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Old 05-14-2011, 11:25 PM
  #251  
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
a few points as to why i want to get into electrics.

thanks for posting this, there is a lot of info here to digest, i've gotten used to .60 size aircraft and understand the formulas shown (looking at ~100 watts per pound on a 8 lb bird) and now in another post have seen a electric four star kit that has peaked my interest as i was looking into the .60 glow version.

probably going off topic here but:
what is in your field box when you go out? ie in my glow kit i have a few glow plugs, wrenches, props, starter, plug warmer (powers plug), fuel, & some spare batteries for the receiver and transmitter. i expect pretty much the same but need to know what i'm getting myself into....
thanks,
-Chris
Funny you should ask. Take a look:
Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric<O</O
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

And another guy who went the electric route.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44686

As for my field box, it's got a transmitter, kitchen timer, Cellpro Powerlab 8 battery charger. Oh yeah, also got miscellaneous screws and hardware, screw drivers, pliars, and similar items, mostly for the fellow club members that fly glow engines.

That expensive Cellpro charger is needed for my 24 cell A123 battery configured as a 12 series, 2 parallel system for my Giant Scale 78 inch wingspan Extra 330's Hacker A60-16M motor. That thing turns a 19X12 prop at 6700 RPM, pulling about 3000 watts.

The power system pulls the 19 pound airplane up at 60 degrees, until you can't see it anymore.

One thing you can do with these larger electrics is powering the receiver and servos with a switching power supply such as the Castle Creations 10 Amp BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit). No receiver battery required! Or, go to the Castle Creations ICE ESC's (Electronic Speed Controls) that use a switching power supply to power the receiver and its servos.

For motor power, I'm an admitted Hacker nut, with 8 of them. They range from a little 1/3 HP A30-12S to the 4 HP A60-16M. Not cheap, but they work, and work well.

One good thing about electrics, no fuel to soak into your model. I had problems with a scratch built 65 inch wingspan model this spring with some 1200 flights on it. The supermonokote got so brittle, dropping a penny on it from three inches went through!

Recovering it was not a problem, pulled off all the Monkote, and had a completely CLEAN (no fuel!) wing and tail feathers to re-cover. Just flew it again last week.

But, around SE Wisconsin, it's been raining for much of the past month.

PS, I had a 4Star40 model and flew it a lot. BUT, the battery mounting is curved, its the inside of the top of the fuse. Made battery mounting a little bit of a hassle. I've got three "60" sized models that have been electrified. All weigh in at around 7.5 or 8 pounds. They all use those "A123" cells with 2300 Milliampere hour capacity, configured as a 6S2P (6 series, 2 parallel cell configuration) These A123 cells can be charged at as high a rate as your charger can put out. Mine are routinely recharged in about 15 minutes. My three 6S2P A123 packs are now on their fourth flying season, and all of them have the same exact performance as when they were brand new in 2007. That may not be true with the Lipo batteries.

But on the other hand, Lipos are lighter, have higher current output ratings, are smaller in size.
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:32 PM
  #252  
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ep field box.............tx,batteries and a plane to fly.....thats all ya need to start and finish a fun day. extra parts are optional.[battery charger]

i take 5 3cell2200mahs for the 3dhs 42"slick or the skimmer600, 3 3cell1500mahs for the airfoilsyak or herrpitts speacial bipe. and 3 sets of 4cells for the uproar. with those charged and ready to go i fly all day hard on the throttle with more air time than most glow pilots do.

best part is plug in the batts and fly!!

no priming,plugs to heat up,starter motor and battery to run it,no fuel to pump or drain, no tools to tune the engine and fiddleing to get the motor running right,or spray cleaner and paper towels to clean. i'm sure to be missing something but i don't do fuel flight.


enjoy the simplicity of EP!
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:48 PM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by stuart View Post
running right,or spray cleaner and paper towels to clean. i'm sure to be missing something but i don't do fuel flight.

And if you should "Accidentally" bend up your model, you've got a dry piece of balsa/plywood to fix. No worries about fuel soaked wood, no nothing. And, again, no vibration shaking your radio and model apart.

And, if you've properly set up your equipment, no "dead sticks".

Last edited by kyleservicetech; 05-15-2011 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 05-15-2011, 07:54 AM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Funny you should ask. Take a look:
Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric<o
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

And another guy who went the electric route.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44686

As for my field box, it's got a transmitter, kitchen timer, Cellpro Powerlab 8 battery charger. Oh yeah, also got miscellaneous screws and hardware, screw drivers, pliars, and similar items, mostly for the fellow club members that fly glow engines.

