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CA Glue - 3DHS ARF assembly

Old 12-26-2010, 04:54 PM
  #1  
DanWard
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Default CA Glue - 3DHS ARF assembly

Still very much a beginner in many aspecs. I need help because things are looking nasty.

I'm bulding (assemblng is probably a better word) a 3DHS 57" 330SC and the CA glue is driving me crazy.

Take for example simply gluing in the rear wing. The instructions tell you not to remove any covering. Install the rear wing, measure several times to make sure it is centered as well as parrallel and true to the front wing. All is kewl and I'm ready to glue.

The instructions say to use thin CA on top and bottom (ahhh another trip to the LHS because all I had was gap filling thick). This freaking thin CA stuff....arrg. I put a nice bead along where wing meets fusaluge. The instructions seem to indicate with would wick into the joint.

Well it is so thin it wicked in and ran everywhere and not only where I wanted it. I swear 2 drops could paint a battle ship.

And even where it didn't run, even where it remained a nice smooth even bead of glue it seems to have discolored the covering which really has me frustrated.

For example you have a nice even small bead of glue and once dry a white milky haze appears on both sides of the glue joint. If I was a custom painter I would describe this haze as having a fade effect as it slowly fades away the further away you get from the joint. But this is a freaking 1/2" fade and it ain't pretty. It is as if fumes from the glue (more concentrated the closer you get to where glue was applied) caused a haze on the covering.

I don't seem to have nearly as much trouble with thicker gap filling CA but even then I am getting some discoloration around the glue joint.

I know I'm old and CA is the new way but I never made this kind of mess with epoxy and with epoxy alchole could be used to clean and mess.

What am I doing wrong? Is there anyway of removing this white haze? Ya know I've seen a lot of others with similar builds of precovered planes and I have never noticed this haze on theirs so it must be me. Obviously there is something I do not know...but need to know.

The good thing is appearance won't affect the way it flies just like lots of chrome on a Harley doesn't mean it will run long enough to get you home.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:52 PM
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DanWard
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Question Help with CA glue please

I have not had any responses so I modified the title of my post so people know I'm asking for help please.
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:04 PM
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I'm guess'in its a balsa plane, you could'a used epoxy if you wanted to,
CA takes a bit-o-practice to get it right .like not tilt'in the plane so it runs back but toward the part your CA'in, your right,, a little does a lot, they usually tell you to cut the covering back so the CA can "wick" into the balsa, Epoxys easyer and more controllable but watch the poundage and use spare'ally ,, bubsteve
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Old 12-27-2010, 01:01 AM
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Sir Crash-A-Lot
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Originally Posted by DanWard View Post
Take for example simply gluing in the rear wing. The instructions tell you not to remove any covering. Install the rear wing, measure several times to make sure it is centered as well as parrallel and true to the front wing. All is kewl and I'm ready to glue.
You sure it says NOT to remove the covering? Every ARF I have built says to remove the covering where it is going to be glued so the thin CA can wick into the balsa. The thin CA will wick so you won't get a bead and the white effect I always get where it contacts the covering especially when I use kicker.

Mike
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:07 PM
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AEAJR
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I have no idea what plane you are working on.

Normally for a tail mount I would clear away some covering so the CA makes a wood to wood connection. CA on top of covering will run all over the place and then the joint is only as strong as the bond of the covering to the wood.

In most cases you can use medium, gap fill or thick CA where thin is suggested. they just take longer to set.

Be sure to use PLENTY of ventilation or you may start to experience Flu like symptoms from breathing the vapors. CA is nasty stuff if you don't have lots of ventilation. I have two vent fans on my bench and it still bothers me.
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:02 AM
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tobydogs
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Stu to the rescue.......i built the 3dhs aj slick just as the instructions said to. the covering doesn't need to be removed to get a good grip on there arfs. so not to worry about strength and i wouldn't use epoxy ,but on all my kit builds i strip away covering to join the tail feathers as everyone else mentioned.

when ca'ing in hings i get the white smudges and acetone cleans it up great along with any drips.

very important is to try a small spot on the underside of the planes covering to check for color fastness!!!

acetone is nail polish remover ,be sure to find the purest form and not the watered down version for nail. you can get the good stuff at the local hardware store.

when cleaning with acetone it may look like the whits fog is spreading but with a dry towel[rag] it will polish off to a shine.

hope this helps and have as much fun flying the 3dhs as i do the slick.
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:15 AM
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Stu has you fixed.

I too was from the "old school" and didn't believe Ben on the "don't remove covering". Well gang, after cartwheeling a plane with just the CA method (no wood to wood bond). Guess what - it works. I have used it for stabs (vertical and horizontal) and I assure you it is plenty strong.

This works well for "pinch" applications. I would not do this on a plane where top and bottom of the stab was not supported in the fuse. Same with the fin, it must be a tight fit with support, obviously a butt joint won't cut it. Also the pinch needs to remain tight so the thin CA wicks properly.

In fact I strained this very plane through trees when my brownout occurred. It was really super to have my Aurora 9 yelling at me (alarm) with an airborne low voltage event. The plane was a total loss. Guess what joint did not give way, that is right both the vertical and horizontal stabilizers were firmly attached at the joint, even though both surfaces were significantly damaged.

It works - I promise!

In fact you are likely causing yourself a much weakened tail surface by cutting the covering off, in turn cutting some of the underlying wood and creating a stress riser. A nice point for failure.

Dan - may I ask a question? How much flight experience do you have?

