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"T-Hawk" VS "Super Cub for 1st Plane - yet more thoughts

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"T-Hawk" VS "Super Cub for 1st Plane - yet more thoughts

Old 12-13-2006, 02:08 AM
  #1  
The_Rookie
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Lightbulb "T-Hawk" VS "Super Cub for 1st Plane - yet more thoughts

What's the sound of someone beating a dead horse?

To recap, I am about to buy my first "real plane" and I've been reading, posting, and bugging people about their thoughts on a number of planes.

The "T-Hawk" from ReadyToFlyFun and the "Super Cub" from HobbyZone.

Many, many people on this great forum love and swear by the Super Cub, and while no one has anything but good things to say about the T-Hawk, it seems that most lean towards the Super Cub.

In my mind, the biggest draw-back to the T-Hawk is the fact that you can only buy it online, and only get spares online. Granted, the T-Hawk already comes with a number of spare parts, and it seems (based on reading) to be rather a strong plane made for the beginner, if you add the "Training wing" to the mix - wow!

The Super Cub can be bought at the LHS (Local Hobby Store - took me like a week to figure out what LHS meant), and spare parts are fairly cheap and available. Plus, it looks "scale" which adds to the coolness factor.

I hope it is OK to do so on this forum - Below please see an email Thread between myself and John from ReadyToFlyFun. You will notice that he does not comment or do any bashing of other planes - so here's a bit of info... (Emails in next post)
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:18 AM
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From: Peter
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: Questions, many questions...

Hello,

I have read many, many great things about the "T Hawk"!

I am looking for my first "Real" RC Trainer, and have narrowed the field to a few.

The T Hawk - add a third battery and possibly the trainer wing

The HobbyZone Areobird Challenger - add spare parts, batteries, and A/C charger

The HobbyZone Super Cub - add spare parts, batteries, and A/C charger

And now am wondering about your "SkySeeker GT".

A few facts about me:

44yr old kid

Have a clear area 250' X 280' at home, or open fields within 2-3 miles of home. (would love to be able to fly at home).
Am playing with an AreoAce Jet currently (after killing in 10 minutes a Megatech Night Flyer)


First question? Which do you suggest - the T Hawk or the SkySeeker GT? First plane, slowest flyer, highest chance of success, lowest chance of damage (non-repairable)???

On the website it is a bit confusing to me - seems like either bird is a great trainer? If so - what are the differences between them?

I realize that you will lean towards your own products ) But, why choose one of yours over the Challenger or the Super Cub (from a LHS)?

I am planning to buy in the next two weeks (Christmas bonus time).

I guess the main points (for me) - can any of the above be flown at home, or must I find a larger flying area always? The cost of shipping (both the first buy, and parts replacements as needed) VS the ability to drive to the LHS to get the plane - and then spare parts?

In your opinion, is the quality of your products and the ease of their use worth the extra hassle of shipping, and then waiting for spares when/if needed?

On the internet (and I read a LOT) - the ONLY downside to your products is buying online only, and the 27MHZ radio.

Which leads me to this question?

Glitching and a 27MHZ radio? All the planes listed above are on 27 - is this a great concern? On the web - some people say "any plane on 27MHZ is a toy" - you need to get a 72MHZ radio if you are serious. Thoughts?

Yes, I know that the HobbyZone planes use non-standard parts - but, if that first plane is a joy - why would anyone wish to strip parts to put in another plane? Many still fly their first plane on a regular basis for fun (I read).

I have called your customer service once a few days back and spoke for some time about the T Bird. A very nice gentleman! I fear I took a lot of his time, but I tend to do too much research (at times) or I do none (like with the Megatech plane)...

Hope to hear from you soon!

Peter

I did not get a reply, so I sent this...


From: Peter
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Questions, many questions...

Hello,

I sent this email back on 12/06, got an auto-reply back stating I ought to get a reply within 2 days. As of this writing I have received no reply

I find this rather discouraging...

Is this the norm, or the exception?

Peter


I got this reply...

From: John
To: Peter
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Questions, many questions...

Sorry you did not get the reply of 12/6. Here it is again.

John
Customer Service
www.ReadyToFlyFun.com


----- Original Message -----
From: John
To: Peter
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: Questions, many questions...

Thank you for your interest in our products.

Both the T-HAWK and SkySeeker are good beginner or trainer airplanes. Although not indestructible, both planes are very durable. They share most of the internal components and are made out of the same materials. You do not have to buy an entire fuselage assembly to replace one component. All of the parts are available individually making them easy and inexpensive to maintain. Our airplanes use industry standard electronic components and are compatible with Hitec, JR, GWS, Airtronics-Z and Futaba-J radio sets.

