AMA cost to size relationship? - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight

General Electric Discussions Talk about topics related to e-powered RC flying

AMA cost to size relationship?

Old 10-12-2005, 03:16 PM
  #1  
kloudking
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 30
Default AMA cost to size relationship?

Dear Marc:: I don't know where this post should be, but here's a topic I have heard talked about but not seen anything in writing.. Maybe it was a figment of some modelers imagination.. Is the AMA ever going to set up a sliding membership cost??? Most of us that are flying e-models, are not flying at club fields because of the size of the models we fly, and the cost of AMA to be able to join a club.. I was a member for years and when I stopped going to club fields I opted out of the AMA because of cost.. (and at that time the quality of their mag, for what I was loooking for). My opinion!!!! Why should guys that are flying 7-15 oz. models electrically subsidise the contest guys that are flying 20 40 LB. monsters with Gas engines??? Or Jets doing 150+ mph.. There should be a sliding scale according to the weight of the models flown..I realise this would be tough to police, but most of the people in the hobby that I have ever dealt with are very honest.. Even if there were three or four levels, Electric, Nitro, Gas, Jets, Heli, both electric and Nitro..I think this would get more people who are not members now to reconsider belonging to the AMA.. This might get more people thinking about pushing the AMA into a more fair pricing curve... Thanks, Kloudking
kloudking is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:49 PM
  #2  
termite
Super Contributor
 
termite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utica Illinois
Posts: 1,055
Default

Just a thought.

Who do you think lobbies the FCC to keep the RF channels that you fly on? They would love to have them for other uses and if we don't support the AMA we may loose the right to use these frequencies.

What will ya do with all your airplanes then? Hang em on the wall and admire them?

Also; how's your homeowners ins? what are your personal liability limits?
Do you think you have enough coverage to pay for smacking a car or hitting a bystander in the head?
How about smackin a car as it's going down the road and then it goes of the road, roles over and kills the driver?

All worst case senarios but it can and does happen.

GET YOUR WALLET OUT
Randy
termite is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 04:53 PM
  #3  
DickCorby
Member
 
DickCorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Enumclaw, Wa
Posts: 546
Default

I've been an AMA member since 1968, and don't mind paying my yearly dues. I fly at a club field most of the time and agree with the club rules that AMA insurance, or you can't fly.

Mainly due to the feeling that if something goes wrong, I can depend on the AMA insurance to assist in keeping me from being totally bankrupted by our present legal system of frivilous lawsuits and huge settlements. These guys flying the missles we "control" without the AMA coverage are gambeling every time they launch. Can you imagine what would happen if you were to lose control and hit a child in the park while flying? Ever seen what an electric prop does to human flesh, and then comes back and does it again.

But the other side of the coin is that if it werent for the AMA our Sport/Hobby as it exists today probably wouldn't exist. When the Navy quit sponsoring the Nats, it was the AMA that kept it going, and promoting the hobby.

Notwithstanding the assistance for finding flying fields, and other background programs they take care of. So I suggest that the dues paid are a good contribution to the society we live in and the hobby we enjoy. Too bad all the taxes we pay don't provide as much benefit for thost that pay taxes.
DickCorby is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 05:24 PM
  #4  
batman
Member
 
batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 238
Default

Got to agree with the previous two replies.
batman is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 07:15 PM
  #5  
Rabbitcreekok
Community Moderator
 
Rabbitcreekok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: McAlester, Oklahoma
Posts: 8,623
Default

I also agree with the previous 3 posts. I live in the country and fly a lot off my own runway, but I would never let my AMA membership lapse. It is much more risky to fly in a park with kids around than flying at a club field. Folks assume that a small park flyer can't cause much in the way of an injury. What if the small park flyer gets away(and we have all had a R/C model get away) and strikes a child in the eye and blinds the child in that eye. Don't say it can't or won't happen. I know my homeowners insurance probably won't provide coverage to compensate that child for a lifetime of blindness in that one eye. I, for one, would be glad to have AMA insurance behind me.

