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Old 07-19-2014, 01:22 PM   #1
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Default Throttle trim setting...

Am I supposed to have my throttle trim set all the way down? I'm using a firepower 400 motor from HURC. It's running great. When I flew nitro I always had to drop the trim down for idle purposes on the throttle.

What was I thinking?
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Old 07-19-2014, 01:33 PM   #2
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Depends on the radio and ESC...

Many ESCs no autodetect throttle range. Some you have to program to match yor radio's throttle range and others assume a normal range and you only have to program if you don't get desired results.

Some computer radios the throttle trim l(when its a slider) only affects the lower half of throttle range and you can thus use it to control what minimum stick means, leaving throttle partly on for instance to avoid actuating brake if you have activated that ESC function.

The possibilities are too many to be able to answer without actually owning the same radio and ESC.

Try it and make use of the trim as seems appropriate.

Note that in most cases we'll just leave the trim alone.
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Old 07-19-2014, 01:44 PM   #3
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Thanks FH.

What was I thinking?
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Old 07-19-2014, 03:11 PM   #4
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Throttle trims as Fhhuber says are not linear ... they for many years even in FM days - most were only actuve in the low throttle range ...

This is a hangover from the IC Glow days of mid neutral trim for flying ... trim back down to close carb and stop engine. At high throttle stick - the trim had little or no effect. Real older sets of course - trim was only a mechanical pot that didn't know if full or idle stick.

Only time I use trim is when some ESC's wont calibrate throttle range on first installation. Then it's trim all way down ... stick Full .. switch on Tx .. power up model - get beeps ... switch of model. Switch of Tx ... put trim back to centre and power up all again ... ESC should now be calibrated OK.

Really with electric - the throttle trim is in my opinion redundant except for that ESC bit. I only use it when flying IC stuff ... for same reason as years ago - idle setting and stop of motor.

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Old 05-01-2017, 03:35 AM   #5
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I could not figure out how to get motors on 2 planes to shut off at down throttle with an ESC new to my use: Cobra 33A. Hats off to solentlife for the following:

07-19-2014, solentlife, WattFlyer
"Only time I use trim is when some ESC's wont calibrate throttle range on first installation. Then it's trim all way down ... stick Full .. switch on Tx .. power up model - get beeps ... switch of model. Switch of Tx ... put trim back to centre and power up all again ... ESC should now be calibrated OK."

I rewrote the steps a bit as they apply to my DX6i which I modified: I replaced the Throttle Cut button with a switch, and labeled the switch positions "Hold" (motor cannot run) and "Run". I find this switch very convenient as it allows me to only enable the motor to Run when I am out in the field. I turn the switch to Hold when recovering planes in the field.

The steps that worked for me to remove a running motor at full throttle stick down are,

1) Select model
2) Tx on, set: throttle to full-up stick, throttle trim to full down, throttle Sw to "Run Position"
3) Connect battery to ESC
4) Remove battery connection to ESC
5) Move throttle stick to full-down & throttle trim to mid position
6) Connect battery to ESC
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:59 AM   #6
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That procedure will result in wrongly calibrated throttle. if you have the trim all the way down when you set the 'full throttle' calibration point, them move the trim you will and up with full throttle at about 3/4 stick, and trhe last 1/4 of the travel will do nothing.

Correct procedure for most ESCs is noted below:

1) Select model and remove prop.
2) Tx on, set throttle to full-up stick, throttle trim to CENTRE, throttle Sw to "Run Position"
3) Connect battery to ESC, wait for calibration beep (beep sequence varies ESC to ESC)
4) Move throttle stick to full-down (leave trim in mid position)
6) Wait for normal arming beeps then unplug battery
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
That procedure will result in wrongly calibrated throttle. if you have the trim all the way down when you set the 'full throttle' calibration point, them move the trim you will and up with full throttle at about 3/4 stick, and trhe last 1/4 of the travel will do nothing.