That expensive Cellpro charger is needed for my 24 cell A123 battery configured as a 12 series, 2 parallel system for my Giant Scale 78 inch wingspan Extra 330's Hacker A60-16M motor. That thing turns a 19X12 prop at 6700 RPM, pulling about 3000 watts.

The power system pulls the 19 pound airplane up at 60 degrees, until you can't see it anymore.

One thing you can do with these larger electrics is powering the receiver and servos with a switching power supply such as the Castle Creations 10 Amp BEC (Battery Elimination Circuit). No receiver battery required! Or, go to the Castle Creations ICE ESC's (Electronic Speed Controls) that use a switching power supply to power the receiver and its servos.

For motor power, I'm an admitted Hacker nut, with 8 of them. They range from a little 1/3 HP A30-12S to the 4 HP A60-16M. Not cheap, but they work, and work well.

One good thing about electrics, no fuel to soak into your model. I had problems with a scratch built 65 inch wingspan model this spring with some 1200 flights on it. The supermonokote got so brittle, dropping a penny on it from three inches went through!

Recovering it was not a problem, pulled off all the Monkote, and had a completely CLEAN (no fuel!) wing and tail feathers to re-cover. Just flew it again last week.

But, around SE Wisconsin, it's been raining for much of the past month.

PS, I had a 4Star40 model and flew it a lot. BUT, the battery mounting is curved, its the inside of the top of the fuse. Made battery mounting a little bit of a hassle. I've got three "60" sized models that have been electrified. All weigh in at around 7.5 or 8 pounds. They all use those "A123" cells with 2300 Milliampere hour capacity, configured as a 6S2P (6 series, 2 parallel cell configuration) These A123 cells can be charged at as high a rate as your charger can put out. Mine are routinely recharged in about 15 minutes. My three 6S2P A123 packs are now on their fourth flying season, and all of them have the same exact performance as when they were brand new in 2007. That may not be true with the Lipo batteries.

But on the other hand, Lipos are lighter, have higher current output ratings, are smaller in size.</o


the 'paper' on the glow to electric has sold me on the A123's. (liked your extra electronics as well, I'm an electronics tech ) i've been hesitant as to getting in to electrics due to the unreliability of LiPos safety while charging.... no need to put 50+ families out of house and home because of a hobby. (i live in a 4 story apartment building)

the thread on the A123s was also helpful and wouldn't mind a similar 'paper' on building packs & taking care of them (charge and balancing). its been a while since i've built battery packs for my old FM receivers. (i miss that old Kraft radio)

to be honest the cost will keep me from getting into it right away but by next summer who knows (might have to sell some other hobby items to raise some funds)

as for oil all over the models... i've always used an aftermarket muffler for my .60 that lets it spray out the bottom (cub style?), little clean up required. sure it looks funny with a motor sticking out the side of the fuse but it's supposed to look like that . (ya i got razzed for it all the time)

thanks again,
-Chris
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:16 AM
  #255  
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Hi Dennis
like you, I fly with a123 since 2006... first packs coming from a123 self... assembled in solderless tubes (rip+) as 6s1p... 8 of them coupled as 6s2p or 12s2p depending on plane.
Charging at the beginning under 24V with 0.5 ohm 50W resistor (cheap!), then with MasTech, now with iCharger 3010B... charging in the plane... balancing once a month... two 65Ah gel in the car...
Planes: RV-4 (6s2p), Fokker D.VII (6s2p), He111 (two 4s1p), Cup J-3 (12s2p), building large mosquito (10s3p)
Key features: pack dedicated to the plane and charged in it... dean charge plug and dean disconnect plug... now replaced with RX activated relay... RX powered with dual 2s 1100mA a123.
One issue: assembling cells takes time !
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:03 PM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by ramboman View Post
Hi Dennis
like you, I fly with a123 since 2006... first packs coming from a123 self... assembled in solderless tubes (rip+) as 6s1p... 8 of them coupled as 6s2p or 12s2p depending on plane.
Charging at the beginning under 24V with 0.5 ohm 50W resistor (cheap!), then with MasTech, now with iCharger 3010B... charging in the plane... balancing once a month... two 65Ah gel in the car...
Planes: RV-4 (6s2p), Fokker D.VII (6s2p), He111 (two 4s1p), Cup J-3 (12s2p), building large mosquito (10s3p)
Key features: pack dedicated to the plane and charged in it... dean charge plug and dean disconnect plug... now replaced with RX activated relay... RX powered with dual 2s 1100mA a123.
One issue: assembling cells takes time !

