3D Flying Discuss everything related to "3D" flying including construction, power setups and flying techniques

More money than sense ? Mini Katana from Precision Aerobatics ...

Old 05-04-2015, 08:38 PM
  #26  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Something looks odd to me about those blind nuts... Looks like they are installed from the WRONG SIDE of the plywood.
As JPF says - they are plain nuts and washers ....

There are blind nuts in the bag ... so I may change to them. There's no mention about blind nuts in manual anywhere ...

I managed to get a manual sent to me from PA ... on condition I do not upload or pass on ..... so sorry anyone wanting it ... I'm morally bound to that.

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 05-04-2015, 09:51 PM
  #27  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

Feels light for its size?... don't worry about total weight then. Go fly.
fhhuber is offline  
Old 05-04-2015, 11:05 PM
  #28  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

I was putting info more for others ....

When I read reviews, I'm more interested in the data than the 'opinion' .... especially AUW and motor power / prop used.

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 05-05-2015, 10:16 PM
  #29  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Maiden flight today ...



Next flight will be lighter lipo and CoG back a bit .... see what she does then.

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 06-29-2015, 08:23 AM
  #30  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

So far ... I've been advised to swap prop to 11*4.75SF ....

Can I 3D her ? Not cleanly. She rocks and cavorts instead of being steady.

Motor is more than enough Hyperion 3009.

So I gave her to our resident 3D expert .... even he had trouble,

So discussion led to :

A. Get rid of SF prop .... reverted to 11*5.5E prop. The SF was 'slapping' in manouevres and then losing bite. We may try a 12*6E prop.
B. Add more right thrust as after he trimmed - there was about 3 - 4 degrees right rudder to have straight verticals. Added another degree and now rudder is centered.
C. Push lipo as far fwd as possible as CoG is marginally too far aft. In fact might use slightly larger lipo to get CoG fwd and cover larger prop power demand.

Surface movements are good ... so hopefully we shall then get somewhere.

I cannot understand after this how the videos show her performing incredible 3D ... there must be something wrong or some modification to get that ?

Stock out of box certainly hasn't here even with the better motor.

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 06-29-2015, 09:43 AM
  #31  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

If still experimenting with the props... you could try a deep punt:

One of the glow props APC 12.25X3.75 Considered one of the best for 3D for .46 glow.

Won't have the thin, flexible blade issues of the SF and its a wide flat pitch prop that is great for playing helicopter. Its a pitch/dia combo you can't get in E rated.
fhhuber is offline  
Old 06-29-2015, 12:03 PM
  #32  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Been looking at various props as you say to avoid the flexi SF variety.

The sound of the SF is frightening at times as you hear the slapping sound ...
Tried her with the 11x5.5E of previous with side thrust etc. altered and she was much better ........ but still needs something.
12" with low pitch may just be the ticket ...

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 06-29-2015, 11:49 PM
  #33  
GunnyJeeves
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 311
Default

Generally speaking, to keep similar power to an 11x5, would be a 12x4. That would give more thrust, and lower speed. 12x6 should nail the clean thrust, but take more amps.

I may have just been lucky, but i have read about balancing a 3d plane over several specific flights. Like 45degree up, then kill throttle. Should coast, slow down, then change course by nosing down, repeat inverted climbing at a 45.. Kill throttle and same thing. Then there is a host of other specific moves to nail down the CG in three dimensions.

All mine have been balanced well on all axis. Worst was my Hobbyking Domin8trix, but it just took some fiddling over a few flights.

My motor and battery were out of bounds for that frame. 12x6, and 4s instead of 3s, so I had to move the CG back a ton before it would hold a hover. With the CG foreword it was a freaking missile! Tumbled like a boss, but impossible to hover or harrier. Try moving the CG back so right side up and upside down climbing at 45 give the same glide slope. If they do, your problem is elsewhere, if not, adjust until they do. (Symmetrical airfoil should be the same efficiency either way.)
GunnyJeeves is offline  
Old 06-30-2015, 01:32 PM
  #34  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

I've now fitted a 12x6 APC and will test her on that ... given the size of LiPo / ESC in her and run-time is more than I usually fly - I'm not so worried about amps.
What I want to get to is serious 3D capability ... which out of box even Uldis ... a very good 3D pilot could not achieve.

