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Foam safe CA - are there secrets?

Old 01-06-2011, 05:23 PM
  #51  
PBaiyre
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and DBacon your horror stories bout hazardous ca, just making me favour expoxy all teh more...

*My first plane!! yes!! okay time to ffllllyyyyy!!! alrite, instruction manual, yadda yadda. Aha! Directions. Alrite so this goes here, that goes there **screwdriver**

Later On...

Alllrriittteeee, looking niccee.. Now to test it. Wait a second! Silly me, I forgot to reinforce the wing, awww well Ill do it now. Brand new Cyanoacrylate glue! Wow works like a charm just liek Dan and D said! So now I let it *cough* dry for a while then when it's done i can *cough* go flying. **sits down** Thats funny the air smells strange. **sniff sniff** *cough cough* Woo, I think I need some *cough* fresh *cough* air! *cough*

Woo!, thats much better. Right, time to get the plane. Gotta hold my breath. Ggogogo!!! *run* Aggh running out of air gotta...breath!!! *inhale deeply* Air!
*grabs plane runs out to field* Strange, the cough dissapeared... ZOOM! there it goes!! woohoo!! thats amazing!! barrel roll! Immelman!! stall recovery!! woohoooooo!! *cough* Whoa that one sounded *cough cough cough cough* Uh oh. *holds stomach and retches, all the while the plane is slowly nosing down..* Ugh disgusting, time to call it a day, gotta bring her in for a.. WHAT **** Oh **** **** ****!!!!! *Car brakes* EEEECCHHHH *CRASH! SPLEEEEE! POOF!!!!*

*PBayre just stands there* Oh my gosh! *He looks at the tube, then looks at the road... ******* Ca!! *cough*

The End


P.s.- I know you guyz must think im stupid but I was bored thats y i typed this... *cough* hehehehe
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:37 PM
  #52  
Glacier Girl
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And another tip if you are gluing foam. Especially foam with a backer, like some Deprons.
If you glue two of the shiny sides together all you are doing is gluing the backing together, not the actual foam. Makes for a really weak joint.

The fix, take a T Pin, needle, ice pick even, and poke a lot of small holes through the backing this allows your glue to get past the backing and into the foam for a good bite.

This also works well on just regular old foam too, especially if you use a hot wire cutter. The cutter puts a finish on the surface, closing up the cells and making them smooth instead of porous. Glue them together and all you are bonding is the surface, again a poor bond. Poke it and the glue can get past that and into the meat of the foam.

And a BIG TIP: Use a good quality respirator(not a dust mask) if you are gluing. Allergies to glue take time to build up, and once had they are a bugger to deal with.
Being from an automotive paint back round, I always have my paint respirator near by.

You can pick up a good 3M one at most auto parts stores, they have replaceable canisters on them, so as they age and start to get weak, you just install new ones.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:48 PM
  #53  
PBaiyre
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C what I mean, I dont even know what u guyz r talking bout "backers" and whatnot, Jeez I reely think it would be way ezzier to use epoxer
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:34 PM
  #54  
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Please don't be discouraged, none of us knew these things once, but now we want to share what we have learned.
"Backers" would be the thin covering some foam has.
"Kicker" is the spray you (optionally) spray on CA glue to speed it up.
And you can (rarely) develop an allergy to epoxy too, luckily I haven't.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:00 PM
  #55  
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I see....

EPOXY 4EVA!!!
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:22 PM
  #56  
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If you mix epoxy with micro balloons for weight reduction, remember it kicks off faster...
But do whatever you can to keep the epoxy light when building a small foamie.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:35 PM
  #57  
PBaiyre
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Soz could u explain in simpler terms?
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:37 PM
  #58  
PBaiyre
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oh and on my other thread "Foam Safe Ca vs. Epoxy!!!" Im hearing lots bout how gorilla glew is pretty kewleyo so idk if thats a good alternative
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:48 PM
  #59  
Bill G
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Originally Posted by PBaiyre View Post
I see....

EPOXY 4EVA!!!
That's what I say. Not only have I had foam save CAs still eat foam a bit, but they just don't work well with foam, as they are too brittle. I have no patience however, so I've found 5 minute epoxy is a good compromise, especially considering that it's more like 4 or even 3 minute.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:51 PM
  #60  
TDisaster
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Sure, epoxy and hot glue work well, but at the cost of weight.

Everything's a trade off. If you want strength that isn't brittle, you're going to pay the price in weight. But on a light foamy (think F3P), you aren't going to want to waste everything you've done to save weight by using hot glue or epoxy.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:00 PM
  #61  
bigmac3737
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So on a UM scale plane, replacing wings and h stab, is regular CA
and baking soda with water ok? Pretty thin foam, anyone have experience
repairing any parkzone um scale?
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:51 PM
  #62  
Turner
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You can use regular CA on the Z-foam used on many Horizon Hobby fuse and thick foam wings but the thin foam used on most of the V-stab and H-stab along with the thin foam wings on many of the UM's like the Ember and P-51 require foam safe CA.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:56 PM
  #63  
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Gorilla glue has a problem with UV. If you cover it with something opaque its fine. If sunlight can get to it the glue will eventually turn into dust.
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Old 08-18-2016, 11:27 PM
  #64  
rtentler
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Default How to use foam safe ca like a pro