I did try running these A123 cells without soldering them in, but ran into problems with high contact resistance between cells. Could just be the cells I bought direct from China, don't know. They were engraved with the A123 logo, but anyone can do that.

I've not purchased from this place, but they are in the USA.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-A123-BATTERY...item5ad8c47a6e

These cells must be soldered up, and a good quality high power soldering iron is a must. I've picked up a 100 watt temperature regulated iron that worked very well. If you need to solder to raw cells with no solder tabs, I did find a solder flux in the internet that did the job. Let me know if you need to know what flux.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59884

My last A123 purchase was 24 cells directly from China. All was OK, I'm using them in my 3 KW Extra 330 with a Hacker A60-16M motor, pulling 80 Amps on a 12S2P setup.

But, these China folks shipped the batteries completely LOOSE inside one of those plastic bags. The price was good at $8.00 each, but zero packing???

One of these days, I'm going to wear out one of my packs, and will have to check out that supplier in Ohio, per above.
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:33 PM
  #257  
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I removed the taps from my evaluation kit... with silver paste, the solderless tubes are OK... but modified for the balance cable.
Second batch came from UK, with taps... soldered...
Third batch came from e-Bay, without taps... soldered...
Fourth batch came from HK, with taps... soldered...
Green one are easy to solder with common solder and a 200W regulated iron...
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:07 PM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by ramboman View Post
I removed the taps from my evaluation kit... with silver paste, the solderless tubes are OK... but modified for the balance cable.
Second batch came from UK, with taps... soldered...
Third batch came from e-Bay, without taps... soldered...
Fourth batch came from HK, with taps... soldered...
Green one are easy to solder with common solder and a 200W regulated iron...

Don't know what this stuff is, but the "all purpose flux" for $5.55 allowed instant "tinning" of the A123 cells with solder, using a Weller 100 Watt temperature regulated soldering iron. After completing all soldering, I cleaned everything off with pure alcohol, not the drugstore stuff that is 20% water. So far, a half year later, zero corrosion on the soldered connections.

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/Pro...-Supplies.aspx
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:44 PM
  #259  
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I don't really have anything against 123 cells except for the weight. I have been using LiPo cells since I started flying electric and have yet to have one burn my house down. As long as you take reasonable precautions while using them and charging, there are no problems with them. Everyone that I have heard about has made some kind of error in charging them and I have never heard of any cell just burning down someones house just for spite. There was always a very good reason for the fire that would never have happened if simple precautions were taken.

On bigger planes the weight is not a major problem, but on smaller ones and gliders where every ounce counts, weight can hurt you. Also the size of the cells can hurt your installation too. I really don't see any problems using them and I have been around quite a few other people that use them with no ill effect. Just like anything else you need to pay attention to what you are doing or even 123 cells will bits you. Oh yea, while most of my planes are electric, I still fly glow too....................

Ed
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:27 PM
  #260  
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Originally Posted by mred View Post
I don't really have anything against 123 cells except for the weight. I have been using LiPo cells since I started flying electric and have yet to have one burn my house down. As long as you take reasonable precautions while using them and charging, there are no problems with them. Everyone that I have heard about has made some kind of error in charging them and I have never heard of any cell just burning down someones house just for spite. There was always a very good reason for the fire that would never have happened if simple precautions were taken.

On bigger planes the weight is not a major problem, but on smaller ones and gliders where every ounce counts, weight can hurt you. Also the size of the cells can hurt your installation too. I really don't see any problems using them and I have been around quite a few other people that use them with no ill effect. Just like anything else you need to pay attention to what you are doing or even 123 cells will bits you. Oh yea, while most of my planes are electric, I still fly glow too....................

Ed
Agreed:
If you're flying an electric with Lipo cells, you just build the model (or assemble the model!), and go out and find an appropriate sized Lipo battery and motor.

If you're flying with A123 cells, you pretty much have to start with the A123 cells and motor, and try to find a model to put them in. They only come in one useful size, the 2300 Mah size.

And so as a result, my models go from about a 40 inch wing span with a 4S1P A123 pack, to several 60 inch span models with 6S2P A123 packs to a 78 inch wing span model with a 12S2P A123 pack. Going to a 10S Lipo on the 78 inch model could save a little under a pound of battery weight. But the model will climb out at 60 degrees and keep going out of sight with the 12S2P A123 pack.