Here's example of him just having some freestyle fun with a Krill Extra ...



I have various props on order to see what will give solution ...
I'm also sorting my Extra 300 ...
Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-01-2015, 01:10 PM
  #35  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Here's videos of her up to change of prop ...........



Uldis recc'd changes to prop, increased right side thrust and pushing CoG fwd ... made her better but still need thrust ..



Still to test with the 12x6 ..............

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-02-2015, 09:15 AM
  #36  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Here with 12x6 APC and short test at end with Gyro Stabiliser ..............



Definite improvement but maybe pitch is too high ... makes throttle super sensitive ... one click and changes from barely hovering to zooming skyward !

The gyro was a surprise ... I expected more and was ready for a 'fight' but no - it was real smooth ... the second landing is with gyro full on ... what a dream and wind was gusty ... 3 to 7m/s variable ... but looked so steady.

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-02-2015, 09:51 AM
  #37  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

Closing in on the solution...

Change one thing at a time or you don't really know which change did what. You could have one change that makes stuff better combined with another that makes things worse and think: "well that was definitely wrong" then eliminate the thing that worked from future trials...
fhhuber is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 10:57 AM
  #38  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Closing in on the solution...

Change one thing at a time or you don't really know which change did what. You could have one change that makes stuff better combined with another that makes things worse and think: "well that was definitely wrong" then eliminate the thing that worked from future trials...
Absolutely.

The gyro is switchable so that's under control ....

The only change this time was the prop and boy what a difference. But as said - I need to sort the fineness of throttle around that hover setting ... either by reducing pitch or expo.

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-02-2015, 12:46 PM
  #39  
JetPlaneFlyer
Super Contributor
 
JetPlaneFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 6,120
Default

I use a throttle curve on my 3D models to give a more linear response around the hover point. That usually takes the form of a curve that 'humps up' in the middle.

A standard linear throttle curve on electric power tends to give you hardly any power up to mid stick with the power coming in a rush over the last third of travel, which makes stable hovering more tricky.
JetPlaneFlyer is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 01:19 PM
  #40  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

That's what I was thinking about.

A curve or expo ... I'll look to see which is easier to introduce ... I still have to admit that er9x has me scratching head at times ... especially when it gets to curves.
I must get my later er9x manual out again !!

Luckily the latest er9x has a re-written manual for it ...

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-02-2015, 03:57 PM
  #41  
GunnyJeeves
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 311
Default

Grrr... I think this solution will fix a couple of my planes too.

Expo on throttle will work if the hover point is about 50%, but if it's much higher or lower! that won't cut it.

You say you have a 9x is it a TH-9X or a Turnigy 9XR? If the TH-9X is flashed, or on the 9XR I can help, but an un flashed TH-9X with factory firmware I think you need to use a 90degree heli model to access the curves. Good part of that will be that the throttle curve is set.

The curve should be 0 at bottom, if you hover at say 65%, then say 50% at the 25 mark, 65 at mid stick, 80 at the 75 and 100 at max.

That will make you have quite a lot of control around the hover point. To make it softer, go to 60, 65, 70. (Closer to the hover point.)

If you use ER9X or opentx (flashed 9x or Turnigy 9XR) you just define curve1 and in the mixer on throttle source, select curve 1.

Good luck!
GunnyJeeves is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 03:59 PM
  #42  
GunnyJeeves
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 311
Default

That's going to help a ton with harriers and all high alpha moves too... Man I think I am gonna do some reprogramming this summer.
GunnyJeeves is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 06:37 PM
  #43  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Originally Posted by GunnyJeeves View Post
Grrr... I think this solution will fix a couple of my planes too.