I ask because you call the horizontal stab a "rear wing". While I certainly knew what you were talking about, it just makes me wonder if this is one of your first planes. It is NOT in any way a trainer.

CA is messy stuff and you can paint a ship with two drops. But there are a couple of things that help. Small thin tubes that attach to the bottle top, make it much easier to apply tiny amounts.

Here is a good example - they help a great deal!

Mike
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Old 01-02-2011, 12:51 AM
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gotta say mike,those lil " ca tips" are the greatest thing since ca does need to be applied sparingly when kit building .soaking balsa in ca isn't necessary but i still love to go over all areas with an extra drop[or3] for peace of mind...lol. those tip can be snipped a little at a time so they last longer than just one use.

when i cut away covering to join tail sections I'll use a sharpest razor and cut as little wood as possible and this is often when using epoxy to set pcs so alignment can be adjusted as it cures.. one thing ca dose is repair the slit line left by the razors cut. ca usually is stronger than the surrounding balsa and the wood not glue breaks away first before the adhered wood separates. proof is when gluing ones finger to sheeting a wing and wood tears away from the sheet not the finger which requires finger tip sanding at the end of the day...lol....
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:02 AM
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But the question remains - why do it? Why cut off the covering? The CA only joint to covering works just fine. Saves time and effort.

Again - tested and true. We all have to work a bit to get that "old school" out of us.

It is like that first time when someone said - "Hey try this new battery, it is a LiPo". I remember that day.

Mike
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:12 AM
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so true so true
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:05 PM
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Default My thanks to all

I sure thank everyone for their responses and I'll try and address a couple of questions that were presented in the responses.

1st I started flying as a pup. Way back, senior falcon and my 1st radio was a Heathkit where I built the radio as well as the plane. Thise was in my early teen years and now I'm 52.

Then there was some time away during teenage years and college. Then in late 80s and up through 91 or maybe 92 I flew a lot. I got real heavy into the hobby and even ended up being volunteered to serve as president of a local AMA club for a few years which is when I met my wife and stepson. Stepson didn't take to hobbies but loved gokarts. minibikes, motorcycles etc so I put flying on hold since about 92 or 93 while I raised my kid and did the family thing.

I never had a fleet of planes. I had a Hots II that did everything I needed from it. That was back before 3D flying. But it did knife edge spins, knife edge figure eights, etc. It preformed well. I actuall still have it but it is glow and electric is much cleaner and quieter.

Jump to present day. About a year ago I was having troubles finishing a bathroom remodel when my wife bought me a Park Flyer's Daredevil 3D but I couldn't play until bathroom was finished. Flying came back like riding a bike. As of yet I still have not had any mishaps. And for example I use a half court basketball court and can spot my landings and keep it in the confines of the court. I do OK. But no I'm no ace.

The habit is back. Shortly after getting the Daredevil I built a Multiplex Acromaster and rejoined the same clude I was president of those oh so many years ago. Again no misphaps have occured with the Acromaster.

Am I a 3D pilot? No, but I do well at sport flying (what used to be called arobatics I guess)

I attended the 3DHS event in Austin back in October and the 330SC came home with me. A friend let me fly his 57" 330SC while I was there and ... well...I'm hooked. Ben described the 57" 330SC as one that could be setup for sport flying on low rates and 3D on high rates which would allow me to progress into 3D flying while still having a great sport plane.

Other than the foam Acromaster that needed no covering I have never built a precovered plane. I always built balsa and then either silkspan and dope or monokote. My planes always looked nice and...well...not knowing the ins and outs of CA things are not as nice looking as they could be so I ask questions and learn.

I know it is an elevator but it is also a rear wing (I guess it is age or lack of exposure to others).

I'm trying to build this thing right. Instructions specifically stated not to remove covering from elevator because CA bonds well to the covering they used and removing the covering would weaken the wing. This seemed odd so I called 3DHS and they confirmed. I just wasn't quite prepaired for how little CA is required when it can't soak into the balsa.

My Acromater is all HobbyKing except for the Spektrum radio and while it all works well I'm trying to step up a bit on components for this build. I can't afford Lamborgini so I purchased a Scorpion S-3032-12 which while it was a bit more affordable that Hacker seems (based on specs so far) to be better quality that the Turnigy motor I have in my Acromaster. I also purchased a Castle Creations ICE75 and seperate Castle Creations BEC. Not that I've had problems with the Hobby King Plush that is in my Acromaster...well from what I could read the Castle Creations is a step up.

Again I thank everyone for the input. I didn't know about those little drop tubes that go on a think CA bottle and I now have a few. I didn't know Acetone (or debonder) would clean things up and I do now. So I am learning from all of you.

As for my skills? I trust they will improve to meet the demands of the plane especially if I follow Ben's advise to set it up for sport flying on low rates and go at 3D as step at a time when on high rates. I also have a simulator where I can use the red button to rebuild the plane to practice 3D stuff with before I mess up the real thing.

My hope is I'm going about this all in a logical progression.

Thanks again
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:25 PM
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Sounds good Dan - Ben still likes plenty of throw even in sport mode on his planes. So don't be timid with expo.

I too am a sport pilot and the 330 ROCKs! An excellent airplane. You will love it, it flies so much better than the Hots you will be amazed.

Mike
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:43 PM
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sounds like the way to go dan,you picked a great plane to fly sport as it will go where you point it. sounds like the slick 3dhs makes and i to love the way this bird handles on low rates since i don't fly 3d yet.

lots of knowlegable folks here to help each other in this awsome hobby we all enjoy so much.
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