WWI Era Discuss all your favorite WWI warbirds here!

Mystery Swap Meet Find

Old 02-05-2012, 05:26 AM
  #1  
CarreraGTSCS
Member
Thread Starter
 
CarreraGTSCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 233
Default Mystery Swap Meet Find

Evening fellas. Some news here: I was at a local swap meet today and while I'm always on the lookout for things WW1 I rarely find anything of consequence or out of the ordinary ( common GP ARF's etc.) but today was different, very different. I'd finished setting up my table and was chatting to the guy at the table behind me when I notice another seller almost directly across from me start trudging in with a bunch of very large scale aircraft in various states of flight readiness and disrepair. Didn't pay much attention other to note his presence initially but something caught my eye. There was a big airframe with a familiar shape under his table. It was mostly built with the aft fuselage uncovered and it was obviously old if the dust coating it meant anything. It was beginning to get crowded and my view of it was obstructed so I put it out of my mind and got on with the business of selling off some stuff. It was big and the last thing I need is another big project.

Later on I walked by it a few times and only passingly examined it. It was big and obviously needed repair.

As the event neared ending I noticed it was still there so I walked over to it to examine it more closely if only to satisfy my curiosity. Couldn't help asking a few questions and found the owner very motivated to sell. Very motivated. Can you guess what happend next? Pictures and the answer to what it is that followed me home tomorrow...

Mike
CarreraGTSCS is offline  
Old 02-05-2012, 05:35 AM
  #2  
foodstick
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 107
Default

What a tease !


hahaha
Last swap meet I went to had everything but big interesting half built planes . Thats one of the best things to see for sale.
foodstick is offline  
Old 02-05-2012, 09:17 AM
  #3  
mclarkson
Super Contributor
 
mclarkson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,958
Default

Was it a PT-17? A Lancaster? The flying saucer from The Invaders? A Sikorsky Russian Knight?

Am I getting warm?
mclarkson is offline  
Old 02-05-2012, 07:06 PM
  #4  
CarreraGTSCS
Member
Thread Starter
 
CarreraGTSCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 233
Default

Drum roll please...

It's a Fokker D VIII designed by Bob Dunn of S.T.A.R.S. the Souther Tier Aero Radio Society. S.T.A.R.S. was one of the pioneer clubs in the promotion, development and building of 1/4 and 1/5 "Giant Scale" scale aircraft. What's become a common scale today these guys were doing in the 1970's when no large scale supplies were easily available.

As you can see from the pics she's in rough shape but she's definately worth saving. It doesn't look like it was every flown. The wood isn't oil soaked at all and the aft fuselage has no covering residue so I think she's a virgin. Model Airplane News sells the plans which I'll have to buy to work out the CG and throws. The specs as noted on the MAN site are a span of 99" but I measure it at 100" making it an odd scale so any details that I add I'll have to scratchbuild. Looks like I'll have to sculpt a pilot bust for it as well.

Looks at the pics and ask any questions you may have. I have to say that I think it's a beautiful model. Really dig the scale-ish length cowl. There are some areas that I'm going to rework and reshape but all in all I think she looks great and will be a great foundation on which to build something special.

Does anyone know Bob Dunn? I have a lot of questions for him.

Mike
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	NEW FOKKER 007.jpg
Views:	266
Size:	225.5 KB
ID:	156988   Click image for larger version

Name:	ECIM New Fokker DVIII 006.jpg
Views:	253
Size:	263.7 KB
ID:	156989   Click image for larger version

Name:	ECIM New Fokker DVIII 008.jpg
Views:	227
Size:	207.5 KB
ID:	156990   Click image for larger version

Name:	NEW FOKKER 005.jpg
Views:	233
Size:	282.8 KB
ID:	156991   Click image for larger version

Name:	NEW FOKKER 019.jpg
Views:	218
Size:	227.1 KB
ID:	156992  

Click image for larger version

Name:	NEW FOKKER 027.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	177.1 KB
ID:	156993   Click image for larger version

Name:	ECIM New Fokker DVIII 019.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	154.9 KB
ID:	156994   Click image for larger version

Name:	ECIM New Fokker DVIII 020.jpg
Views:	200
Size:	129.8 KB
ID:	156995   Click image for larger version

Name:	NEW FOKKER 010.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	123.2 KB
ID:	156996   Click image for larger version

Name:	NEW FOKKER 028.jpg
Views:	196
Size:	193.0 KB
ID:	156997  

Click image for larger version

Name:	NEW FOKKER 029.jpg
Views:	194
Size:	137.7 KB
ID:	156998   Click image for larger version