Lipos are better than A123 cells in most cases. But the A123 cells have zero fire hazard, and can be charged in 15 minutes inside the model. And I've got three 6S2P A123 packs now on their fourth year of flying, and these cells have the same performance as when they were brand new.

As for Lipo fires, three of my club members have had Lipo fires, one in the living room floor. (The wife got a new living room carpet, and had to bring in the guys to de-stink the house) And all were using chargers designed for charging Lipo batteries.
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Old 05-16-2011, 07:39 AM
  #261  
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Default just look...

http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starst...m_batteri.html
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Old 05-16-2011, 07:50 AM
  #262  
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Default just dream...

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...2007033092.pdf
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Old 05-16-2011, 11:31 AM
  #263  
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Default another way...

I found on Hacker site a nice table...
Depending on model: 3D, Acro, F3A, Sport/scale... you have the weight, the motor (Hacker for sure), the controller, the LiPo (no a123 :-{...
So they would decide for my J3: 8kg, A60-16M... 2170W...
Far too much, but the idea is good.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:01 AM
  #264  
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Let me try again.
Is there a thread for folks that are converting planes from Nitro to Elect.
I have a couple to convert over.
Would like some input.
SARG5
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:10 AM
  #265  
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Originally Posted by SARG5 View Post
Let me try again.
Is there a thread for folks that are converting planes from Nitro to Elect.
I have a couple to convert over.
Would like some input.
SARG5
There must be over 100 threads on this topic. Try some searches using a mix of words like:

Glow to electric
gas to electric
wet to electric
electric conversion

Similar terms. Don't hesitate to ask about the specific plane you are looking to convert. Someone may have done that one already.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:38 AM
  #266  
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hello sarge5, I'll be glad to help anyway i can. all my kits built were glow to electric builds.

some of the kits are...gp300s extra,GP RV 4-40,Sig hog bipe, Sig cobra,tower hobbies uproar,and a few 1/2a's that were supposed to be glow powered...herr Pitts special,Herr j3cub...ect...ect...the list goes on do to an addiction to rc planes.

so,how can i help? by the way,I've done build threads on many of my builds ,so pictures are available.stu
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:49 AM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by SARG5 View Post
Let me try again.
Is there a thread for folks that are converting planes from Nitro to Elect.
I have a couple to convert over.
Would like some input.
SARG5
Here is a good long running thread.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3297
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:55 AM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by SARG5 View Post
Let me try again.
Is there a thread for folks that are converting planes from Nitro to Elect.
I have a couple to convert over.
Would like some input.
SARG5
Yup
Take a look:
Thread on 70 size glow engine conversion to electric<O</O
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45222

And another guy who went the electric route.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44686

I've also got a giant scale model, Extra 330 with a 78 inch wingpspan, 1200 square inches, Hacker A60-16M motor with 19x12 APC-E prop. Batteries are A123 cells, configured as 12S2P. This thing pulls a maximum of 3KW at full throttle. Yesterday, this thing had 5 flights. And those 5 flights pulled 80 Ampere Hours out of my two parallel connected 120 Ampere Hour Deep Cycle batteries during the recharging process.

Other threads indicate you really don't want to pull more than about 50% capacity out of a deep cycle battery for optimum lead acid battery life. So, that is a BIG issue with those giant scale electric models. Unless you have AC power available at your field, anyhow.
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Old 06-07-2011, 01:56 AM
  #269  
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Need all the help that I can get.
SARG5 , Kansas flyer
I am wanting to convert a
SIG KAVALIER 56 in wing. Box says that power .29 to .40 - This was my trainer way back in the middle 70's. Want to give the old lady a new live.
next
ACER WHIZ 40, 70 in wing. Box says 6.75 lbs. Assume that is with the eng. Not sure. This plane has never been flown. Built it back in the 70's.

I hung everything up for about 30+ years. Now flying total Elect. Multiplex. EasyStar, Magister, Crashed the Fun Cub.
What say you to get me started.
It looks like there may be a need to pull as much of the stuff out of the inside of these planes, to get the weight down. Like the fuel tanks. ets.
WHAT SAY YO
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:36 AM
  #270  
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hey Sarge,do you have a link for the acer whiz 40? as far as the kavalier goes its my kind of build...love Sig kits,quality stuff.

a brief look at the instructions show easy conversion. extend the electric motor with spacer mounts. ditch the tank and prep for battery to be slid in when the wing is off. possibly locate the esc in the curved part of that same compartment. drill holes for air circulation in the fire wall and a exit hole some where in the fuse bottom. all my Sig models required pushing weight forward to get cg right without adding lead.