The T-HAWK is faster and can fly in a 15 mph breeze. Flight times are about 12 to 15 minutes with the NiMH battery packs. The T-HAWK training wing adds lift and it slows the plane down. Also, the T-HAWK with the training wing will not be able to fly in as stiff breeze. With three wing options, two motor options and two landing gear options, the T-HAWK has more versatility.

SkySeeker powered flight time is about 8 to 10 minutes. Since the SkySeeker is a better glider, it can fly slower and have longer total flight times. It flies in breezes up to 10 mph.

Although your flying field may be sufficient, you may want to go to a larger field. The radio sets range is about 2000 ft. Visual range is about 600-800 feet. You could easily be flying over someone else's house or yard. If your plane goes down in your neighbor's yard, his guard dog may not let you have it back!

We are a mail order and internet retailer. We do not maintain brick-and-mortar stores. We do not have any dealers. You can order 24/7 by mail at the address below, by phone or fax at the numbers below or through the internet at our web site www.ReadyToFlyFun.com. We ship using the United States Postal Service's Priority mail unless you request Express Mail Delivery. There is a premium for Express Mail delivery. The postal service anticipates that delivery time for priority mail is 2 to 3 postal delivery days to most parts of the country. You could order on Sunday at 11 PM in your pajamas and have our top quality product at your door step as early as Wednesday morning. That's not a hassle, that's convenience.

There are six sub frequencies or channels of 27 MHz allowed for RC cars, boats and airplanes. 72 MHz is also available for RC. There are many more channels available in 72 MHz and they are reserved for RC airplanes only. It is possible to have interference from a variety of sources on any radio frequency. A small amount of interference is not unusual, but it should not be so much as to make it difficult to control the airplane. Interference can vary with location and time of day. Our radio sets are hobby quality. The range of the radio sets is about 2000 feet.

I hope that this is the information that you were looking for.

Again, thank you for your interest in our products.

Sincerely,

John
Customer Service
www.ReadyToFlyFun.com
3370 N Hayden Rd #123-296
Scottsdale, AZ 85251-6632
Tel: 480-994-4344
Fax: 480-626-2638



Then my reply...

From: Peter
To: John
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: Questions, many questions...

John,

Thank you for your quick reply!

I am sorry that I did not somehow get your reply from the 6th

Thank you for all the info to help me decide between the two planes.

I guess I'll need to do some coin-flipping to decide between the T-Hawk and the Super Cub (mail order VS LHS)

One question though, is there much need/desire to do a motor upgrade for a beginner on the T-Hawk, or would you say that is more for down-the-road?

Last question if I may?

If I order the T-Hawk, and choose to "add the heavy-duty landing gear" - will that come as WELL as the standard gear, or will it simply REPLACE the standard gear?

If I want both sets, would I be better to order the plane with the standard gear, then order the heavy-duty gear along with the trainer-wing?

CHEERS!

Peter


And lastly, John's reply...

From: John
To: Peter
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Questions, many questions...

Again, thank you for your interest in our products.

The 380 motor is part of the original design of the T-HAWK. It has plenty of power to learn to fly. It is what most of the flyers in the testimonials on our web site used in their T-HAWKs. The 480 motor is a "Hop-up" option. It adds power and speed to the T-HAWK for those who want it.

The heavy duty landing gear is an add-on option to the T-HAWK Extreme Value package. The package includes the light duty landing gear. If you select the heavy duty landing gear option you will receive both landing gear sets.

I hope that this is the information that you were looking for.

Sincerely,

John
Customer Service
www.ReadyToFlyFun.com


Anyhow, more info for those trying to decide which plane to buy...
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:04 AM
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I still say Super Cub ... but then, I bet you already could have guessed that.

Just FYI, the Super Cub's stock motor is a 480. It's cheaper than the T-Hawk, scale looking (if that's of any sort of importance ... it isn't to a lot of folks), has a bigger wingspan, comes with a free battery and free shipping if you buy it from www.hobbyzone.com, has the X-Port which can be a lot of fun with some of the available accessories, and has parts you can buy locally and be up flying again on the same day if you crash. It also comes with an AC charger, albeit it one that takes a couple of hours to fully charge a battery instead of around one hour like the DC charger. But it comes with both, so at least you can charge two batteries at once right off the bat.