Correct procedure for most ESCs is noted below:

1) Select model and remove prop.
2) Tx on, set throttle to full-up stick, throttle trim to CENTRE, throttle Sw to "Run Position"
3) Connect battery to ESC, wait for calibration beep (beep sequence varies ESC to ESC)
4) Move throttle stick to full-down (leave trim in mid position)
6) Wait for normal arming beeps then unplug battery
Agreed normal procedure but often the Red Brick / Hobby King ESC's will not calibrate without moving the TRIM button Don't know why ... but happened on a number of ESC's I have.

But actually the trim will have no effect on FULL throttle position as Throttle trim only acts on the first part of throttle at low end..... so even with trim at full down when setting full position - you will still have full throttle at full position ...

Only a few radios do not have throttle botttom action based trim

Nigel

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Old 05-03-2017, 03:38 AM   #8
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All of my HobbyKing ESCs initialize normally, ie, using full throttle position and leaving throttle trim centered - no fussing. But the Cobra ESCs do not cooperate after initialization and run at maybe 1/5 full rpm with the throttle stick fully down. I then have to down-trim about 2/3s to get the motor to shut off. Everything works fine thereafter.

But initializing by including down trim seems like a good idea to me to overcome the problem. Thus I used the method involving the trim in down extreme during initialization.

I played around some more tonite with one of the Cobra ESCS, and low and behold it responded normally, after initializing normally. So given some more weeks for flying time and possible fiddling, I will plan to report back here. Though, I could not detect that the high throttle stick position was affected in any way no matter how I initialized. My DX6i works on a range of 6 graduations, and the motor seems to reach full speed after increase from "0" to 5-1/2 graduations in all cases.
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Old 05-03-2017, 08:35 AM   #9
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Hobby King ESC's I have bought lately have worked out of bag without need to calibrate ... and any that I did calibrate recently appear to not need the trim as before. But many I bought in past needed trim as well to complete.

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Old 05-03-2017, 01:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
But actually the trim will have no effect on FULL throttle position as Throttle trim only acts on the first part of throttle at low end.....
That's not the case Nigel. Trim offsets the entire travel range. You can see the effect if you use trim on any other channel, say rudder or elevator. Throttle trim works exactly the same as trim on any other channel, this is easy to prove by plugging a servo into the throttle channel and watching the effect of trim on servo travel in full, closed and mid throttle positions (all are effected equally).

If you want only to effect only the lower end of the travel range you need to use end point adjustment.
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:12 PM   #11
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JPF ... sorry but we are both wrong asit depends on settings.

I have even just checked my JR ... RL ... 9x's .... 9xr's ..... and ALL have trim effect low throttle and NOTHING at full. Just because the trim indicator moves on display means only its following the button ... but the servo readout stays static at full .... but moves at idle with trim change.

Following on from this I checked via the menu and found that I because of my Fuel jobbies - I have default as THROTTLE TRIM active which produces what I describe ... when I de-activated throttle trim - THEN it acted on both Full and Idle ...

If you fly Fuel - then last thing you want is action of trim at Full throttle ...

So in fact we are both right !! All depends whether you select throttle trim or not.

I know on my RL it does not have option to change and it is always no trim effect at Full throttle.

Nigel

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Old 05-04-2017, 08:21 AM   #12
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'Nigel,

You are right... I just checked my Spektrum DX18 and I was surprised to find that it was just as you said, lowering trim only effected the low range. The other channels dont behave like this, they work like I described. So it seems like there is something 'special' about the way trim works on throttle channel only... We live and learn!

Anyway, I've never yet had to use trims to get an ESC to work, possibly I've been lucky.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:47 AM   #13
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We both learnt something !!

I think er9x and OpenTx have implemented a choice on this .... which makes sense really.

But all my older radios are fixed with only trim on low throttle. I think because originally powered flight was fuel based and we needed Idle throttle control.

Nigel

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Old 05-04-2017, 01:40 PM   #14
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I almost always have to bring throttle trim down to zero to get an esc working. So every time I add a new model, I first bring throttle down before binding. Maybe this in the correct SOP.

Hawk
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
I almost always have to bring throttle trim down to zero to get an esc working. So every time I add a new model, I first bring throttle down before binding. Maybe this in the correct SOP.

Hawk
That's probably because you havent calibrated the ESC's throttle range.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:11 PM   #16
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Thank goodness nobody brought up an Idle Up curve in here. Bye.

