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Ailerons only for big HP-0400

Old 07-17-2018, 03:22 PM
  #1  
Griff Murphey
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Default Ailerons only for big HP-0400

I’m actually thinking of doing the 1/32 37.5” Span “Bloody Paralyzer” off of Cleveland plans I have had for many years, which to me as a park flyer guy is a big model. It actually has three rudders and I guess you could in theory figure out how to actuate all three or you could just use the midline one.

Another fantasy build would be the 1920’s 30’s Martin MB-2 which has two rudders. Again just wondering how would either model turn with ailerons only?
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:58 PM
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quorneng
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Griff
As a firm believer in 'bank and yank' for scale planes the trick is to use differential ailerons and in the case of the 0/400 close to 100% differential. In other words the ailerons only move up! The object being to arrange that the drag of the up aileron produces a yaw free turn as if rudder had been used.
Such a set up does limit aerobatics and negates inverted flight but not really a big issue on an 0/400.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:58 AM
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Griff Murphey
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I never heard of differential ailerons! How would you set that up?
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:55 AM
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quorneng
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Griff
The simplest way is to set it up on the transmitter if it has the capability. Each aileron is set on its own channel (dual ail) and differential percentage is then set. This usually can be set negative or positive so make sure it is working the right way - more up than down.
Another way is to set it up mechanically so that for full servo travel the linkage gives the aileron more up than down movement.
In a twin servo set up the simplest way to achieve this is to set the servo arm when at neutral at say a 45 degree angle forward.
With both ailerons using a single central servo the setup is a bit more complex but the principle is the same.
The advantage of using mechanical differential is that as far as the transmitter is concerned both ailerons can be on the same channel.

A diagram would help but at the moment this site does not allow any pictures to be down loaded!!
Google "differential ailerons" will show the sort of linkage geometry required.
I put mechanical aileron differential on most of my planes as a matter of course as it reduces the tendency to enter a spin when flying slow and low!
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Old 07-21-2018, 02:05 PM
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Thanks hopefully the photo issue will be resolved...
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:33 PM
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ron_van_sommeren
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Originally Posted by Griff Murphey View Post
I never heard of differential ailerons! How would you set that up?
Offset your servo horn, or, just the other way around, your aileron horn(s).

Picture, 45° offset. Shown are neutral, full throw left, and right:
www.modelbouwforum.nl/media/rolroer_differentiëring.99136

This will give you a 1:4 differential.
More than a 45° offset will give you very interesting effects
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:33 AM
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A photo of an actual installation might help me visualize this. I will need some real help trying to "make this fly..."

Thanks!
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:00 PM
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ron_van_sommeren
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Alas, no photo/video. No need for it either, just hook up a servo with offset horn and control wire on your bench and see what happens.
In fact, on your bench you don't have to offset the horn, just deflect the wire.
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:08 PM
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Griff Murphey
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Thanks, I build simple 3 ch. stick and tissues basically never have used ailerons I think I can get some help from the local RC shop. My other strong candidates would be the Martin MB-2 or even the Gotha G-IV.

Last edited by Griff Murphey; 07-23-2018 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:44 PM
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Griff
Still no pictures so this video, showing the underside of a wing, with an aileron servo linkage that gives more "up" movement than "down". This has been achieved by setting the servo arm about 45 degrees forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVfBfWjH-s0
Notice that as the servo arm 'disappears' under the wing skin a 'bent' servo link has to be used.
The wing is from a 'bank and yank' plane that has no rudder.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:26 AM
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Griff Murphey
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Thanks
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:28 AM
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At last we have pictures again!
A diagram of the geometry for a 'mechanical' differential aileron set up for a dual servos installation.
Name:  Differential.jpg
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Size:  37.6 KB
With the servo arm at 45 degrees angled forward the aileron movement is about twice up than down for the same degree of servo arm rotation.
The same effect can be achieved by angling the aileron horn back wards.

Such a set up does require careful set up but it does give differential movement with ailerons using a single channel.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:22 PM
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Griff Murphey
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ACH, so!
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:50 PM
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Griff
If you get (buy) 'Rise Of Flight' there are a number of WWI planes available including a HP 0400.
Name:  HP400.jpg
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Staggeringly detailed with all the rigging. I have only just noticed the folding hinge on the trailing edge is depicted that allowed the wings to fold backwards.

I don't know how realistic the flight engine really is but certainly demonstrates vicious adverse aileron yaw requiring a boot full of rudder to initiate anything like a 'neutral' turn.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:15 PM
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Griff Murphey
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I confess I have watched a number of youtubes of Rise of Flight and it does seem fascinating. I know very little about modern video war gaming but I have to hand it to whoever designed that it sure does seem well done.
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