Unless you just really like pod/boom planes, I think the Super Cub wins over in spades.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:49 AM
  #4  
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I am a beginner too and struggling with exactly the same decision, SuperCub or T-Hawk. There are obvious pros and cons to both but I think both are great first planes. I am probably going to buy the SuperCub from a local hobby shop. One big reason is that my Dad gave me a Sig LT-40 gas trainer kit that I haven't built and the hobby shop is willing to give me $90 for it as a trade on the Super Cub. Although I do think the T-hawk is a little more durable just because of the prop being rear mounted and it being better in slightly higher winds.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:10 AM
  #5  
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The prop placement really has a negilible effect on durability, so don't let that affect your decision one way or another on that basis. With the increased motor, wingspan, and weight, I would think the Super Cub would handle higher winds a bit better, too. I'd leave that up to someone who has flown both to actually comment on factually, but I'd be suprised to see it outhandle the Super Cub in higher winds by any noticeable margin, if at all.

Not to say that the T-Hawk won't be great to learn on. I just hate seeing people rule out options because of things that are really non-factors.

Last edited by PerlAddict; 12-13-2006 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:47 PM
  #6  
The_Rookie
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
I still say Super Cub ... but then, I bet you already could have guessed that.

Just FYI, the Super Cub's stock motor is a 480. It's cheaper than the T-Hawk, scale looking (if that's of any sort of importance ... it isn't to a lot of folks), has a bigger wingspan, comes with a free battery and free shipping if you buy it from www.hobbyzone.com, has the X-Port which can be a lot of fun with some of the available accessories, and has parts you can buy locally and be up flying again on the same day if you crash. It also comes with an AC charger, albeit it one that takes a couple of hours to fully charge a battery instead of around one hour like the DC charger. But it comes with both, so at least you can charge two batteries at once right off the bat.

Unless you just really like pod/boom planes, I think the Super Cub wins over in spades.
I don't want to start a debate or anything (since I do not even own either plane yet) but...

True the Super Cub's moter is a "480" - not really relevant as it is "gear-reduced" whereas the stock "380" motor of the T-Hawk is not.

If you check out what you get in this package, you will see that while the cost IS $10 bucks more than the Super Cub, you do get two batteries, a charger that is both A/C and D/C - and when you realize they send you a spare wing, and a full set of tail-feathers, the T-Hawk becomes cheaper than the Super Cub (also shipping is free on orders over $150.

In another thread I belive someone mentioned it was Coke VS Pepsi - or as I like to say - perhaps this is like two guys argueing over which is the better car, a Ford or a Chevy?
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
The prop placement really has a negilible effect on durability, so don't let that affect your decision one way or another on that basis. With the increased motor, wingspan, and weight, I would think the Super Cub would handle higher winds a bit better, too. I'd leave that up to someone who has flown both to actually comment on factually, but I'd be suprised to see it outhandle the Super Cub in higher winds by any noticeable margin, if at all.

Not to say that the T-Hawk won't be great to learn on. I just hate seeing people rule out options because of things that are really non-factors.

One point (and could some of the "pros" comment please) about prop placement - it is ONLY negilible if the flyer does not tend to nose in often (if at all) - a rough nose in (so I read) can damage a prop and/or a shaft. On a "pusher" type plane like the T Hawk, this is a non-issue.

I do agree, it would be great if we got some folks that have flown/owned both to comment on this thread!
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:36 PM
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I didn't realize the T-Hawk came with a spare wing, though I don't think that's a big concern as I've run my Super Cub into a tree and another Super Cub mid-air in direct wing-strikes and have yet to need to replace it. The wing is much thicker than the T-Hawk's, but free spares are always nice. I believe the only spare the Cub comes with is a spare prop. I do think it's neat how there are a number of drop-in replacements for different wing types on the T-Hawk.

You're right, the T-Hawk's isn't gear-reduced. I missed that.

If you check out what you get in this package, you will see that while the cost IS $10 bucks more than the Super Cub, you do get two batteries, a charger that is both A/C and D/C - and when you realize they send you a spare wing, and a full set of tail-feathers, the T-Hawk becomes cheaper than the Super Cub (also shipping is free on orders over $150.
You realize that you get two batteries with the Cub, as well as two chargers (one AC and one DC) instead of just a dual AC/DC charger, right? Just in case you missed that, as I didn't realize the AC charger was included the first time I looked at it.

The whole "pusher-prop is more durable" thing is a bit of a misconception. If you're smacking the ground hard enough nose-first to break your prop or the shaft, then you're gonna to smack it hard enough to have to fix up that front fuselage on a pusher-prop, which is also where all the electronics reside. I've only been flying about 6 months, so I wouldn't consider myself a "pro" by any means, but I've watched a couple of Super Cub's smack concrete with their props on touch-and-go's several dozen times over with the same props. The props have a decent bit of flex in them, and I can vouch pretty heavily for their durability.

