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Foam Park Flyer Daredevil 3D Motor upgrade question?

Old 06-06-2010, 04:34 PM
  #1  
DanWard
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Question Foam Park Flyer Daredevil 3D Motor upgrade question?

I'm very new so perhaps I should still be posting the the "Beginner" section but being this is a foam plane...well if I've done wrong please let me know.

I'm wondering if there is any experience I can draw from. I've search for the Daredevil 3D post and I see some folks like it, some don't, I myself am having a lot of fun with it and have quite a bit of flying time on it. And for it being my 1st plane in some 17+ years...it suits me well.

My question concerns the motor and gear box. The gear box is getting very noisy, prop shaft is getting quite a bit of slop in what I presume are bearings, everything still spins free but it isn't as quiet as when it was new and the slop in the shaft...well I'm concerned the angle of the dangle may be changing as I fly. The slop really is more than I would think would be good.

I know parkeflyer would be all to gad to sell me replacement parts. They really have supported the sale well.

But then I'm just not big on the whole gear box thing. A direct drive outrunner seems like it might be a nice upgrade.

So the question is am I showing my lack of experience? Would it be doable? Has anyone done similar? Or should I keep life simple and just by original equipment replacement parts?

Thanks in advance for any and all help?
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:43 PM
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Default New Motor?

Hello Dan,
Your concern about the gear drive is pretty normal. Most offset (the type you have) gearboxes have a pinion gear that's made of much harder material than the large gear. So the teeth wear down after time and need replacement. It's a fact of life with offset gearing.
But I doubt that the motor shaft is part of the problem, unless it's bent from a crash. Brushless motors have a very long lifespan, often outlasting airplanes.
The motor could be replaced with another inrunner, still requiring another geardrive. A year from now that gearbox would be be wearing out. And you'd have to find one that was a fit to the existing motor mount.
And, yes, there are outrunners that will swing a similar-sized prop at the same RPM with similar batteries.
But that raises the problem of mounting an outrunner where an inrunner previously was. They are entirely different in mounting, unless both use the "Stick" mount, typically from GWS or others that use the same system.
For $6.00 plus shipping, you can fix the main problem, the geardrive slop;
http://www.parkflyers.com/Daredevil_...nit_p/9109.htm
Unless there's a problem with the motor itself, this will make the system run like new.
That would be my suggestion.
Good Luck!
Ron
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:49 PM
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Default Clarification - Foam Park Flyer Daredevil 3D Motor upgrade question?

Thanks for the repy and I see I wasn't very clear about the slop. The slop isn't gear slop that I speak of however that progbably is where the noise comes from. And I have yet to crash or even land hard.

The slop I speak of is felt in the prop shaft. If you hold the end of the prop shaft you can wiggle it side to side or up and down 1/8" with very little effort so much so that I'd think this would change the thrust line during flight.

But like you said, a cheap gearbox and I'd be back in business.
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Old 06-06-2010, 06:02 PM
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Default Motor Shaft Slop?

Hello Dan,
Sorry if I misunderstood the problem. Yes, if the motor shaft has that much play, it's time for a new motor.
The problem of mounting an outrunner where an inrunner was, still exists. It depends on the type of motor mount in the plane.
But you can still replace the inrunner itself, if that's easier.
There are likely motors that are a drop-in fit. It would be easier if you could post a photo of the motor and measure the diameter of the "can" (the outside casing, or largest diameter) and the overall length of the motor. Another important measurement is the distance between the mounting bolts. This is (typically) a 2-bolt mounting, metric bolts into the front plate of the motor.
With that information we should be able to hook you up with a similar (but better quality) motor.
Or, if you still want to try an outrunner, post a photo of the motor mount and maybe we can figure out an adaptor.
From the model specs it sounds like a "400-450" size motor.
http://www.parkflyers.com/Daredevil_...ane_p/9002.htm
Ron
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:17 AM
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Default Daredevil 3D-Please help with gear drive

Ok, before I mess something up.

Originally I started this thread asking about converting an inrunner with gear drive to an outrunner without gear drive on my Daredevil 3D. I still wonder if it is doable but then I ask myself why.

Then with some help from folks here and digging into it...well I'm back with pictures, information, and more questions.