have you chosen the power of the motor and where you hope to buy it,these days cost may be an issue to get that line between quality and cheep$$$

i know a good hobbyking motor/esc combo that flys my RV 4-40 nicely. ,but if you can afford castle creations esc,and eflite motors ...go for it!!!! I'm glad i listened to my friends here at wattflyer when powering up the hog.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:43 AM
  #271  
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acer 40





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Old 06-07-2011, 03:46 AM
  #272  
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on the acer it's even easyer to convert as the nose area lends itself to building a hatch for loadind the battery[or batteries]. i built a mini teleamaster that has a simalar nose and the top loadind battery makes life easy...lol....


as far as the battery install on the kavalier,i would add an arming switck between the esc and battery so it can be plugged in inside the fuse but switched on when your ready to fly.removing the wing to install batteries is a pain.
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Old 06-07-2011, 02:23 PM
  #273  
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Nothing done yet. Got this idea to convert the two planes a couple days ago.
IT IS ALL UP FOR GRABBBBBSSSSS at this point in time. In no hurry.
No , I do not have a www. site for the ACER Whiz 40. I am quite sure this plane is no longer in production , Not even sure about ACER. Just starting to look.
I assume that the first thing to do is strip each plane down as much as possible. Then get a WEIGHT ON THE PLANE. To see where I am. Then try to get the correct
motor and ESC to haul the weight.
I have a spare Turnigy C3548-900 and a GForce 1250. These will swing a 9 to 10 in
e-prop.
I am flying the MULTIPLEX planes with 3C 2100, and 4C 3300 Lipo.
I think that will start with the Sig Kavalier.
Have not checked them as yet. Found www.headsuprc.com in FL. They are easy to work with and their JEFF, is very informative.
ONE BABY STEP AT A TIME.
LETS SEE, Rest of summer. Need to be fishing most of the time. Then there is the camping with my MILITARY FRIENDS. Their National Muster in Sept. that I have to help with, Antique club. Traveling and camping with our Military, and Good Sam folks.
Did not get to go to Canada this summer because of the fuel cost.
ENOUGH.
Oh Yes. The wife of 57 years. Always has something for this old guy 77 old , to do.
SARG5
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:34 PM
  #274  
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Default MM Smoothe - Brushless-Lipo Combo

I would like to put a serious brushless-lipo combo on this plane. What do you guys think. I am going to learn to use Motocalc, but I'm not there yet so thanks in advance for your replies.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:05 AM
  #275  
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Thumbs up hints

Originally Posted by SARG5 View Post
Nothing done yet. Got this idea to convert the two planes a couple days ago.
IT IS ALL UP FOR GRABBBBBSSSSS at this point in time. In no hurry.
No , I do not have a www. site for the ACER Whiz 40. I am quite sure this plane is no longer in production , Not even sure about ACER. Just starting to look.
I assume that the first thing to do is strip each plane down as much as possible. Then get a WEIGHT ON THE PLANE. To see where I am. Then try to get the correct
motor and ESC to haul the weight.
I have a spare Turnigy C3548-900 and a GForce 1250. These will swing a 9 to 10 in
e-prop.
I am flying the MULTIPLEX planes with 3C 2100, and 4C 3300 Lipo.
I think that will start with the Sig Kavalier.
Have not checked them as yet. Found www.headsuprc.com in FL. They are easy to work with and their JEFF, is very informative.
ONE BABY STEP AT A TIME.
LETS SEE, Rest of summer. Need to be fishing most of the time. Then there is the camping with my MILITARY FRIENDS. Their National Muster in Sept. that I have to help with, Antique club. Traveling and camping with our Military, and Good Sam folks.
Did not get to go to Canada this summer because of the fuel cost.
ENOUGH.
Oh Yes. The wife of 57 years. Always has something for this old guy 77 old , to do.
SARG5
I am 67...
Finding the right brushless is not the most difficult task... because you have references...
Balancing a thermic converted to electric raises other problems...
Brushless is much lighter that equivalent thermic, so you have to push battery pack fast forward... sometimes under the hood !
With LiPo, packs are to be removed to be charged... take your saw and make large openings in the fuse...
My approach is the following...
* if size is .60 to .90... 1000W with 6s2p a123
* if more... 2000W 12s2p a123
Then select the best motor for the pack...
a123 solves some problems:
* they do not have to be removed
* they can be placed under the hood if needed
* they are charged in 15 min, one is enough
* they survive any crash (by experience)
ramboman is offline  

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