I'm not saying pusher-props are bad at all, and I'm not "arguing" with you about what to get. As long as you're in the air, you'll be happy. I just want you to be able to make an informed decision, and I think you've picked up a couple of ideas here and there that sound good on paper but don't hold very true once you're out in the air; mostly that you don't need to be worried about the durability of a plane with a front prop. If you're hitting hard enough to break something, something will break. Whether that's your prop, your nose, your wing, etc. ... whatever's in that spot that impacts hard enough is likely gonna get some sort of a beating. =)

Aerodynamics and durability aside, I think you've already identified what I would consider as one of the biggest factors: "which one can I get parts for locally." If you do smack your prop hard enough that you need a new one, you can always go down to the LHS and buy one for $4, or a new prop shaft for $2, and be back flying in a matter of minutes. If you break anything on that T-Hawk, you're out for a minimum of a couple of days, plus the costs of shipping parts.

I admittedly didn't factor that part into the equation when I bought my planes, but it's something that was impressed upon me heavily when deciding whether or not to get a Blade CP or Honeybee when I was looking at helis.

Last edited by PerlAddict; 12-13-2006 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:05 PM
  #9  
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A total rookie here with a SC. Admittedly, I would have to rate myself on the slow side of the learning curve. My SC is my first ever rc anything. I have four flight sessions under my belt, and have crashed the plane in almost every way imagineable. Each flight session has terminated when the plane is no longer fliable, requiring a trip to the LHS (just learned what this meant, thanks Peter). Last trip was two days ago - the owner said "See ya tomorrow"!! I am now on 5-min epoxy's frequent flyer program; but (8) props, (2) sets wing struts, (1) tail assy., and CA/epoxy later, the plane is still flyable. Add to this the extra batt., and I figure I have spent around $80 in repairs and extras.

Now, if I had to do it again, I think I would have foresaken the cool scale-model look and started out with something having a little higher "bounce factor" like the T-Hawk. Every SC thread I have participated in consistently speaks of prop loss - I est I have spent $30 so far in props alone.

But, I do like the look of my SC with the bad repairs (I'm a mess with glue) - kind of looks like something cobbled together by some grizzled ole bush pilot from Australia.

Anyway, just thought I would add my experience to the mix.

Hope this helps someone.

Steve
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:17 PM
  #10  
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Ouch, Steve! Your Super Cub luck sounds about like my luck with the J-3 ... I've probably spent three times as much as the plane originally costed just fixing the thing every time it bit the bullet on a hard crash.

Just curious - are you using ACT? What kind of surfance are you flying over? Hand launching or rolling off the ground (ROG)?

Someone really should start an "abbrevations dictionary" thread and sticky it. It took me quite a few days to finally figure out what LHS meant, and I gave up on ROG and WOT and finally just asked somebody. lol.

Did you screw up your battery, or just buy an extra one? If you buy these planes at the LHS, they usually don't have the free secondary battery offer. HobbyZone.com does, but I prefer the 8-cell batteries over the 7-cell ones that come with the SC anyway, so I bought mine at my local shop. Oddly enough, the 8-cell battery sells for less than $20 at my shop, while the regular, lower-power battery is five dollars more. Kinda weird, but I'm not gonna complain.
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:54 PM
  #11  
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Hi, Dave, actually, as funny as it sounds, I think I have had better success with ACT off. I think I have more control, and the majority of my crashes would not have been better served by ACT anyway, because they occur near the ground, and not necessarily under power or uncontrolled dives. And, I think it has shut power at times I actually wanted it. I'm really okay in the air, but I seem to panic when I get close to the ground. There have been several low-altitude stalls that have done me in.

All of my launches have been of the hand variety, over a well-mowed grassy area - although the area is a bit small, and I have ill-advisedly flown in windy conditions. In fact, I have removed the landing gear, the tube thingy on the batt comp door, and cut off the rear gear to facilitate smooth belly landings without tearing things up. My plan is, when I get better (LOL), to restore the main gear, replace the tail assy with new tail gear, and take up ROG (thanks for letting me know what that means).

Yeah, I didn't want to wait for the plane from Hobbyzone (the deal with the free batt) so I just bought an extra one at LHS (man I gettin good!!) - nothing wrong with the one that came with the plane. And, how about the price on the stronger batt being lower than the other?? But, I figure right now extra power would not be my friend!!