Here is the deal. Most of the time as I throttle up motor begins to turn right away, just off zero. But I have noticed occassions where I get to half throttle before it starts turning. I've never experienced it in flight, only on the ground, because while in flight the wind keeps the prop turning. But I'm not smoking crack, it happens. 1st time it happened I thought it was just the old man or a loose nut at the controls. But now it getting more frequent.

At the same time that this all began I have noticed the drive has gotten very noisey (grinding horibble noise, sounds like unhappy gears). I'm figuring noise and symptom could be related since it all began about the same time thus my thought to convert to outrunner without gear drive. I really enjoy this plane and would hate to loose it because I was not paying attention to the symptoms.

I'm thinking gears are binding when they stop in that bad place which then means to start spinning again I have to add more throttle than if they stop in a good place in the gears.

Last time I was here folks indicated some pictures would be helpful so I have tried to attach picture of motor and speed controller.

Turns out the motor is an Art Tech Modle B2025-15L 11.1 and the ESC is labeled as a ParkFlyer 18amp EESCB118A003. But some searching on the internet makes me think everything is ArtTech. Pictures of ArtTech ESC on the web look very symilar just that changed the label to say Park Flyer. No plugs in any of the wires, everything is hard soldered.

I removed the snap ring that hold main shaft with spur gear on it so that I could remove it and run just the motor. Motor is nice and quite.

I was surprised to find the main shaft that I removed runs on real deal ball bears. I was anticipating finding worn out oilite bushings. But bearings feel good. I think the slop I feel in the prop shaft is the outside diameter of the bearings fits rather loose in the housing. Back in my slot car days we would solder axle bearinging into the rear axle tube but can't do that here because the bearing holder block is aluminum.

Anyway I put it back together and without the shroud on the plane it is real loud. Again back to my slot car days. Back when I raced and used metal pinion and plastic spur gears there were times that as the spur gear became worn it was impossible to get a quiet gear mesh. Back then I'd run the gear train at slow speed and use a cigarret lighter to warm the spur gear, not to the melting point, but as it got soft viola I'd get a quiet mesh. I'm tempted to try it.

Ive inspected both gears and just don't see any major signs of wear.

I know I can replace the gear drive for a wopping $6.00 plus shipping. And the pinion doesn't look that worn. But I tell myself there is not garantee that a new one would be any quieter as there is no adjustment for gear mesh.

So anyone got any ideas? Of course today since my plane is down the wind stops, go figure
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Old 06-10-2010, 11:34 AM
  #6  
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You have a lot more patience than I do. I'd replace it with an out runner and be done with it.

Azarr
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:15 PM
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Question I agree but how?

I agree, It would probably be a better, longer lasting, solution if I converted to an outrunner and be done with the gear drive/inrunner stuff. But if you read my thread that is how I began. I don't know how to do it.

The foam firewall of the foam fuselage has stiff plastice on both sided. The current motor mount screws through the one on the ouside and threads into the one on the inside and makes a sandwich so to speak.

If I bought an outrunner I'd have to find one with equal or more power and about the same weight. I could use nylon standoff to move it forward so prop runs at about the right place. Screw would go through the outrunner mount, through the standoffs, and then sandwich the firewall.

But to get all that figured out, have it balance, and actually work. Well I'm like a major league beginner.

So I fight a gear drive, I guess?

Is there a way to determine the size for the proper outrunner that would work with 18amp ESC and be the right weight?
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:25 PM
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I just got my Daredevil assembled and flown earlier this week. To be safe, I always take apart pre-assembled airplanes and reassemble making sure that everything checks out ok, adding Loctite where needed and making any modifications I deem necessary prior to maidening.

When I inspected the gearbox and prop shaft I found minimal play in all directions. During flight, it is a noisy gearbox.

It has a 3mm prop shaft, which can bend easily. The prop was way out of balance and was a PITA to balance. If your prop is severely out of balance or your prop shaft is bent, this may have caused excess wear on your bearings. I doubt it, but it's possible.

Remove the C clip at the back of the shaft and check to see if there is a washer installed. There should also be a washer in front of the gearbox, between the gear and the bearing.

If your shaft is worn, unfortunately a replacement prop shaft cannot be purchased from Parkflyers.com, only an entire gearbox/motor mount.

If your bearings are worn, a hobby shop with RC car parts will probably have ball bearings that will work.

Worst case, a new gearbox is $5.99.

