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T28 Trojan

Old 07-29-2010, 08:20 PM
  #976  
Numbthumbs
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Originally Posted by Glacier Girl View Post
Nuclear, with your latest set up what kinda specs are you getting? I see the 950 watts/60amps, but am looking to see your thrust and speed and prop size.


I'm building my third one now. But looking to go the other way on a performance set up.

Instead of the high kv/high amps, I'm going low kv/high volts. Like I did in my old Stryker days. Watts is watts to a motor, how you get to it is up to you.
Hey Glacier, that is my setup. I don't measure thrust, but it was VERY nice. Check out the video if you want to see the speed. Prop was 10x7 APC. Speed was good, faster than any other setup I have tried. Thrust was VERY good, went up like a rocket.

I recommend you go with a lower KV motor than mine though, as it is pretty much maxed out at 9x6 and 10x7 is already pushing it(on 4S that is). I think if you go with the lower KV version of the same motor, you could get away with 10x10 on 4S which should be fun to fly . GRU flys this setup too, but on 3S and with the lower kv motor, which makes the 10x10 on 4S possible according to his calculations.

Here is the video again if you want to check it out:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-2Mo9QZm7s[/media]
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:19 AM
  #977  
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Whoops, sorry bout that Numbthumbs.
Yeah I'm sold on the low kv/high volts/low amp deal.

Right now the set up I have, is looking like this. 5S2650 20C, 10x10, 57 oz. thrust, 92 mph prop speed/around 75 mph actual speed.

Only 450 watts and 30 amp draw, as the motor is running at 85% efficiency.

Per the calcs, WOT for 4 1/2 minutes, like I would do that. So I should be able to get an easy 10 minutes as I only need 30% throttle for optimal flight speed.

And no mods to the airframe for speed,other then I added an extra CF rod to the wing.

Mine has flaps and full nav/landing lamps, and I added a 7th servo for separate steering control, so it's no lightweight.
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Old 07-30-2010, 06:21 AM
  #978  
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Glacier Girl,

I'm new to electrics, so forgive me for my ignorance. I'm trying to follow what you've said in the last few posts. I'm trying to figure out if (for lack of a better comparison), you guys are talking about a "hp" bird vs a "torque" bird. Would that be accurate?

He's swinging a smaller prop faster, at high speeds, whereas you'll be swinging a bigger prop at a slower speed? He'll have a plane that can do insane high-speed vertical climbs at high RPM, whereas you'll have a plane that can hang on the prop at lower rpm and just "float"?

Or I could be completely wrong, too. I'm just trying to put this conversation into terms I can better understand.
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Old 07-30-2010, 07:18 AM
  #979  
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Hi Glacier Girl, which motor are you using? What is your AUW?

@motoguy-

I use a motor that has an 1100kv rating (that is per rpm/volt, no other factors included, i.e. propeller, drag, etc..). The higher the KV, the faster it spins, but the less torque it has. The higher the kv, the smaller the prop you must use to remain within the amp/watt limits of the motor. the lower the kv, the bigger prop you can use.

So a high kv motor, say 3600+ can only spin a very small prop, i.e. 4x3 (random number, just an example), and will have hardly any torque, but go insanely fast. Some EDF jets need a bungee to launch with such motors because the prop/motor combo does not give enough thrust to launch it, but once it gets up to speed, it is ok, some reaching 150mph+

On the other side of the spectrum, large scale planes may need a 300kv motor, which could spin say (random again, but you get the idea) a 20" x 15" = huge amounts of thrust to lift the heavy beast.

She wants to use a lower kv motor, probably 790-900 or so, which would allow her to spin a bigger prop (say 10x10), and remain within the motor's paramaters. A 10x10 prop on my 1100kv motor would be way overamped and the motor would burn up.

Lower kv motors give you more options on larger props/more cells, though the T-28 is pretty much limited by its landing gear to an 11" prop max, at which size you are already mowing the lawn with it.

Hope that helps!
Cheers,
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Old 07-30-2010, 05:09 PM
  #980  
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That makes sense. Thanks for the information!
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:56 PM
  #981  
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Yep as Numbthumbs said. Oh and GG is an airplane, I'm not a girl.