I have seen comments saying that AMA insurance only covers a member if they are flying at a club field. That is not true. I think people get confused with the club rule that you must be an AMA member to fly at the club field. I checked to be sure that the AMA coverage applied to my personal flying field.

If the annual dues for AMA membership are such a large part of ones hobby budget, perhaps another hobby is in order.

Last edited by Rabbitcreekok; 10-13-2005 at 05:52 PM.
Rabbitcreekok is online now  
Old 10-12-2005, 07:17 PM
  #6  
Slopemeno
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4
Default

The sliding scale would cost more to administer than the net savings.
Slopemeno is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 07:22 PM
  #7  
rcers
Super Contributor
 
rcers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Trophy Club TX
Posts: 6,314
Default

Well kloudking - I guess you and I are on the same page.

Now before you guys get after me, I have been a longtime AMA member and supporter. But $58/year is a tad steep for my 2-3 fly in's per year and supplimental coverage.

I think perhaps that the cost keeps many potential members away. How many more would they have with a lower cost, or sliding scale?

I like the idea.

Mike
rcers is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 07:41 PM
  #8  
DickCorby
Member
 
DickCorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Enumclaw, Wa
Posts: 546
Default

I spend more than $58 for 2-3 servos for any given plane. I certainly won't complain about $58 for the benefits AMA provides. And to make it even worse, I may spend the $58 many times in a given year for servos, not just once like the AMA dues.
DickCorby is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 08:14 PM
  #9  
rcers
Super Contributor
 
rcers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Trophy Club TX
Posts: 6,314
Default

I spend several thousand on the hobby, but since you bring up cost of servos great.

The cost of "micro" type servo 26 years ago (when I started) was $50 (at least). Now they are $15.

I can't for the life of me remember the AMA cost then, but it was under $20.

AMA is supplimental insurance coverage. It has gone up dramatically in the last 5 years. Too much I think.

I am glad $58 is no big deal for you, but what is wrong with a sliding scale?

What about a reduction for no magazine? What if they can double their membership by going to $29/year?

....

Mike
rcers is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 08:31 PM
  #10  
DickCorby
Member
 
DickCorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Enumclaw, Wa
Posts: 546
Default

To each his own, I personally have gotten a lot of pleasure from my membership over the years, but that is just me I guess. I've been a member since 1968, and dues were about $8 per year then. (I think)

Same as joining a club, the relationships and assistance more than cover the $125 per year I pay in dues for use of our leased field.

Plus if you think about it, when you were paying $20 for dues, gas was less than $1.00 a gallon and a loaf of bread cost 35 cents. Why would you think that inflation wouldn't affect the AMA as well.

Try buying life insurance at the rates they were 20 years ago. As it is my life insurance rates are going up on a yearly basis, 10-20 dollars per month increase every year. And that makes AMA membership look like my income versus Bill gates income.

If you have to quibble over a $58 yearly expense to cover you for any accicents, plus the other benefits, I might suggest that you are in the wrong hobby. Perhaps something less cheaper and mentally taxing might be appropriate.
DickCorby is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 08:50 PM
  #11  
rcers
Super Contributor
 
rcers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Trophy Club TX
Posts: 6,314
Default

If you have to quibble over a $58 yearly expense to cover you for any accicents, plus the other benefits, I might suggest that you are in the wrong hobby. Perhaps something less cheaper and mentally taxing might be appropriate.
Thank you very much, but I have been in the hobby for 27 years. I can have an opinion just like you.

The whole point is there are many - I have 5 guys I fly with that don't have AMA. I have another 5 that have joined the AMA. By in large most all of those 10 think that $58 is too much. I don't want the AMA to continue to overlook those members that find it too expensive? They just don't see a benefit, no matter how much I talk to them about the benefits.

Why not address the new "parkfler" fliers? I think an option for them brings a whole new life to the sport. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think so. I think the President of the AMA is trying to figure just these types of fliers out too. He sure has devoted a lot of column space to it.