Name:	STARS history  001.jpg
Views:	236
Size:	140.9 KB
ID:	156999  
CarreraGTSCS is offline  
Old 02-05-2012, 08:23 PM
  #5  
wattman
Member
 
wattman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chandler ,Indiana
Posts: 410
Default

That really looks LARGE . Are you going to make it electric ?
wattman is offline  
Old 02-05-2012, 08:25 PM
  #6  
FlyingMonkey
Flite Test Fan
 
FlyingMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 32459
Posts: 8,930
Default

Awesome!
FlyingMonkey is offline  
Old 02-05-2012, 08:31 PM
  #7  
AirmanAirhead
Did that tree move??
 
AirmanAirhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 607
Default

Check this out.

http://www.rcstars.org/

that's their web-site I'm sure they can help you.
AirmanAirhead is offline  
Old 02-05-2012, 08:42 PM
  #8  
CarreraGTSCS
Member
Thread Starter
 
CarreraGTSCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 233
Default

Thanks guys. It is big! All amps and watts, no liquid fuel. I lifted the last pic from the S.T.A.R.S. site.

Mike
CarreraGTSCS is offline  
Old 02-06-2012, 04:50 AM
  #9  
CarreraGTSCS
Member
Thread Starter
 
CarreraGTSCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 233
Default

As it appears in the photos it's a whisker under 18 pounds. I'm estimating an AUW of 25 pounds give or take. Not too shabby considering that wing is bigger, has more area than my old surfboard!
CarreraGTSCS is offline  
Old 02-06-2012, 06:09 AM
  #10  
Wildflyer
Past President of PSSF
 
Wildflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lacey WA, 1 mile E of Mushroom Corner
Posts: 2,147
Default

The real plane had a wingspan of 27' 6 3/4".
Your plane works out to 0.302 X full size dimension. So I guess we would call it a 30% plane. If you can find scale details at 1/3 scale they should be close enough unless you enter a real tough scale contest.

The real plane, had between 66 and 96 watts per pound for power. I found references of 3 motors that range from 82KW (110hp), 145KW (145hp) and 119KW (160hp)

Empty weight 848 lbs
Max weight 1238 lbs

I have a bipe to finish for my father, but it is only 80". Looks like a nice project.

I'll bet your lawn mower was worried about where you were going to get a motor, before you decided on electric. There are many emotors that will handle that plane.
Wildflyer is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:09 AM
  #11  
7car7
Member
 
7car7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WA State
Posts: 843
Default

Wow. Gorgeous.
7car7 is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:50 AM
  #12  
Big Johnny
Master Of The Crash
 
Big Johnny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vass, North Carolina
Posts: 955
Default

Excellent, but from a economic standpoint, some of thes larger scale planes are cheaper to oufit with a gasser. Buy the time I bought all the stuff for my 1/4 scale Cub, I could have bought 2 DLE Gassers. I think after a certain size aircraft, you are getting dimishing returns on electric power. But I you have the Cash go for it. I'm in the process of saving up so I can buy some A123 cells for my Cub. Denny said he would help me wiring diagrams. Any fish in that Creek behind your house. Fishing I one of my other hobbies.
Big Johnny is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 12:56 AM
  #13  
Old Fart
Lost at LAX
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,171
Default

There's one of those at one of the fields I fly at - 55cc gas if I recall correctly. makes quite an impression.
Old Fart is offline  
Old 02-07-2012, 09:54 AM
  #14  
mclarkson
Super Contributor
 
mclarkson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,958
Default

Sweet!



(Though I was hoping for the Russian Knight. )
mclarkson is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 05:42 PM
  #15  
CarreraGTSCS
Member
Thread Starter
 
CarreraGTSCS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 233
Default

Thanks guys. It is a pretty impressive sight. Hopefully I'll do it some justice as a model this size can't squeak by with halfa$$ed detailing. I will get a few flights on her before any serious detailing though.

Wildflyer-- My lawn tractor is only 15 Hp and the D.VIII will probably end up with a little more than that!

Big Johnny-- Lots of fish. We stand on the dock and feed them by hand. If I bide my time and shop wisely I might be able to outfit her without breaking the bank (the bank is already starting to crack though). I'm considering some HK gear but I think in the end it'll be only for the lipos. Been thinking of A123's for it too. I was at the BP Hobbies store the other day and was looking at their largest motor. It was huge and it would turn something like a 28"-30" prop on 12s which is exactly what I'm looking for.