To add to the explanation, and possible confuse you even more. As mentioned there is more then one way to make something work. A motor for the most part is only concerned with the Watts going through it. Watt's Law is Amps x Volts = Watts.

Pretty simple. 10 volts x 1 amp = 10 watts. So does 1 volt x 10 amps = 10 watts.

Again, for the most part, a motor doesn't care how you come up with the watts it's fed.

High vs Low KV. easy way to think of this is a manual transmission. Low KV is low gear, normally it has stump pulling power but doesn't do it very fast.

High KV, is high gear, it will have you really moving along, but it takes a bit to get there.

Now where the fun comes in. Both KV systems can be, I guess "tricked" is a good word to use. You can trick a high KV motor into a stump puller by adding a gearbox to it. The gearing in the gearbox takes the high speed motor and reduces it's speed/increases it's torque. BUT, you still have a fairly high amp draw. It takes power to move a high KV motor.

A low KV motor in turn can be tuned into a speed demon, by just increasing the voltage to it. As long as you stay close to the maximum watt rating on the motor.

I use the term close, as I've played with some low kv motors rated at no more then 25 amps, and run em over 50 amps, and NEVER had a failure. But this is just a limited case on a certain brand. Manufactures normally give a rating lower then the actual amount the motor can handle, for safety reasons. So more numbskulls like me don't try stupid things with them.


Anyhow, I tend to favor the low kv motors for hopping up a system. For a couple of reasons. Low kv is low amp draw, even as you add more volts. Where as a high kv motor is going to be high amp draw no matter what you do with it.

So with a low kv motor I can run a larger cell count, but lower capacity pack. It pretty much equals out to the weight of what a high KV system would need, just in reverse, low cell count, high capacity.


Now where the magic comes in, as Numbthumbs touched on, and I give to you for free, is the biggest speed/performance tip a low kv motor can give you.


Remember a low KV motor has grunt power, it will spin a big prop. When you trick the motor by adding lots more voltage, it will still spin a big prop, it will spin it a heck of a lot faster, and it will still only draw low amps.

And the benefits of this? You now have a power plant that can accelerate from a stop like a Top Fuel dragster, and has the speed too. AND, here's where it really shines. It can turn and burn, it doesn't lag( remember a high KV set up has to wind up to get to speed) as you hammer the throttle. It will sprint forward while the high KV system has to wind up.

Kinda like running a nitrous oxide system or JATO booster.


For a last example. Numbthumbs system is using 4S power and pulling 60 amps to perform as stated. It will vertical and flies pretty fast.

Now mine using 5S power(and I can go higher) will do the same, at around 30 amps,but mine will do it quicker from a stop, and even from in flight, as a bigger prop being spun increases the available thrust. And by tricking the motor with higher voltage, it will spin the bigger blade fast enough to match NT's speed.

And as my system is running at a higher efficiency, I don't need as much throttle to cruise the skies, so even though I have a smaller capacity pack, or smaller gas tank if you will, my set up gets better fuel mileage, so it runs the same length of time as NT's.

Hopefully that helped, and didn't confuse you even more. And don't tell anyone my secret.



Oh and Numbthumbs, my set up is from the junk drawer. An old Mega 600/30/7 and a Castle 60. "Supposedly" it's rated for 30 amps, but I know that this manufacturer WAY under rates their motors, so I may go even sillier on the cell count, amps be damed.

I'll get you a weight on it soon as I can. Gotta finish the paint job first.
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:16 AM
  #982  
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GG,

Thanks for the info! I'll try to absorb that for a while, and see what sticks! FWIW, it sounds like the route I'd like to go.

FWIW, I know GG is a plane. I've been a big fan of 'er ever since I watched them melt her out of the glacier with that big copper ice-melting-bob! I wish they could have saved some siblings, and as I recall, there was a B17 down there as well.
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:18 PM
  #983  
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Yeah there's been some plans kicked around about the rest of the flights recovery, P-38's and B-17's. But that's about all. It took some really deep pockets for GG's recovery and rebirth. And that's where the problem lies.