Expo on throttle will work if the hover point is about 50%, but if it's much higher or lower! that won't cut it.

You say you have a 9x is it a TH-9X or a Turnigy 9XR? If the TH-9X is flashed, or on the 9XR I can help, but an un flashed TH-9X with factory firmware I think you need to use a 90degree heli model to access the curves. Good part of that will be that the throttle curve is set.

The curve should be 0 at bottom, if you hover at say 65%, then say 50% at the 25 mark, 65 at mid stick, 80 at the 75 and 100 at max.

That will make you have quite a lot of control around the hover point. To make it softer, go to 60, 65, 70. (Closer to the hover point.)

If you use ER9X or opentx (flashed 9x or Turnigy 9XR) you just define curve1 and in the mixer on throttle source, select curve 1.

Good luck!
Now this will get you going ....

I have two 9x radios ............. all original FlySky FW (makes no odds whether Turnigy of FS TH - they have identical FW - ignore the crap from HK ... its FlySky ....).

I have three 9xr's .... all reflashed to latest er9x ... one is my SIM Tx ... one is my spare Heli Tx ... third is the usual flying one I use ... and is the one in question here.

I've put 45% expo on the throttle equal sides of mid point ... don't forget that er9x allows you to define different expo amounts either side of the mid point ... so in fact a curve is not really needed unless substantially away from the 50% point for hover. In fact you can have opposite expo each side if you want ...

In curves .... why stick with a 5 pointer ... you also have 9 pointers if you want real curve control.

I've also just fitted a P1 gyro to my Hummer for testing ... see what happens ... just out of interest. I will also dial in some throttle control on that one as well ...

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-02-2015, 06:39 PM
  #44  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Originally Posted by GunnyJeeves View Post
That's going to help a ton with harriers and all high alpha moves too... Man I think I am gonna do some reprogramming this summer.
Glad I'm not only one !!

Post up findings ... please.

Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-02-2015, 08:39 PM
  #45  
Romans5.8
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 64
Default

Originally Posted by GunnyJeeves View Post
Well I am getting rid of 4 of mine... Trading for a 300cfx.

They were retired aircraft anyway...
FOUR wives for a 300cfx!? What a deal!

Romans5.8 is offline  
Old 07-02-2015, 09:00 PM
  #46  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Just for peoples ideas ... I now have dialled on a throttle curve (9 point curve)
-100
-50
-22
-11
0
+11
+25
+50
+100
this gives me an extended range for sensitivity over the approach to hover and just past it throttle range.
I was finding the one or two clicks throttle difference hover to zooming skywards too coarse... I hope this will help.

I did do it with expo ... but then decided why not have a curve ...

nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-04-2015, 01:04 PM
  #47  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Here you see tests with Gyro stab ... and the flutter when gain is much too high for speed ..... slow down and fine ... speed up and she flaps wings !!



Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-04-2015, 04:56 PM
  #48  
GunnyJeeves
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 311
Default

If the gain is adjustable on the TX you can mix it to throttle like using another curve. Keep it high in the hover point, low near max and probably low at zero. (Landings)

The MotionRC gyro will make it nearly effortless (even does hover assist as well as aggressive HH on all axis.) think it is a Hobby Eagle
GunnyJeeves is offline  
Old 07-06-2015, 01:05 PM
  #49  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Well I took a risk and put a small battery in .... risking CoG aft.

Well what a surprise .... she is halfway there now - the other half is ME !

Video on 'solentlifeuk' .... I'm in airport on way to Dubai and not see easy on tab to link URLs ....

Cheers
Nigel
solentlife is online now  
Old 07-12-2015, 06:08 PM
  #50  
solentlife
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,311
Default

Here's a video with testing a SF prop ... 12x4.5 ...and Gyro ... and small LiPo ...



Nigel
solentlife is online now  

Quick Reply: More money than sense ? Mini Katana from Precision Aerobatics ...


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.12022 seconds with 12 queries