Foam safe ca is the best thing you can use to repair impact resistant foam planes. That said there are a few caviots you need to understand. If you follow these instructions your repairs will almost be undetectable. Hot glue doesnt even come close and is messy and will look like garbage.
I have lost control likages in the air and smashed planes in to 10 pieces and had them back in the air flying in 30 minutes.
Note: The first thing to understand is that foam safe ca will heat up and melt foam if you apply too much kicker to it. Never spray kicker directly on foam treated with ca.
Lets say you cracked your wing in half.
1. Apply a small amount of foam safe ca to one of the pieces, inside the joint where you would like do the repair. Go easy a little bit will spread alot.
2. Now carefully press the 2 peices together, they should fit perfectly together unless you didnt pick up all the pieces. seperate and rejoin a couple times to work the glue into all the nooks and crannies. There is no rush. You want to make sure the etire surface of both peices (inside the joint that is) are covered and have as little ca as needed.
3. Each time you press the pieces together some of the eccess glue will force its way out of the joint and pool at the original surface of the wing. You should use a rag to wipe up the excess glue as you work it out of the joint. This will a. Reduce the amount of excess ca for a stronger bond. B. Form a small line of glue on the suface of the wing along the seam. Try not to get any more than you have to on the surface.
4 apply a small amount of zip kicker to a clean rag. (I often use paper towels but if you are not quick you will have small pieces of lint in the seam) now quickly run the rag with kicker down the seam. I.e. The surface of the wing. Flip it over pull it together tightly and repeat.
Note when you are wiping the second side to seal it the amount of preassure you use to hold the joint together will determine exactly what angle the wing will reattach at.
5. Optional: you now have a near perfect repair asside from any compression of the foam durring the crash, however you may want to wait a day to allow the ca inside the joint to set.
I guerantee you there will be nothing brittle about the repair, and nothing else metioned will come close.
The big makes that cause weak bonds are
A too much ca in the joint. -- ecessive ca will be brittle and cause a seperation of the 2 pieces.
B. Applying kicker inside the joint. This will cause the glue to set before you can fit the pieces together perfectly and cause a seperation of the peices inside the joint.
C spraying kicker on the foam. this will melt and screwup the joint.

I had a t-28 trojan that ive crashed multiple times, and while ive broken it into several pieces, several times none of my ca joints have ever seperated. Using my method you will have a joint stronger than the original foam. And if done carefully the repair will hardly be noticeable.

Hot glue will be too thick to get the peices snuged back together properly, and most other glues and bonders are also too thick and tacky not to wind up with them all over the surface of the wing. The thinness of the ca makes it very easy to work in the seams and since it is not tacky at all when wiped with a rag you get a very clean seam that you simply cant get with any other compounds.

Last edited by rtentler; 08-18-2016 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:56 AM
  #65  
solentlife
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OK - kicker. Why did it get developed ?

CA (cyanoacrylate) works by a combo of two factors. 1 by moisture to 'kick it of', 2 exclusion of air in a joint.

CA will not set up in a joint that does not close up exact. Any pockets or gaps cause it to partially set only and joint is extremely weak or non-existent.

Kicker was developed to get around this.

If does the job - but beware - the strength of the joint can be compromised by kicker creating a higher brittle factor than normal CA.

For wing joints etc. - I recc'd 5 min Epoxy as a better glue. You have time to position and move to exact, it fills dungs, dents and gaps .... it sets reasonably quick.
Keep the CA for those less stressed smaller jobs.

Nigel
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Old 08-20-2016, 02:16 AM
  #66  
road king 97
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Originally Posted by Slowjohn View Post
Thanks bowtie hi,
The "foam safe CA" is so high in price I think. It's also a 140 mile round trip to the nearest LHS so I just order most everything I need. I think I'll give it a try on a foam trainer I'm about to build for the daughter who wants to try flying one herself. She's done okay on the simulator so I'll build her a simple trainer and see.

Thanks again,
SJ
I built 5 slowlys for my grandkds to hit each other in the air ,lol http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post22098736 keep watching it 20 clowns will jump out any minute Dollar tree foam and light gorilla glue . joe
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:50 AM
  #67  
Crashalott
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For all my builds with #Tree Foam Board i use BSI Foam Cure, it gives me time
to get everything set up straight but doesn't have to be taped or held for very
long. I have done a lot of repairs also with this glue.
The price is a little cheaper than the other Foam Safe glue also, just $4.95 for
a 4oz bottle at HURC
I also use Epoxy for some of my wing spars etc.
Crash
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:10 PM
  #68  
solentlife
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Originally Posted by road king 97 View Post
I built 5 slowlys for my grandkds to hit each other in the air ,lol http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post22098736 keep watching it 20 clowns will jump out any minute Dollar tree foam and light gorilla glue . joe
The link in the RCG thread is old and no longer works for the plans ... any link where plans are now ?

I too fancy a quiet 'fun' RET jobbie ...

Nigel

Edit : Found the V2 plan on another site ...
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Old 08-27-2016, 12:03 AM
  #69  
Crashalott
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
The link in the RCG thread is old and no longer works for the plans ... any link where plans are now ?

I too fancy a quiet 'fun' RET jobbie ...

Nigel

Edit : Found the V2 plan on another site ...
Heya Nigel, let us know how the build turns out.
Crash
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Old 08-27-2016, 02:05 AM
  #70  
road king 97
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
The link in the RCG thread is old and no longer works for the plans ... any link where plans are now ?

I too fancy a quiet 'fun' RET jobbie ...

Nigel

Edit : Found the V2 plan on another site ...
Link just woked fine for me Nidel .joe
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