Sadly she isn't even with the original team anymore, after Roy Shoffner passed on she was sold to Rod Lewis in Texas.
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:52 PM
  #984  
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Looking forward to photos/videos GG!
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Old 07-31-2010, 09:50 PM
  #985  
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I be working on it. I'd be a lot further along if it wasn't for the local Hobby Town. A POS LHS, and the only game in town. How the heck can Lakeland, home of Florida Jets and Top Gun, have no stinking hobby shops. Other then HT, and Frank T's place, there is nothing near by. Closest place is Graves in Orlando. 1hr+ drive one way.

I needed a horizontal stab, as of course they were out. Owner tells me he'll order it on the 28th, and will be in on the 30th no problem. Well no call on the 30th, so I call today. Guess what, it never got ordered as apparently they didn't have an order over $100.00 to place. So maybe they will order on Monday.

I should have just ordered it from Horizon, and should have known better. This is the same place that ordered the prop for my Gee Bee, 58, yes FIFTY EIGHT times before I checked their order number and saw they had been ordering a non existing number
and no one was smart enough to see it and thought because it got canceled it was on back order. I actually ordered a prop from both Tower and Horizon and got them before they even got on the ball and got it coming.

Rant over. Sorry bout that. But how a place stays in business when they operate like that amazes me.


Anyhow, Since I was at a pretty much stand still, I worked on HDL's today. And actually had some fun doing them. "WE" had to spray for bugs in the yard today as one brazenly snuck into the house.

Well at Lowes I picked up a gallon jug of Spectricide (?) that has a powered spray head. Two AA batteries power it.
AND IT SOUNDS LIKE A MINI MACHINE GUN WHEN YOU FIRE IT UP.
TAT TAT TAT TAT TAT!!!!!!

I machine gunned every bug I saw. I went through 3 sets of batteries, thank goodness I had a bunch of rechargeable ones.

I was to the point where I could walk a burst into any bug in sight. Little puffs of dry ground as each "shell" impacted the earth, and the victim tossed as a "round" found home.

WHAT? It was fun, and it was too dang hot to fly. 100 degrees and 100% humidity end to make you sweat, I nearly blinded myself at 9 am trying to fly my Slow Stick.

Nothing worse then having sweat pour into your eyes while you are wearing glasses.
Can't wipe em cause the glasses are in the way. All I know is through blurred vision I saw the SS clear a 4 foot fence and then proceed to nearly take my head off before I was able to clear my sight, and get it back in some control.
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Old 08-01-2010, 04:02 PM
  #986  
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Originally Posted by Glacier Girl View Post
I be working on it. I'd be a lot further along if it wasn't for the local Hobby Town. A POS LHS, and the only game in town. How the heck can Lakeland, home of Florida Jets and Top Gun, have no stinking hobby shops. Other then HT, and Frank T's place, there is nothing near by. Closest place is Graves in Orlando. 1hr+ drive one way.

I needed a horizontal stab, as of course they were out. Owner tells me he'll order it on the 28th, and will be in on the 30th no problem. Well no call on the 30th, so I call today. Guess what, it never got ordered as apparently they didn't have an order over $100.00 to place. So maybe they will order on Monday.

I should have just ordered it from Horizon, and should have known better. This is the same place that ordered the prop for my Gee Bee, 58, yes FIFTY EIGHT times before I checked their order number and saw they had been ordering a non existing number
and no one was smart enough to see it and thought because it got canceled it was on back order. I actually ordered a prop from both Tower and Horizon and got them before they even got on the ball and got it coming.

Rant over. Sorry bout that. But how a place stays in business when they operate like that amazes me.


Anyhow, Since I was at a pretty much stand still, I worked on HDL's today. And actually had some fun doing them. "WE" had to spray for bugs in the yard today as one brazenly snuck into the house.

Well at Lowes I picked up a gallon jug of Spectricide (?) that has a powered spray head. Two AA batteries power it.
AND IT SOUNDS LIKE A MINI MACHINE GUN WHEN YOU FIRE IT UP.
TAT TAT TAT TAT TAT!!!!!!

I machine gunned every bug I saw. I went through 3 sets of batteries, thank goodness I had a bunch of rechargeable ones.

I was to the point where I could walk a burst into any bug in sight. Little puffs of dry ground as each "shell" impacted the earth, and the victim tossed as a "round" found home.

