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GWS Slow Stick Question???

Old 08-17-2005, 01:55 AM
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rtmiller
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Default GWS Slow Stick Question???

I just bought a GWS Slow Stick with the EPS-400 Motor I was wondering if a 3 cell lipo would be to much for this motor or should I just stick with a 2 cell lipo GWS Slow Stick Park Flyer EP ARF w/EPS-400C/BB 46.3"




Thanks
Randy
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:56 AM
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EpoweredRc
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Originally Posted by rtmiller
I just bought a GWS Slow Stick with the EPS-400 Motor I was wondering if a 3 cell lipo would be to much for this motor or should I just stick with a 2 cell lipo GWS Slow Stick Park Flyer EP ARF w/EPS-400C/BB 46.3"

Thanks
Randy
Think about it this way in a car most the time it will go faster then the Speed limit but you have a pedel to keep you going the speed limit so on a plane you have a throttle you dont have to go to FT unless you need to in wind or something, use a 3 cell to get max proforamce but you dont have to use it all,fly slower with the 3 cell and you will get longer flights.
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:33 PM
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t. edwards
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I've used a 3s 1500mah kokam lipo with the stock 400 motor/prop/gearbox and it works very well. Nice performance boost. You should use some of the excess foam from the kit and glue a strip over the wing fold instead of just taping it. Then take some more scrap and use it to increase the height of the rudder (the part that moves). Will increase rudder effectiveness. No cost mods that make a big difference.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:07 PM
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rtmiller
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Thanks for the info!!!! I was not 100% sure what to do. Even though if the motor burns up your only out 5 or 10$$. Any idea's on a speed controller?? I have a Great Planes ElectricFly C-12 Will this work or should I go a little bigger??? I will be using a 3 cell 1500mah lipo.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:24 PM
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t. edwards
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I assume the c-12 esc is 12 amps continuous. Should be enough. I used a Castle Creations Pixie 20 but only because their next smaller is 7 amps. Motor life should not be a problem.
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Old 08-18-2005, 08:45 PM
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Just rember if the ESC doen't detect lipos, you need to watch your flying time. I used 2s 1500maH on the 350 setup. And I am trying to get the right prop for my brushless.
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Old 08-20-2005, 01:51 AM
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PHIL I.
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Lightbulb Idea.....



I do a water breakin on all my brushed motors. I get a lot longer life and more power from my motors!

Its easy to do! Take a AA battery. A glass of water. Do NOT oil the motor. Put a small drop of dish soap on the glass. Put the motor in the water and run for 10 min. Check to see if the brushes are in full contact.. IF not, run 2-3 more min. Dry throughly, can spray with brake clean, oil motor and gear drive bushings and put a very little bit of lithium grease on the gears, making sure all works freely, no binding, and go FLY......


PHIL I.
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Old 08-21-2005, 03:18 AM
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Although plenty of folks do it, it's not a good idea to fly with a 3S lipo without a proper ESC that has Low Voltage Cutoff (LVC). I would go with the CC20 ESC.
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Old 08-26-2005, 04:38 AM
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Just a note of caution about 3S on a S400 motor....
My sig below was inspired by a friend flying a delta with S400 motor and a 3S 1800 for the first time. All was well for 3 minutes, then a smoke trail developed followed by a terminal dive.

On inspection, we found that the motor wire insulation couldn't take the heat, and had let the windings short circuit. This overloaded the ESC which fried, cutting all power. A very smelly and nasty experience.

Adrian.
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Old 08-26-2005, 05:21 AM
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Maximum allowable input voltage on that motor is 9.6 volts. A freshly charged three cell Li-Po pack will generate 12.38 volts, which will kill it in no time flat.

A long can 400 (sold by Hobby Lobby) will take 12 volts and is better suited for three cell Li-Po packs.

I've been flying my S/S on two cell Thunder Power 1320 packs for over three years and the motor does not shows any signs of slowing down.

Last edited by qban_flyer; 10-04-2005 at 01:51 AM.
 
Old 09-02-2005, 11:08 PM
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with my slow stick I use a 7.4 volt thunder power 2100mah
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Old 09-03-2005, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nova801428
with my slow stick I use a 7.4 volt thunder power 2100mah
I switched to the EPS100 4:43 - 1 swinging a 12X8 propeller on my Sitck (the original version of three or so years ago came with the EPS100 power plant) to check and see how it would pull it. It does a fine job and remains airborne for several ten minute flights, though it won't loop fom level flight as nice as it does with the EPS300 on a two cell Li-Po.

As long as the input voltage on those 400 motors doesn't exceed 9.6 volts (better yet 8.4 volts), they'll last for quite sometime.

Same applies to all GWS power systems. The IPS, EPS 100, EPS150, EPS300 & EPS350 geared affairs will live forever used that way. They seem to thrive on 8.4 volts or less.

I usually follow the manufacturer's advice on the products they have designed. If they tell me 9.6V maximum input on a given motor, that's the limit I will feed it.

Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-03-2005 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Clarification on looping
 
Old 09-03-2005, 12:54 AM
  #13  
rc crashburn
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Default EPS40 3:1 gearing on 3S works quite satisfactorily

Recommend that you stay with your 3S LIpo, This motor really does not come alive using just 2S. Now get yourself a Castle Creations Pixie 20 Speed Control and set the cut-off to the 8.4 volts setting.

I personally also suggest using the EP 9050HD prop, that's if you want that motor to keep from overheating on the higher 3S voltage. Use of that prop will keep the amps down. Excessive amps is what frys equipment, not the slightly higher volts you now have at your command.
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Old 09-03-2005, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rc crashburn
Recommend that you stay with your 3S LIpo, This motor really does not come alive using just 2S. Now get yourself a Castle Creations Pixie 20 Speed Control and set the cut-off to the 8.4 volts setting.

I personally also suggest using the EP 9050HD prop, that's if you want that motor to keep from overheating on the higher 3S voltage. Use of that prop will keep the amps down. Excessive amps is what frys equipment, not the slightly higher volts you now have at your command.
My personal taste? I'd rather to fly these Sticks at a very slow pace and as close to me as I can.

I tried it with the Himax 2015-4100 using three cell T/P 1320 Li-Po packs. Not what I wanted the Stick for, though I was able to haul a digital camera and one extra servo around while flying level @ 1/4 throttle. No sweat!

The thrust to weight ratio of that combo was well over 200%. Not my cup of tea with the Sticks though, besides I'd like these motors to outlast the planes (Slow Sticks seem to last forever). GWS on their web site has everything above 9.6V highlighted in RED stating: "RED: DO NOT USE".

I'm using 11.1V packs in my B/L equipped 3D foamies, also using CC ESCs since 2003 and in all my Li-Po powered planes.

* As per Tower Hobbies site on the Stick/400: Input voltage 7.2V

Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-03-2005 at 01:49 AM. Reason: Clarification
 
Old 09-03-2005, 06:33 AM
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t. edwards
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RC Crashburn has it right. Have seen this combo recomended by Lin(?) from GWS as a good combo for their warbirds. 9x5 prop if you run full throttle alot. 10x6 if you use just moderate discretion. May sound silly but check motor temp by (carefully) grabbing motor can. At 150 degrees F you can hold it for about one second. Hotter than this and you need smaller prop. Tom
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Old 09-03-2005, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by t. edwards
RC Crashburn has it right. Have seen this combo recomended by Lin(?) from GWS as a good combo for their warbirds. 9x5 prop if you run full throttle alot. 10x6 if you use just moderate discretion. May sound silly but check motor temp by (carefully) grabbing motor can. At 150 degrees F you can hold it for about one second. Hotter than this and you need smaller prop. Tom
HHMMMM!
Been to the GWS site checking specs and recommendations for their Warbirds. Nowhere do they recommend anything higher than 9.6V input on the motors supplied with these planes. Propeller size on them is stated to be from 8X6 through 9X7.

No comments from Mr. Lin anywhere regarding 'souping up' the performance of the models by adding an extra 3 volts to their motors either.

They know their motors, voltage and current limits better than we would ever be able to, rtmiller should stick with the recommendation made by the manufacturer when it comes to input voltage and prop size for his S/S. Failure to follow these instructions will only lead to a quick motor death.

I've seen it happen dozens of times at the flying fields and parks. People try and get cute by going overboard on battery pack size (voltage) in order to be able to do some weird 'maneuver'. Next thing they have is a flying smoke bomb, which may or may not survive the 'experience'. This is especially true if the ESC fries in the process and when total loss of control follows, they'll achieve that spectacular maneuver which may even kill the airborne pack. Been there, done that (only once though).

These motors are cheap, but it is a pain to have to take the plane back home (unless someone enjoys doing it at the field), extract the pinion and replace the motor just because someone made a suggestion contrary to what the manufacturer stated in the owner's manuals regarding battery pack size (voltage).

Some flyers may enjoy replacing cheap motors at the field, the vast majority of us do not. Whatever propeller came with his S/S 400 it's the optimum propeller size for the motor provided and he should follow the battery pack recommendations as well.

Links below are very specific in this respect.

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/airfly/p51.htm

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/produc...y/spitfire.htm

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/airfly/zero.htm

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/airfly/Me-109.htm

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/produc...ow%20stick.htm


Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-03-2005 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Clarification
 
Old 09-04-2005, 03:29 AM
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Geez Qban_Flyer, I hope you weren't talking about ME and my 8 cell Slow Stick!!

Anyways, I can confirm that 9.6V on a a 350D powered Slow Stick is bad bad bad for the motor. I smoked the can motor after 6 flights using that 9.6V pack. I am now using an old 7 cell 600AE Sanyo pack and it flies great. That is when I am not pulling a dumb thumb stunt.