If you want to replace your motor with an outrunner, the firewall has numerous mounting holes for the stick motor mount and you can move it down to a lower set of mounting holes to align the outrunner's prop shaft with the opening in your cowl.

Regards,

Anthony
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Old 06-13-2010, 05:03 PM
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is this plane worth it? i own the pro deluxe cessna and love it but i am afraid the daredevil isn't as durable!
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Old 06-13-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by coinworker View Post
is this plane worth it? i own the pro deluxe cessna and love it but i am afraid the daredevil isn't as durable!
The Daredevil is made to fly, not crash and it is a sweet flyer.

I am not impressed with the weak prop shaft. I had a perfectly good landing this morning in rough grass, main gear touched down gently, cut the throttle to zero, pulled full up elevator and it nosed over anyway resulting in a bent prop shaft. Where we fly noseovers are inevitable regardless of wheel diameter, due to the terrain. It's either land in the rough grass or land on a really rough gravel road. Which would you rather land on?

I need to convert this gearbox to a 4mm shaft or replace the powertrain entirely. I do not want to deal with bent shafts everytime I fly so if a conversion to a stronger prop shaft is too much trouble an outrunner is going in.

Compared to my SAPAC Pitts with a 2409-18 outrunner and an EP 1060 prop, I like the Pitts better.

Regards,

Anthony
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:39 PM
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A flying buddy caught this photo of my Daredevil the other day. I like the plane but the prop shaft is susceptible to bending if you breath on it. I land in a rough grass field or on a rough gravel road once I get familiar with a new plane. On Sunday, I landed perfectly in the grass: the main wheels touched down, I cut throttle to zero and pulled full up elevator. The Daredevil nosed over as expected in the rough grass, resulting in a bent shaft. The prop did not strike the ground, the plane flipped slowly and gently after the wheels got caught in the grass. This is a very weak 3mm shaft. I must convert the gearbox to a larger diameter, stronger shaft or replace the entire assembly. Aside from the shaft that's as strong as a paper clip, there's not much to dislike about this plane, it's a lot of fun.

Here's the Pic.

Regards,

Anthony

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Old 06-16-2010, 12:08 AM
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Talking Foam Park Flyer Daredevil 3D Motor upgrade - I'm doing it!

Well to the post that asked if this plane was worth it. My answer would be yes. I have had a blast with it, good enjoyment value for the dollar. But...and remeber I'm new to the hoby... I've had issues

Why they use gear drive is beyond me. I can't imagine an outrunner would cost that much more. The gear drive is very noisy. I see one post indicating the shaft bends easy. Mine never ran straight and true to begin with but for a $6.00 gearbox...hey it has real deal bearings and not bushings .

I'm also experiencing a problem that I have yet to solve. I've reproduced it on the bench without the gear installed, so I was only running the motor. There are times that the motor will not run. All other channels move but motor will not spin at any throttle setting. Sometimes returning to zero speed and trying again corrects the issue. But then again I found one throttle trim setting for which the motor will never run no matter what you do with the throttle stick. I'd like to think it is not the radio since all other channels work. I sort of doubt this type of symptom would be motor. I suspect speed controller.

So in an effort to fix it all I've decided to replace the motor with an outrunner. I've purchased the following 2409-18T motor as recommended by headsuprc.com.

http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...ushless/Detail

I found the research on this moter stuff to be most confusing. HK had a better price but the specs varied and I could not (no matter how much I read) understand. The folks at headsuprc, while email based, ... well like Parkflyer they have good customer service and they are in Florida or something like that.

I'm waiting on HK to get in a shipment of Plush ESCs since I have one of their programming cards. I think I'll buy a 25 amp unit. I hope they hurry and get some in

When I'm done I will be able to change the esc and motor and if the problem continues it must be the radio.

Did I say I found the motor research to be confusing? Just how long will it take before this stuff makes sense? for example I understand KV but I don't understand how one motor 2409-18T with "Bell" in the description had a 1200 KV rating and one with the same 2409-18T number but without "Bell" in the description had an 1000 KV rating. Recommended prop sizes varied considerably through several different offerings and again they were all 2409-18T.