WHAT? It was fun, and it was too dang hot to fly. 100 degrees and 100% humidity end to make you sweat, I nearly blinded myself at 9 am trying to fly my Slow Stick.

Nothing worse then having sweat pour into your eyes while you are wearing glasses.
Can't wipe em cause the glasses are in the way. All I know is through blurred vision I saw the SS clear a 4 foot fence and then proceed to nearly take my head off before I was able to clear my sight, and get it back in some control.
GG,

I know you probably are familiar with this outfit already, but ln the off chance you aren't:

http://www.rcslot.com

Out here in Texas - another big RC state - we are in the same predicament - seems our local HobbyTown is much more into selling metal detectors to rubes than maintaining an RC inventory. This site is where I order all my PZ parts. Cheap and fast shipping.

Gru.
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:41 AM
  #987  
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Thanks Gru.

Well here's my final set ups. Yep two of em. I couldn't decide so I figured set it up so it could do both.

I made up a series Dean Connector for the esc. Used another Deans to make a bypass
plug for one of the ends This way I can run a single pack or a pair in series to up the volts.

The low volt set up is 3S with and APC 11x9x4. 27.5 amps, 56.6 thrust, and 51 mph
High volt is 6S with a APC 9x10x2, 31.4 amps, 57.7 thrust, and 78 mph.

If I feel like just putzing around I go low volts, or I get a little froggy, I go high volts.
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:58 AM
  #988  
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Sounds like fun!
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:00 AM
  #989  
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I've done my homework and have searched through the t28 threads and hear about how bad and awful the stock ZX10 radio and transmitter are on the RTF version. This is my first plane that was given to me by a friend and I want to make sure that I enjoy the hobby before I get a DX6i

Horizon hobby is replacing my 25amp ESC with the new eflite 30amp under warranty. Mind you, this plane has been sitting in a closet and never flown so this the white and red RTF version.

With the new 30amp ESC, maybe I will not experience the glitching that others have experienced as the BEC can handle the digital servos now. Can anyone comment or do I need to go out and buy a DX6i to fly this thing with confidence? Anyone out there using the ZX10/30amp ESC combo?

Also, I read in a thread somewhere that the DX7 can buddy box up with the ZX10. Can anyone confirm this as I have a friend who is going to help me learn to fly if this is the case.
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:02 AM
  #990  
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Hey eagle76.

I ran my first T with the stock tx/rx for quite some time. Don't remember having a problem with it. As a matter of fact the tx and rx are still in use in my nephew's Slow Stick. Mine too was the red and white version, and had the 25 esc in it. I just went with a stand alone bec to prevent the dreaded brown outs.

From what I understand, the 30 amp esc has held up pretty well vs the 25.
One thing I'd recommend is when you install the new esc don't bury it in the foam like the original was. The more airflow you can get around the esc the better it is for it's health.


As for buddy boxing with a Spektrum, I don't think so. Your tx/rx is 72 mhz, the Spektrum is 2.4. They don't mix.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:38 AM
  #991  
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Originally Posted by eagle76 View Post
I've done my homework and have searched through the t28 threads and hear about how bad and awful the stock ZX10 radio and transmitter are on the RTF version. This is my first plane that was given to me by a friend and I want to make sure that I enjoy the hobby before I get a DX6i

Horizon hobby is replacing my 25amp ESC with the new eflite 30amp under warranty. Mind you, this plane has been sitting in a closet and never flown so this the white and red RTF version.

With the new 30amp ESC, maybe I will not experience the glitching that others have experienced as the BEC can handle the digital servos now. Can anyone comment or do I need to go out and buy a DX6i to fly this thing with confidence? Anyone out there using the ZX10/30amp ESC combo?

Also, I read in a thread somewhere that the DX7 can buddy box up with the ZX10. Can anyone confirm this as I have a friend who is going to help me learn to fly if this is the case.
While the T-28 is a great plane, I highly recommend you start with a 3-channel flier like the Super Cub from Horizon Hobby. The T-28 is, as 4-channel planes go, "easy" to fly, but if you have never flown before I guarantee your first flight will be very short. It is a low-wing sport aerobatic plane, and would be tricky for the uninitiated. Your stint in the hobby may possibly end in frustration as is so often the case.