They also have some very nicely priced Corona metal gear servos of just about standard size which put out >150oz/in of torque.

Old Fart-- Love to know more or get in contact with the owner for some wisdom based on experience.

7car7 and Mclarkson-- Thanks guys!

Mike
CarreraGTSCS is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 08:04 PM
  #16  
Old Fart
Lost at LAX
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,171
Default

If I ever see him again mike I'll get some details - he was only at Whititer the one time I was there.
Old Fart is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 09:14 PM
  #17  
scalercflyer
Super Contributor
 
scalercflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,312
Default Yes you ruined my day!

Mike you just ruined my whole frickin" day! What a find! All of the hard work is already done for you! Keep us up to date on the build. Marty
scalercflyer is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 09:26 PM
  #18  
Old Fart
Lost at LAX
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,171
Default

Yeah, much as I don't NEED another Giant Scale plane (already have 4 planes that won't fit in the truck without pulling the tonneau), I'd have jumped on this too.

...but it'd be gas
Old Fart is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 09:42 PM
  #19  
CHELLIE
Super Contributor
 
CHELLIE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hesperia, So. Calif
Posts: 19,264
Default

Wow, Thats a Sweet Plane I get to do the Maiden flight on it when your Done with it LOL, Ok, just Kidding, Take care and have fun, Chellie
CHELLIE is offline  
Old 02-08-2012, 11:48 PM
  #20  
Old Fart
Lost at LAX
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,171
Default

I could easily bankrupt myself just on the "1/3 scale" page at Balsa USA
Old Fart is offline  
Old 02-09-2012, 12:16 AM
  #21  
scalercflyer
Super Contributor
 
scalercflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,312
Default

Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
I could easily bankrupt myself just on the "1/3 scale" page at Balsa USA
Yeah I could give my credit card a hernia too on that site. Gotta stay away! marty
scalercflyer is offline  
Old 02-09-2012, 12:29 AM
  #22  
Old Fart
Lost at LAX
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,171
Default

Once upon a time I priced out building a 1/3 Nieuport 28c-1. I hadn't even got to adding up the covering before I scared myself.
Old Fart is offline  
Old 02-09-2012, 12:47 AM
  #23  
Old Fart
Lost at LAX
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,171
Default

FWIW, if I were building that plane today I'd power it with either a (Gas) Zenoah G62 or Zenoah GT80. For comparison, the G62 produces 4.75 HP, the GT80 a bit over 6HP. Either will fly a 1/3 scale DVIII at more than scale speed.

One of the challenges in electrifying a plane of this type is getting it to CG. The original aircraft had very heavy radials (and some, like the Dr.1) flew tail heavy (and crashed accordingly). For that reason I would probably pick the GT80 (123 oz), and would still most likely need to add nose weight An electric motor producing 6HP is probably going to be lighter than the GT80 (Denny is looking up a Hacker as he reads this), so that means lead ahead of the CG to get back to the weight of the Zenoah. Then you have the batteries - which are going to be behind the CG - even more lead ahead..

Other challenge is flight time - typically I like at least 15 minutes (my 36% Katana will fly for well over that) - which means even more battery - and more lead up front. Now you have a very heavy plane with higher wing loading.....
Old Fart is offline  
Old 02-09-2012, 03:57 PM
  #24  
7car7
Member
 
7car7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: WA State
Posts: 843
Default

Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
Then you have the batteries - which are going to be behind the CG - even more lead ahead
So, is there a way to have the batteries in the cowl area? Or at least behind the firewall? Seems you could still get them ahead of the CG with some re-work. I've got a Nieuport that has the battery go through the firewall into the cowl. Seems it would be easy with this one since you use multiple batteries on a large plane, correct? They could be spread out in different spots around the motor I'd think.

I don't fly anything but electric, so I'm curious - if this plane is set up as a gasser, where does the tank go? On CG? Considering it changes through the flight, seems it would be very bad to have it anywhere else.

This is really interesting to me for some odd reason, but I don't foresee me ever having anything this big.
7car7 is offline  
Old 02-09-2012, 05:18 PM
  #25  
scalercflyer
Super Contributor
 
scalercflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,312
Default DVIII maiden

Mike there is no way you are going to maiden that bird without me! I wanna be there! Marty
scalercflyer is offline  

Quick Reply: Mystery Swap Meet Find


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.17131 seconds with 25 queries