So the long and short of it is I hope I've made the right decision. It appears headsuprc has done their testing and documented it will. I must admit I could find very little data on the stock motor so I'm blind on a baseline. My only hope is that when I'm done I'll experience similar or better performace. Just being rid of the gear noise will be an improvement but if I've screwed up and purchased less that stock power...oh boy...but I will have gained experience
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:27 AM
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Hello Danward,

I used the same motor on my SAPAC Pitts

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=191

The following, are my Watts Up Meter readings from the Pitts with a GWS EP1060 2 Blade Prop

Fully Charged Lipo 12.63 Volts (Turnigy 3S 1800 Mah 30C-40C)
Peak Watts = 225.2
Peak Amps = 18.31

Once the battery dropped a volt, it also averaged around 14.59 Amps and around 165 Watts


I do not have a motor thrust stand. Therefore, I cannot check the thrust of the 3 Blade Prop.

To quote Heads Up RC regarding the (2409-18T) and a GWS prop, "The GWS EP1060 prop produces 26 ounces of thrust at 14 amps with a pitch speed of 43 mph."


The Pitts flies great with the 2409-18t and a GWS EP 1060 prop and it's a larger plane than the Daredevil. It should be a good power system on the DD.

As for my Daredevil, I'm going to see if I have some larger ball bearings and a suitable prop shaft to convert the gearbox to a larger, harder shaft. The purpose of the gearbox is to allow the motor to spin a large prop while keeping current draw to a minimum. The large prop is necessary for 3D flying.

Regards,

Anthony
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:52 PM
  #14  
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I'm having the same problem with my geared Yak-54. I have learned to HATE inrunners and gearboxes altogether. I found a guy on here that ordered some turnigy outrunner for his and he loves it. I did the same. I'm sort of new to the electric side of things as well, and it seems that if you slap on a new outrunner, you're good to go no matter what.

Also, the first few times my shaft was bent, I'd pop out the C-clip and throw the shaft in a vice. Letting the metal get red hot from a propane torch, I'd take just some common pliers and straighten the shaft easily. The threads don't get messed up, but if they do, just pull out the tap and die kit, or just force the nut on there.

In accordance with what you said, Dan, electric motor specs are very optimistic and downright confusing. I guess a lot of researching and hours reading can boil down to some of the best guesswork ever done.
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Old 06-24-2010, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 11dwhite View Post
I'm having the same problem with my geared Yak-54. I have learned to HATE inrunners and gearboxes altogether. I found a guy on here that ordered some turnigy outrunner for his and he loves it. I did the same. I'm sort of new to the electric side of things as well, and it seems that if you slap on a new outrunner, you're good to go no matter what.

Also, the first few times my shaft was bent, I'd pop out the C-clip and throw the shaft in a vice. Letting the metal get red hot from a propane torch, I'd take just some common pliers and straighten the shaft easily. The threads don't get messed up, but if they do, just pull out the tap and die kit, or just force the nut on there.
Hello 11dwight,

Like you, I usually straighten most shafts. The Daredevil's shaft is either a 2mm or 3mm and is not worth straightening. The metal is so soft; it bent during a soft landing in tall grass from a nose over.

I am currently looking at using a shaft and ball bearings from a HZ Super Cub gearbox. I need to modify the gearbox so the larger ball bearings fit. I then need to modify the Daredevil's spur gear to fit the SC shaft and add a setscrew. It's going to take a bit of work but at least I won't be aggravated after each day of flying.

If for some unforeseen reason I am unable to retrofit the larger shaft, I will install an outrunner. An outrunner will usually require a new ESC because the timing of an outrunner differs from that of an inrunner and I don't think I can modify the motor timing on the stock parkflyers.com ESC.

Regards,
Anthony
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:51 PM
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hmm. I'd never thought that the ESC would be different for inrunner and outrunners. haha unfortunately, while waiting for my new outrunner to come in, last night I straightened the shaft yet again. I had cut off the motor wires in waiting for my new motor, so I just took a few connectors and put them together. All the wires were back like they were and at any throttle level the motor kind of went one way, changed direction, and acted like it was bipolar or something. I was playing with the wires that were a little too close together and with the battery still connected, I accidentally touched the two wires together and the ESC shorted out and started burning. haha so I ordered a new ESC, so I shouldn't have any problems there. One question though, I've probably seen this several times, but for a noob, how do you tell how many ampres your motor is running?
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:46 PM
  #17  
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I'm real new as well but I purchased a watt meter. It shows me watts, peak watts, voltage, min voltage, amps, peak amps, etc. Pretty kewl!
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 11dwhite View Post
One question though, I've probably seen this several times, but for a noob, how do you tell how many ampres your motor is running?
A Watts Up Meter is available on eBay for around $36.00 and is well worth it. I ordered mine from the seller Bluetoothbrush who has been very reliable.

