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First attempt at 4 Ch...failure.

Old 08-22-2010, 05:03 AM
  #1  
Sagiv
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Angry First attempt at 4 Ch...failure.

So after about a year of flying my 3 Ch Super Cub LP, I decided to move on to 4 Ch with a Trojan 28D.

My first experience....did not go well. It was totally my fault.

So I go to take off (from the ground, on pavement) and I get about 10-15 feet in the air and I try to turn.......now I'm used to my RUDDER being on the right stick (from the Super Cub) and needless to say it was the ailerons...so I pretty much nosedived it and the wing came off....some damage to the foam....prop destroyed.....

Oh also....I programmed dual rates and expo and forgot to turn the dual rates on.....


I got home and fixed everything. I want to go out tomorrow morning and try again...but I'm a little reticent.....although I know you gotta get back on the horse when you fall off.



Sagiv
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:32 AM
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TylerJCooper
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Sorry to hear about the crash and wish you luck on your next flight. You would have to be a prodigy to be able to never crash a 4ch.
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:37 AM
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offtom
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Yup.

Pick yer plane up, dust it off, epoxy a spot or two....then go fly. Least now you have a better idea what to do next time.

It's all good.
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Old 08-22-2010, 06:10 AM
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phillipmorris
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It won't require much input using the ailerons, they are abit responsive, also be sure things are flush on the ailerons in the neutral positon before inputs. Just go gentle on the next attempt, gain some altitude before the next maiden turn. Last moving the aileron stick to the left your left aileron rises and the other dips, moving aileron stick to the right the right aileron rises with the left one dipping. Likely aware of this, be sure the settings are correct. Good Luck, again easy on the touch. BEST
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Old 08-22-2010, 08:09 AM
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Numbthumbs
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I crashed my first T-28 on the maiden flight too after coming from a SC. I flew it right into the bright sun and lost it. Then I heard a Woompfff! I dove it into the ground from forty feet at WOT. Split the fuse in half, broke a wing, cowl was trashed, I thought it was a goner. Fixed up a dream though and went on to give me over a hundred satisfying flights (with a couple more hard crashes too, that plane is a beast!).

Good advice so far here, I will second the EASY touches on the sticks. The SC requires a good yank on the rudder to get her to turn, not the T-28 though! Also, get up HIGH before you try anything. Just keep it going up nice and easy at a 45 angle, only make some minor aileron adjustments if it is starting to turn. When you are a couple hundred feet high, then you can start yankin' and bankin'!

Have fun and good luck!
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Old 08-22-2010, 12:36 PM
  #6  
phillipmorris
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Another note on maidening different models, they likely will need some trim adjustments once in the air, if minor you might pull it off inflight, but if the plane is example really dropping quickly, often safer to stick it down and do the adjustments on the ground.

We maidened a ship just yesterday, trim abit too far down on the elevator, it took full input to get it airborne but once inflight was really zinging great, however wanted to drop quickly, had someone else hit the up elevator trim as I was really busy on the stick. Later Passed the controls to another flyer gifted on landings, had it near level at a slower speed but by the time all intrim we burned down the battery to the point it wasn't enough throttle to keep it flying, he had to deadstick it into some high weeds, came in safe other than a broken prop. It was too low to turn it but was otherwise unharmed. The maiden can tax even the vetern flyers. Be sure the COG is correct as well as flush settings. Good Luck
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Old 08-22-2010, 01:05 PM
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idealhobbies
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Sagiv,

Don't worry. You are not the first, nor will you be the last, to have "an incident" on their maiden flight. Repair and relaunch. My T28 has had several "incidents" and is still flying.

Good luck to you.
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Old 08-22-2010, 01:54 PM
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CHELLIE
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Fix up the plane, and run a couple of batteries through it on the ground, Taxi it around with the left stick, that will help you to get the feel for the rudder being on the left stick now, That has happened to me too, so dont feel like the Lone Ranger hope that helps, Chellie
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:23 PM
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Sagiv
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Should I "try to fly it like a 3 Ch" with rudder and elevator inputs only? and then only slowly putting in the occasional aileron input?


Or is that the wrong approach...
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:31 PM
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CHELLIE
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Originally Posted by Sagiv View Post
Should I "try to fly it like a 3 Ch" with rudder and elevator inputs only? and then only slowly putting in the occasional aileron input?


Or is that the wrong approach...
If your used to flying with a 3 channel, Yes, thats what i would do, get the plane up about 3 to 4 mistakes high, and see how the ailerons feel to you, but first run a couple of batteries on the ground TAXI AROUND to teach your left hand to be the rudder now

Last edited by CHELLIE; 08-23-2010 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:58 PM
  #11  
Insomniac
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Well, I'm not sure about the Trojan, but I know many aileron planes simply won't handle properly with just elevator and rudder imput, as the wings are generally designed quite differently on a R/E/T plane than on one with ailerons. I'd say use the ailerons, but just be gentle with them. They really arn't any harder than flying with rudder, just a little different.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:59 PM
  #12  
slipstick
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Originally Posted by Sagiv View Post
Should I "try to fly it like a 3 Ch" with rudder and elevator inputs only? and then only slowly putting in the occasional aileron input?
That's a tempting approach but it can get you in a lot of trouble. Many 4-ch planes don't turn at all well with just rudder input. I've had several that won't turn AT ALL but just yaw a bit .