As tempting as it is just to toss it up and have a go, I believe you will be much happier by starting out with a 3-channel high-winged trainer.

My 2 Cents!
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:41 AM
  #992  
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Numbthumbs and Glaciergirl
I appreciate the fact that you all want me to succeed with a supercub and or trainer plane. I got a Trojan free from a buddie of mine who does not have time to fly it. I figured I'd take up the hobby as I have always been fascinated with rc planes. I plan to only fly with a buddie box until I am closely monitored and can land this thing with another friend of mine who has a trojan.
Not trying to be over confident here but I feel like I can overcome the trainer/ bypass the cub and typically a fast learner at almost anything I do. I also have extensive hours on Realflight.
I figure that If I crash, Im gonna have to buy new wings and or fuselage.
You guys know a heck of alot more about this hobby than I do but I just think that If I take the trojan slow and fly at 1/2 3/4 throttle that I can cruise around do some figure eights and practice my approach, ultimately landing that bird. I'll let you know how it goes. Worse case, if I run it into the ground, I myself and some bystanders will probably get a good laugh out of it!
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:25 AM
  #993  
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Well best of luck to ya eagle!

I'm still at a standstill. I call H/T again to check on my stab. "Oh yeah it came in yesterday"

Drive over and am handed a prop......................................

Not just any prop, one that per them today had been ordered over 300 times by them before they were able to get it for me......................................

The same as the one I had to show them they were ordering the wrong part number for about 2 months ago, and the one I got in two days after they ordered the correct number.

The twits never took it off their order sheet.


Oh, my stab? It's on back order.........................................


Told em if they don't have it by Wednesday, I want em to pull one from one of their kits for me.
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:35 AM
  #994  
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GG,

You stated you got the motor [Mega] for your T-28 out of a junk drawer, however if that drawer contained a Mega motor it couldn't be a junk drawer!!! You stand corrected sir! LOL!

I love my Megas! They take a lickin and keep on ticken better than a Timex.

CTD
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Old 08-08-2010, 03:12 PM
  #995  
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Yeah you're right, a Mega isn't junk. I guess I should have said my drawer of motors I still haven't figured out a use for. Heavy bugger thou. I ended up making a battery tray that puts the pack(s) over the servos to get it to balance.
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Old 08-24-2010, 05:35 AM
  #996  
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Exclamation WARNING WARNING Will Robinson

Well the maiden didn't go to well.

Initial flight showed it had tons of thrust, easily hovering, and decent speed as suspected with the 3 cell set up and 4 blade prop. Flaps worked perfectly, even my guess on setting the elevator for them. She would slow down like someone had slammed on the brakes, no nose up or down.

Well after a few laps of checking things out I decided to try some stunts.
First up a loop from level flight. Was great till she was inverted.

Canopy blew off and she spiraled in. Crushed the fuselage, ripped off the nose, and tore the wing loose.


Post flight inspection found that Horizon had the magnet on the fuse installed backwards. Instead of sticking together they were repelling each other. Only the interference fit of the foam was holding on the canopy.

I've sent an email to Horizon about it, hopefully they will do something about it for me, and place a bulletin about the possible boo boo that other's may run into if they buy parts to build their own.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:52 PM
  #997  
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Ouch! Sorry to hear about that! Hope you get her up again soon!
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:22 PM
  #998  
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Well Horizon has come through.
Got an email from Albert there, and after he read my report he's sending me a new fuse.

HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!!!!!!!!!!

Horizon still holds the record for best customer service!
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:02 PM
  #999  
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Originally Posted by Glacier Girl View Post
Well Horizon has come through.
Got an email from Albert there, and after he read my report he's sending me a new fuse.

HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!!!!!!!!!!

Horizon still holds the record for best customer service!

I never have taken advantage of Horizon's largesse... I always rightfully challked up my Trojans' demise to my own dense digitry lol

Last edited by groundrushesup; 08-27-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:10 AM
  #1000  
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I received my new PNP T-28 today, I am now waiting for that $15 6 channel receiver and 2 2200mah lipo's I purchased from Hobby King for a song......I am looking to purchase another motor and prop adapter from Hobby King. Does anyone have any suggestions?...Mike
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