I don't have a short temper. I just have a quick reaction to B.S.
Rob
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Old 05-05-2017, 07:36 AM   #17
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Now on the subject of curves ......

Only kidding !

Nigel

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Old 05-11-2017, 02:49 AM   #18
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reporting back.

My 3may17 post:
I played around some more tonite with one of the Cobra ESCS, and low and behold it responded normally, after initializing normally. So given some more weeks for flying time and possible fiddling, I will plan to report back here.
The problem with the Cobra ESC returned after a couple of flights. IE, I set it normally and it worked for a couple of flights, then it reverted to slow running motor with the throttle stick fully down and throttle trim at neutral. What to do? I will have to reinvoke the use of down throttle trim to stop motor rotation at down throttle stick. Also, I will contact innov8tivedesigns.com to discuss the issue.
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:07 AM   #19
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Well I guess that if the use of trim gets the job done then fair enough, you could also increase the low throttle endpoint in the servo setup screen in the Tx programming which would have the same effect.

I checked the Cobra manual and it doesnt say anything about the calibration procedure but the standard procedure for most ESCs is:
  • Remove prop
  • Turn on the Tx and put throttle stick to full
  • Plug in the plane's battery and when you get the first initialising beep close the throttle
  • Wait for normal arming tome and you are done

Reading the Cobra manual this procedure may result in you turning the brake on, if it does just repeat to turn it off. Calling innov8tivedesigns is probably a good call.
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:13 AM   #20
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I had a no-name ESC that would lose its settings if I powered up with throttle off idle ... it did not need to be at full ... most annoying and I soon ditched it to a lesser model.

I have noticed now that near all ESC's I get are fine out of box and no different after calibrating. I don't use CC or others now - mine are all from Hobby King, usually the RedBrick or Simple Series .... The need for trim when calibrating seems to have been sorted ....

Nigel

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Old 05-11-2017, 07:38 PM   #21
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I fly with JR 9303 radios, I haven't found anything in the DX series that would make me part with that much money. I may buy a Taranis someday as the case is based on a 9303 which is very comfortable in my hands.

On most of my planes, (when I have the sense to remember to do it), my procedure at start up is as follows. All planes have been tested and calibrated if necessary at home.

1- turn on TX, set throttle trim at mid position
2- Plug in the plane battery and wait for arming signals, then test motor (carefully.)
3- move throttle trim to the bottom.
4- Most important, Go Fly

I do this with the trim so that I have a slight, maybe 1 or 2 click dead band at the bottom of my throttle stick where the motor will not turn. On some planes even the first click will be significant power. I like a little safe zone. Also some of my ESC's when used in a glider with a folding prop, seem to need a little lower point than just no throttle to engage the brake function.

This is just the way I do it, some people will not do this for there own reasons, that's fine with me.

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Old 05-12-2017, 12:28 AM   #22
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Solved on my own (no call to innova8tivedesigns) - I believe.

I was not calibrating correctly according to supplied Cobra instructions. What is required for the Cobra (also can see atch jpg of instructions) is,
1) Turn Tx with throttle stick full up
2) Plug in battery
3) After first beeping sound(s) immediately move stick down
4) About 3 more secs later, observe a final sound to confirmed a save.
- so two separate beepings take place

What I did was,
1) same
2) same
3) Immediately(or within one or two secs) move throttle stick down
4) No concern for final beep(s), although one does take place.
- so only one beeping occurs

I am hearing impaired, but I can't blame my goof on that. I am the kind of person who tends to use things first, then read the directions. And yes to JetjPlaneFlyer - remove prop when working with prop issues.

Thanks to all for supporting me with ideas, and JetPlaneFlyer responsiveness in particular.


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Old 05-12-2017, 02:01 AM   #23
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When the esc beeps, it is actually the motor making the noise. You can feel the motor vibrate.

I don't have a short temper. I just have a quick reaction to B.S.
Rob
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:05 AM   #24
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@BirdDog

Thanks, never thought of that.

With that in mind, I have to mention that I use a timer with a vibrator. When the count down is completed I get a vibration and bring the plane down. The rest of the world would use the audible tone, but I do not hear well enough for it to work for me.
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