Mike
rcers is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 09:06 PM
  #12  
mmmdowning
Member
 
mmmdowning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 143
Default

A paying curve for the parkflyers I think not they are more at risk of hitting a crowd than at the club field. So in turn a higher liability. So lets turn it around and say if you fly at a club field I should pay less because I'm being more reasponsible then flyng at a park were there are inocent bystanders not paying attention to you and playing catch with there dad and you loose control and hit the father or son and they die.

The membership cost less than a full tank of gas for my Toyota Sequia. I have no problems paying the $58. I fly nitro, electric-big and small, and only at the club field.

Take a family of 3 to the movies and it will cost you more than $58. Thats just going to 1 show. I can fly for 12 months with a safety blanket.

To many people will sue just for sneezing around them. One park flyer will cost more than a membership. For there magazine - I like it they are covering more and more electrics. The technologies are advancing at a rapid rate. And I like having a little safety blanket from AMA in case something was to go wrong.

As for me I can't imagine flying in a park or school yard. Just the safety aspect alone scares me away.

OK, don't get the membership and see how much you loose when an accident happens. You would've wished you paid the $58.

Compare home insurance, car insurance, life insurance, and what we pay for that then look at the $58.

I'm sorry but I'm surprised anyone would complain over $58 a year.
mmmdowning is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 09:38 PM
  #13  
DickCorby
Member
 
DickCorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Enumclaw, Wa
Posts: 546
Default

Sorry!! Yes you have a right to your opinion. But it looks like a lot of others have opinions contrary to yours.

It's always been my experience, that when my opinion is questioned and the arguments are valid, perhaps I should step back and evaluate my position.
DickCorby is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 09:40 PM
  #14  
TimOBrien
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 57
Default

Anyone who's going to complain about the AMA dues will complain if it's $58 or $12.
(I know the type; they did it back when it was $8 a year.)

Cheap and shortsighted is cheap and shortsighted....
TimOBrien is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 10:17 PM
  #15  
rcers
Super Contributor
 
rcers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Trophy Club TX
Posts: 6,314
Default

they are more at risk of hitting a crowd than at the club field. So in turn a higher liability. So lets turn it around and say if you fly at a club field I should pay less because I'm being more reasponsible then flyng at a park were there are inocent bystanders not paying attention to you and playing catch with there dad and you loose control and hit the father or son and they die.
Funny you should mention that.

Incidents I have seen while flying at a park setting "0".

Incidents I have seen at my club fields (over the years):

1-one buddy box traininer 40 size ship through a windshild of a brand new car
2-one guy stuck his hand in the prop on a running glow motor
3-one guy forgetting to turn on the RX on his glider (high start) hitting a home over a mile from the field (it was trimmed well, what can i say...)
4-one hitting the trunk of a car when the pilot lost control
5-one out of control on landing hitting a pilot (below the knee) while on the flight line

But I do get your point.

Sorry I am cheap and shortsited. Remember I pay my dues, faithfully every year. (I am cheap that way). I am trying to get guys that don't. When I ask why they don't join they say it is a cost issue.

Who knows if they would join - even if free.

Cheap, Shortsighted Mike here....
rcers is offline  
Old 10-12-2005, 10:47 PM
  #16  
mmmdowning
Member
 
mmmdowning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 143
Default

rcers

Theres examples everywhere, parks, clubs field, schools, etc... Accidents will happen everywhere. But its better to have them in a some what control enviroment then at a park.

A boy lost his eye due to a park flyer. He was playing on a set of monkey bars minding his own. Next second he's blind for the rest of his life.

Believe me, I have a 5 year old son and we play at parks and if I see someone trying to fly at the park I will talk to him about the dangers.
I will leave the park.

If my son was to get hit by a lost control of plane I would sue till he has nothing and continue to be his nightmare.

Parks are not made for flying.

Just my thoughts.