Astro Flight also makes a very good Watt Meter.

Regards,

Anthony
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:08 PM
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Haha thanks on the eBay rec. That's a whole other animal to learn about hahaha.

Thanks, guys!
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:21 AM
  #20  
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Default The Transplant Was a Success!

I successfully modified the Daredevil’s gearbox, replacing the stock prop shaft with a modified shaft from a Hobbyzone Super Cub. We have been flying from a rough field, which is covered in cut but coarse hay. There is a gravel road to land on but it has a way of really chewing up a nice looking airplane. Every time I land in the grass, no matter how soft a landing, the hay catches the wheels and causes a nose over. Even the softest nose over bends the prop shaft.

A quick look at the first photo reveals that we owners of the Daredevil really got the shaft with the gearbox that came installed in our planes. The photo is a comparison of the tiny 2mm stock shaft next to my new prop shaft.

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I thought it was worth the trouble to perform this modification because geared Inrunners offer the following advantages:
  • The gearbox allows the use of larger propellers, which increases thrust.
  • Inrunners are more efficient versus outrunners
  • Use of a gearbox reduces the amps drawn
The entire modification cost under $4.00. The Super Cub replacement shaft is only a couple of bucks and a trip to the hardware store was another $2.00.

Here’s what’s needed – You will have to figure out the sizes:
  1. One - Super Cub Replacement Prop Shaft (Complete with Ball Bearings)
  2. Your Daredevil gearbox intact. (You will reuse the gearbox housing, C-Clip and the spur gear)
  3. One - Allen Head Set Screw
  4. Two – Spring Washers sometimes called wave springs
  5. One – RC Wheel Collar
Steps:

A. Drill larger recesses into gearbox housing for the Super Cub Ball Bearings.


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B. Prepare new prop shaft:
  1. Use a small Dremel cut off wheel to cut a new notch for the retaining C-Clip
  2. See Update Below File two flats in the shaft for set screws; one for the spur gear and a second for the wheel collar.
  3. Use dremel to cut the remainder of the shaft, cuttimg off the Super Cub Gear
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C. Prepare Spur Gear:
  1. Carefully remove spur gear from Daredevil prop shaft. It breaks easily so put some metal tubing or spacers on the shaft in front of the gear and tighten the nut down, which will slowly push the spur gear off of the spline. Work slowly.
  2. See Update BelowWith the spur gear removed, drill a hole for a setscrew. Heat the screw a little with a flame and it will thread right into the gear. Do not overheat.
  3. Drill a larger hole in the spur gear so it fits snugly over the new prop shaft. A prop reamer is a good idea or a drill press to make sure the hole is true.
D. Assembly:
  1. Install spur gear and snug down setscrew. See Update Below
  2. Install Ball bearings into gear housing
  3. Install a spring washer between spur gear and ball bearing
  4. Add a little machine oil to front bearing and insert prop shaft.
  5. Install a spring washer on the rear of the shaft
  6. Install retaining C-Clip Add a drop of machine oil.
  7. Install wheel collar as a secondary prop shaft safety retainer.
  8. Reinstall motor and prop.
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Sorry for the lousy photos.

A quick thank you to my friend Bob A.K.A. Maxheadspeed for donating his spare Super Cub parts for this project.

Regards,

Anthony


UPDATE / Design Improvement

After reaming the spur gear to accept a Super Cub's 4mm prop shaft, the setscrew I installed on the spur gear had very little material to thread into. It was not adequately locking the spur gear to the flat I had ground on the shaft.

Remedy:

I disassembled the gearbox. I then slid a 4mm I.D. wheel collar with the setscrew removed over the shaft to act as a drill centering guide and I drilled a 1/16" hole through the prop shaft. With the spur gear temporarily in place I drilled a 1/16" hole through the spur gear. At ACE Hardware I purchased a stainless steel 1/16" cotter pin. The cotter pin has replaced the setscrew and locks the spur gear to the prop shaft eliminating any chance of slippage.