Thanks for getting back.

Steve
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:07 PM
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Most people do seem to prefer having ACT off, as it can be glitchy and cause a crash if you're under a hundred feet or so. I was just curious if you might have been another victim of it taking away control from you and smacking your plane into the dirt. =)

I bet taking that gear off has really helped with cartwheels in the grass. Those little foam wheels just can't handle much height. I don't have any planes with bigger wheels, so all mine pretty much do the nose-over dance if I land in grass. Just FYI, that little tube you cut off the battery door is what the X-Port modules clip onto if you ever decide to use them. That door is like a buck, so not a big deal, but just in case you didn't know what it was there for. =)

I kinda thought the same thing you did about "I don't need any more power" at first. But then Dad bought the bigger battery for his SC, and more than anything, it saved him from a lot of low-level stalls. His first week of flying, he had a tendency to overcorrect pretty badly, and when he did, he'd get spooked and jerk back on the stick and crank the throttle to try and get out of trouble. Naturally this just stalled him out, but with the bigger battery, he actually managed to get his nose forward again and get a little airspeed up much faster.

It didn't save him every time, but I've seen him go near-vertical at about 10 feet a few times and still manage to miss the ground.

Once you get a better feel for the two batteries you have right now, try out that 8-cell for your third one. I did a lot of reading before I bought Dad his Super Cub, and the 8-cell battery seemed to be the biggest "cheap" upgrade everyone recommended getting. Since it's less than the regular battery at my LHS, it worked well, because I would've been too cheap to buy the higher priced one anyway. lol.

Good luck with it all! I know what it's like to feel like you just can't win for losing with a plane, but as long as you're still having fun, that's all that counts. And there will always be more planes. *looks at empty wallet*

Always.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
Ouch, Steve! Your Super Cub luck sounds about like my luck with the J-3 ... I've probably spent three times as much as the plane originally costed just fixing the thing every time it bit the bullet on a hard crash.

Just curious - are you using ACT? What kind of surfance are you flying over? Hand launching or rolling off the ground (ROG)?

Someone really should start an "abbrevations dictionary" thread and sticky it. It took me quite a few days to finally figure out what LHS meant, and I gave up on ROG and WOT and finally just asked somebody. lol.
Did you screw up your battery, or just buy an extra one? If you buy these planes at the LHS, they usually don't have the free secondary battery offer. HobbyZone.com does, but I prefer the 8-cell batteries over the 7-cell ones that come with the SC anyway, so I bought mine at my local shop. Oddly enough, the 8-cell battery sells for less than $20 at my shop, while the regular, lower-power battery is five dollars more. Kinda weird, but I'm not gonna complain.
My thoughts exactly a few months ago. Here's a link:

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6623
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:04 PM
  #14  
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Tom's always two steps ahead of me. =D I think the term that took me the longest was BIPE. Though I still haven't figured out all those lipo abbrevations since I haven't actually used any lipo's yet.

There are days when I feel like a teenager who just got introduced to AOL chatting for the first time.
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Old 12-19-2006, 11:28 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post

The whole "pusher-prop is more durable" thing is a bit of a misconception. If you're smacking the ground hard enough nose-first to break your prop or the shaft, then you're gonna to smack it hard enough to have to fix up that front fuselage on a pusher-prop, which is also where all the electronics reside. I've only been flying about 6 months, so I wouldn't consider myself a "pro" by any means, but I've watched a couple of Super Cub's smack concrete with their props on touch-and-go's several dozen times over with the same props. The props have a decent bit of flex in them, and I can vouch pretty heavily for their durability.
I must disagree with this, my freind had a t-hawk, he steped on the wing (mistake #1) and a crak apered on it, he decided to fly with it anyways (mistake #2) so up he went, at about 20m up the wing snaped in half and the plane went nose down and dived for the ground.
My freind left the throttle on full (mistake#3) and the plane hit the ground.
Amazing thing is, the only thing that broke was the wing, which was his own fault for steping on it (see mistake #1).

Now thats durability for you!!!!
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Old 12-21-2006, 05:06 AM
  #16  
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It happens. My wife went straight down from 100' and didn't hurt the prop one bit. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you get spare parts.
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Old 12-30-2006, 05:28 AM
  #17  
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Rookie, What did you buy?
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Old 10-09-2010, 02:10 AM
  #18  
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Go with the SC then upgrade it as you get better or go in & do it right out of the Gate & have a serious Plane Brushless, Fast & easy to get parts for @ most LHS...?

Good luck
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