The initial advice just to be gentle with the ailerons is all you need. You did say you have already got some expo in and are using dual rates...above all make sure the expo is set the correct way (making it LESS sensitive round the centre not MORE). Also you should start off with the dual rates set to LOW. You can usually get away with something like 50% of the normal control movements.

That plus letting it just fly itself straight to get some height before you try to do anything else should see you flying.

Steve
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:28 PM
  #13  
Scruffy
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Heres where a sim comes in really handy. If you own one pull it out. Sounds like you were excited and like you said got the sticks confused. Maybe a little sim time to get used to the controlls. Theres gonna be "stituations" where you need that muscle memory to react with out having to think about it.
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Old 08-22-2010, 04:27 PM
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BEAR-AvHistory
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Big thing to remember is once you get the plane banked get the aileron stick back to neutral. Many new to 4C people tend to hold the aileron stick in & roll the plane over into a death spiral.

Don't ask me how I know.
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:59 AM
  #15  
starcad
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Dial in those dual rates on to low and put in some expo. Flying with ailerons is basically like flying with rudder. You bank to the desired angle and the neutralize the stick a little to maintain the bank angle. Then add the elevator to turn the plane. In other words your changing the angle of bank and increasing the lift to make the plane turn in the desired direction. When you are at the new heading just move the ailerons the opposite direction to straighten the plane. Sounds simple but take lots of practice.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:29 AM
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phillipmorris
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All giving you the correct info, seems to the newbie attempting rudder and elevator would work but it DOESN'T. So pay heed, amazingly with the ailerons ships you actually fly them mostly with just the aileron and elevator. Simply go easy on the ailerons as if they are a senseative rudder and you'll be way ahead of the game. It quickly becomes easy after a few successful flights. Hang in there. Good Luck
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:12 PM
  #17  
blueapplepaste
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Originally Posted by Sagiv View Post
Should I "try to fly it like a 3 Ch" with rudder and elevator inputs only? and then only slowly putting in the occasional aileron input?


Or is that the wrong approach...
As others have said, many 4-ch planes can't turn, or turn very poorly with just rudder. Most people do the "bank and yank" method - bank the plane a little towards the direction you want to turn, then add a little elevator to pull it around. I would try this way 1st if I was you.

If you go in thinking you'll only use rudder and its ineffective then you're back where you started. Go in planning to use the ailerons from the get go, then add rudder in as you get more comfortable.

Rudder can be added to smooth out the turn for coordinated turns and is helpful in crosswind landings where you have to crab the plane in.
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Old 09-12-2010, 03:29 AM
  #18  
automag928
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as I have recently acquired a t-28 trojan, im glad to hear they are resilient to newbie mistakes!
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Old 10-03-2010, 12:41 AM
  #19  
RCGIJOE09
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Hello Guys I still kinda in the same boat. I start off with T-28 a almost a year ago had no luck with it as a newbie so I located someone in my area that flew RC planes and he had a Supercub LP and so i put down the T-28 and Got the SuperCub and learn to fly that and after several crashes i'm finally got the hang of it and now i do not fear the Supercub at all and even am cool with hand launching it. So Now i'm back to my T-28 which i'm determine to learn to fly it. I found another group in my area and had them check out my T-28 and they were able to fly it with out a hitch cause they all have T-28 and so they handed it over to me once in the air and i was flying my own plane for the first time!! and boy it felt great!! So Now i have taken it out sense then and hey guess what i crashed it again. So looks like i need some more time with other flyers so as to get a visual of how this plane respond. I seem to get nervos on the take offs and in up nose diving it in to the ground. I thinking possible it is different then the supercub being a low wing instead of a high wing and?? So tell me what you think at this point any advice is welcome. thanks.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:55 AM
  #20  
1320fastback
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The Trojan will definitely handle differently than the Super Cub. They both have some dihedral in the wing but the Cub being high wing will definitely want to self stabilize its self a lot more than the Trojan.

The Trojan as you know also has ailerons so it will take less input on your part to bank the plane and more input on our part to bring it out of the bank than the Super Cub needed. You will also need to add some up elevator in the turn to keep the nose up.

Just keep practicing.
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:42 AM
  #21  
skyman
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yeah, sadly, a lot of people get exited that they can fly their super cub so they jump right into the trojan. the trojan is a GREAT third plane, but is a bit much for a second. i got it as my second, but i had flown friends warbirds before, and had plenty of sim time. i would recommend like a cessna 182 as a second plane in general. anyway, before you fly it again, i would recommend getting some good sim time in. good luck to you!
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