this discussion.

It's common knowledge amongst" experienced" heli guys that higher head speeds and proper pitch curves are more efficient and provide better overall control of the craft (keeping the tail trimmed) than slower head speeds.........it's a really a common misconception with inexperienced pilots, until they actually spend some time around properly set-up machines and actually fly one that has been properly adjusted with the proper gearing and motor/esc combination........It's certainly a bit of a trial and error process.......but the Trexx 500e has been around so long now, that there is no need to re-invent the wheel. There are hundreds of threads posted by hundreds of "experienced" heli pilots all over the forums that will confirm what I have just recommended.......
Not fond of this condescending tone...but anyways, higher hs is indeed more efficient to a point, but scale flight is the concept here, of which a lower hs allows for the feel off. The info I propose is not simply out of nowhere, but from the "experienced" pilots in discussion of scale flight of the 500e, and that 1000kv is a good kv to look at, and that wider blades are what some chose. To allow for greater lift. Yes there is more stress, but the requirement for higher pitch with a lower hs is also more stress. There is no way about it that there are comprimises.
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 04:02 PM
  #34  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=346499

Just one example
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 04:19 PM
  #35  
Flysohigh
electrified
Thread Starter
 
Flysohigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 257
Default

Looks like that low kv compensates life for the 5 blade head he has. I have regular 430mm blades not align and are heavy. I i choose align 3d black and white blades will they help any?
Flysohigh is offline  
Old 03-24-2015, 04:26 PM
  #36  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

Yes, 5 blade helps...but it isn't that you can't go lower kV with a 2 blade setup. 5 blade, like a 3 or 4 blade prop, does not increase lift proportionately to the increase in number of blades. More blades does give more "pop". 3 blade heli setups are used in 3d setups, such as the SAB Urukay, a heli intended for F3C flight (the ballet style of 3d flight). Lightly blades are definitely something that would help, the less rotational mass the better in my opinion.

Oh you also have to note that the setups in the link I posted are 5s, you are running 6s, so your HS will still be higher than 5s.

Last edited by thepiper92; 03-24-2015 at 04:46 PM.
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-26-2015, 12:59 PM
  #37  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

Maybe you've already bought stuff, but here: http://www.helifreak.com/showthread....41#post6404841

To get the low, and lower than I expected, 1700rpm, I calculated around a 10t pinion. Hope the thread helps.
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-26-2015, 01:31 PM
  #38  
Flysohigh
electrified
Thread Starter
 
Flysohigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 257
Default

Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
Maybe you've already bought stuff, but here: http://www.helifreak.com/showthread....41#post6404841

To get the low, and lower than I expected, 1700rpm, I calculated around a 10t pinion. Hope the thread helps.
Thank you sir i got i think the ideal motor hk3226 1400kv can withstand high temps and plenty of power. Also got the bearing oil kit for the scorpion motors...hopefully by tuesday ill get it in
Flysohigh is offline  
Old 03-26-2015, 02:22 PM
  #39  
thepiper92
Warbird Fanatic
 
thepiper92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,513
Default

It's also a good idea to have a few different pinions, so that you can test flight time and performance.
thepiper92 is offline  
Old 03-26-2015, 02:34 PM
  #40  
Flysohigh
electrified
Thread Starter
 
Flysohigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 257
Default

I have a 13t also but seems like the 12t will maintain the lower headspeed i like
Flysohigh is offline  
Old 03-26-2015, 03:10 PM
  #41  
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
Default

Originally Posted by Flysohigh View Post
Thank you sir i got i think the ideal motor hk3226 1400kv can withstand high temps and plenty of power. Also got the bearing oil kit for the scorpion motors...hopefully by tuesday ill get it in
Good choice.......you won't be disappointed.

The 12t pinion will fine as well, you'll be able to set your pitch and throttle curves conservative. Once you get the "thumbs and confidence" positive, you'll find the 13t pinion to be a very good combination for both scale and acrobatic flying........you can worry about 3D set-ups once you have mastered the 13t pinion authority you'll experience with the 1400K motor.
pizzano is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.07806 seconds with 12 queries