Hey Q! Monday about 5-5:30. You know where.
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Old 09-04-2005, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Twmaster
Geez Qban_Flyer, I hope you weren't talking about ME and my 8 cell Slow Stick!!

Anyways, I can confirm that 9.6V on a a 350D powered Slow Stick is bad bad bad for the motor. I smoked the can motor after 6 flights using that 9.6V pack. I am now using an old 7 cell 600AE Sanyo pack and it flies great. That is when I am not pulling a dumb thumb stunt.

Hey Q! Monday about 5-5:30. You know where.
Naw!

I'm talking about those recommending to newbies the use of three LiPo cell packs on motors designed for no more than 9.6V!

A freshly charged three cell LiPo pack will deliver close to 12.6V to the motor. I've seen some using those packs on the GWS S/S only to smoke the motors after five to eight flights, regardless of propeller size and pitch used!
 
Old 09-04-2005, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Twmaster
Geez Qban_Flyer, I hope you weren't talking about ME and my 8 cell Slow Stick!!

Anyways, I can confirm that 9.6V on a a 350D powered Slow Stick is bad bad bad for the motor. I smoked the can motor after 6 flights using that 9.6V pack. I am now using an old 7 cell 600AE Sanyo pack and it flies great. That is when I am not pulling a dumb thumb stunt.

Hey Q! Monday about 5-5:30. You know where.
PS: Got today your PM sent from RCG two weeks ago! Better late than never, I'd say. YEP! N.A.A. or bust on Monday.

Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-04-2005 at 05:37 AM.
 
Old 09-04-2005, 06:11 PM
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rc crashburn
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Default From The Data Charts:

GW/EPS400CDS (M0.4)66/22=3.00
PropellerVolts (V)Amps (A)ThrustPower (W)Efficiency(g)(oz)(g/W)(oz/KW)EP90477.25.42538.92 38.886.51230 8.46.430210.65 53.765.62198 9.67.737213.12 73.925.03177 10.8944315.63 97.24.56161 1210.146116.26 121.23.8134 GW/EPS400CDS (M0.4)66/22=3.00PropellerVolts (V)Amps (A)ThrustPower (W)Efficiency(g)(oz)(g/W)(oz/KW)EP90508.45.329610.44 44.526.65235 (DIRECT)9.65.930410.72 56.645.37189 10.86.836112.73 73.444.92174 128.143215.24 97.24.44157
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Old 09-04-2005, 06:15 PM
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Default EPS 400 Geared 3 to 1 using 3S Lipo

check it out at Aeromicro and it will be easy to understand
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Old 09-04-2005, 07:49 PM
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Info on eps400cd (supplied motor/gearbox for a slow stick 400) and acceptable prop/voltage combinations (bear in mind that 10.8 volts is a little higher than you'll see from a 3S Lipo under load and 7.2 volts is higher than you'll see from a 2S Lipo under load) is on GWS's website, gwsus.com. Tom
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Old 09-05-2005, 04:53 AM
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QBAN, I don't know what you're thinking, but the links you reference for the GWS Spitfire, Zero, and ME-109 400's all show the EPS400C/DS supplied with a 9050 (9x5) prop and the REQUIRED battery a 3S LIPO. Tom
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Old 09-08-2005, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by t. edwards
QBAN, I don't know what you're thinking, but the links you reference for the GWS Spitfire, Zero, and ME-109 400's all show the EPS400C/DS supplied with a 9050 (9x5) prop and the REQUIRED battery a 3S LIPO. Tom
Say Tom,

I wasn't thinking, I was quoting from the horse's mouth, the GWS site. Follow the links I supplied on my post and you'll see what I was doing. My experience with cheap Speed 400 types is vast to know better than fry them with three cell Li-Pos. Even Hobby Lobby does not push them past 9.6V!

A long can 400 (not what comes the S/S 400) will take 12V all day long without any problems.
The Tower Hobbies link rtmiller supplied with his querie doesn't even mention Li-Pos of any kind in their description of the model, much less list them as 'required' equipment. The only mention to Li-Pos is above their description of the plane where they try to sell the customer a 1500 mAh 2 cell Li-Po pack for $32.99, nowhere do they mention 3 cell packs.

This thread is about the S/S, I included the warbird series as reference. They are different birds with different gear box ratios and requirements and even though they may suggest the use of 3 cell Li-Po packs I can assure you the motors won't last 20 flights.

I'll say it one more time, I have fried too many Speed 400s by over-voltaging them to know better. In the end it is rtmiller's plane and money that will sufer, not mine. I would strongly recommend NOT TO use a 3 cell Li-Po pack unless he replaces the cheap motor supplied with a long can 400.


Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-08-2005 at 04:57 AM.
 
Old 09-08-2005, 04:20 AM
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Speaking of the 'long can' 400. They can be had cheap from Park Zone as it is the motor in the P-51. My LHS has like 4 in stock sticker priced at $10.99
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