Sorry no photos.


Regards,

Anthony

Last edited by All American; 07-21-2010 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:53 AM
  #21  
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Update / Design Improvement Posted above in post # 20
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:17 AM
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DanWard
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I've been watching this develop as I look for my own outrunner solution. If my efforts fail I may follow your lead.

Did I get this right? Your drilled a 1/16" (.0625) through a 4mm (.157) shaft?

If prefectly centered that would leave .04725" of prop shaft on both sides of the 1/16" hole?

Did I get that right?

Is the shaft still strong? I was wondering if in the slot car world there would have been the right size spur gear with setscrew?
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:44 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by DanWard View Post
I've been watching this develop as I look for my own outrunner solution. If my efforts fail I may follow your lead.

Did I get this right? Your drilled a 1/16" (.0625) through a 4mm (.157) shaft?

If prefectly centered that would leave .04725" of prop shaft on both sides of the 1/16" hole?

Did I get that right?

Is the shaft still strong? I was wondering if in the slot car world there would have been the right size spur gear with setscrew?

Hello Danward,

I can see your concern about the strength of the shaft but don't forget there is a snug fitting cotter pin in the hole, which adds strength. Also, even with a 1/16" hole drilled through the shaft there is still 2.4125mm of material remaining, which is .4125mm larger than the stock shaft. After drilling the hole I couldn't bend the 4mm shaft by hand. I can easily bend the Dasredevil's stock 2mm shaft by hand. This leads me to believe the Super Cub's 4mm shaft is not only larger but made of harder steel. My intent was not to retrofit a shaft that would survive a nose in crash but to use a shaft that can withstand typical landings at less than perfect flying fields.

Unless I was landing on pavement, the stock 2mm shaft bent on every flight. I've been flying RC on and off for 30 years and I know a perfect landing from a lousy landing. During a good landing, a nose over caused by unkept grass should not bend a prop shaft. I have outrunners and ESC's that would have been a 5 minute swap. Inrunners have the advantage of being more efficient, versus outrunners and with a gearbox can swing large props at a lower current draw. This is why I went through the process of converting the gearbox.

Regards,

Anthony

Note: A new replacement gearbox from parkflyers.com is $5.99 + $7.99 UPS shipping. This entire modification cost less than $5.00
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:09 AM
  #24  
DanWard
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Default Finally Got a dependable Daredevil 3D motor retrofit

I'm in the process of loosing another job so stress has been high. I've never been fired, jobs just dry up, "Dan you are the best but the only work we have for you requires you to live in India for 15 weeks, followed by 9 weeks in Oklahoma, followed by 8 weeks in New Jersey, followed by..." Geeeze I lived like that from the time I got out of college until I was 32. At 32 I was no were near what I wanted from life, a wife, a family, etc. My career was doing great but I don't think I'm on the earth to live to work. I work to live and a wife and family is important. Now I'm 52 and I'll do a lot of things before I return to that life style and jepardise what really matters. Anyway I'm off topic... sorry about that but I'm frustrated!!!

So back on topic. What a releif it can be to come home, step out to the park behind my house, and fly for a while. I have been flying the ______ out of my Parkflyer Daredevil 3D. I finally came up with a combination that is in my mind most excellent.

After having a lot of maintenance issues with gear drive, while they may be efficient, in my experience they can be a pain.

Then the first outrunner I tried had a piece of soft noodle for a motor shaft.

But finally I have a combination that is working very well, runs quiet and cool, and the plane files most excellent. I'm having a blast with it and a 3S1P 1300mA pack is giving me a solid 8 to 10 minute flight time.

First I visited headsup RC and purchased a Power Up 450 Sport Outrunner and GWS 1060 prop. The fine folks at BMK Designs.net sold me an excellent ESC and programming card. I had to build a plywood motor mount and I ended up shortening the nose just a bit to help with balance. But I was able to correct a big issue by placing the esc in front of the firewall in the breeze instead of inside the fusalage where Parkflyer had the original speed controller.

I have all the vertical I need. Maybe vertical isn't unlimited but the plane gets mall for these old eyes in a hurry.

Anyway all is well! So if you get a Daredevil 3D and the gear box gets noisey, ratchety, and sloppy...well I love the way my motor retrofit turned out.

Thanks to Jeff and Sircrashalot!!!
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