Please be safe.
mmmdowning is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 12:01 AM
  #17  
afterglow
AMA#711639
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Massachusettes
Posts: 1
Default

I've been a member of AMA for a few years now,and plan to stay with them. the RC hobby is constantly changing and growing.Thanks to the ham radio bunch BPL (broadband over power lines) has been recognized for the threat to radio use of any kind that I believe it is.AMA has taken it to Washington.9/11 has the chance of ending everyones right to operate flying models of any kind,sooner or later,in the name of homeland security.AMA is there on behalf of the modeler.I think they're working to keep rates from going too much higher.I am buying the dvds AMA sends,although they arn't cheap either.I think that was a smart move on AMAs part,to generate money in a new way plus help put faces on some of the AMA workers.I'm looking forward to the next one,so I guess to me they're worth it.AMA supports the modeler and the builder,not just the flyer.
afterglow is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 05:50 AM
  #18  
eljimb0
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: portland or.. in a house
Posts: 6
Default

I have been involved in discusions about this several times. I have never seen either side give up one inch of ground. I belong to the AMA. I wish every model builder/flyer did too. I wish the dues were less.
The hobby is growing very fast right now. The AMA is staying the same. I hope that the organization with its great history and accomplishments can adapt to this new giant wandering herd. If it doesn't the herd is going to run all over the place and muck up everything... and there will be a new trail boss.
jimbo
eljimb0 is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 07:18 AM
  #19  
DickCorby
Member
 
DickCorby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Enumclaw, Wa
Posts: 546
Default

Funny you should mention that.

Incidents I have seen while flying at a park setting "0".

Incidents I have seen at my club fields (over the years):


I'm glad you put the " over the years" in there. That about says it all. Park flying has only been going on for a very few years, Club flying fields have been there for as many years as I have been in the hobby (1968 till now)

Considering the number of flights that take place at my club field, and the number of incidents, the safety record is pretty good. I've seen every one of the things you mention "over the years" myself. (occasionally I have been hit by a prop myself) but I've also heard of some of the claims the AMA has paid out.

I heard that last year a guy got hit by a helicopter, in California I think, and he almost was decapitated, and died on the field before the EMT's could arrive. AMA coverage surely was a good thing to have at that time, I'm sure his family appreciates that the insurance was in place.
DickCorby is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 10:37 AM
  #20  
LuckyArmpit
Rehab is for quitters
 
LuckyArmpit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Middlesex
Posts: 218
Default

I also belong to AMA since I also fly glow and belong to two clubs. I also fly on my farm (50 acres). As for the cost, yeah, I think its a bit high. I could do without the magazine because to me, it doesn't really offer much value. By the time you get the mag, you already know about the new products thru web sites such as this and others. Plus, I could care less about who won the nats, control line stuff etc. Take out the magazine and pay $35.

Dave...
LuckyArmpit is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 02:15 PM
  #21  
Matt Kirsch
Super Contributor
 
Matt Kirsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,086
Default

I don't see why this can't stay here provided you keep it on-topic and civil. "AMA or no AMA" is a decision every flyer needs to make at some point.

The only thing is that I see the same argument that I've always seen... "If you can't afford $58 you're in the wrong hobby," is not a valid argument. What's wrong here is that people don't know what the AMA REALLY does. They think that all the AMA does is sit in their "crystal palace" in Muncie and make silly rules that take all the "fun" out of flying.

Beyond the AMA's interaction with the FAA, FCC, and TSC on our behalf, there's a tremendous convenience factor. See, most of us don't have the privilege of a family farm to fly over, so we've got to deal with the real world if we want to fly. Real world listens better to an organized group with safety rules and insurance already in place, but the members of said organized group don't want to deal with the paperwork or the cost involved. AMA is cheap compared to going out and buying a private insurance policy to cover both the landowner and club members. Plus, it's universal: You can fly with any AMA club just by flashing your AMA card and asking nicely.
Matt Kirsch is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 02:35 PM
  #22  
rcers
Super Contributor
 
rcers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Trophy Club TX
Posts: 6,314
Default

The hobby is growing very fast right now. The AMA is staying the same.
That is correct. When your sport is growning and you are not something is wrong. It needs to be addressed, and for the most part the executives at the AMA realize this (I think).

Beyond the AMA's interaction with the FAA, FCC, and TSC on our behalf, there's a tremendous convenience factor.
Yes I agree. And I too feel like the site owner coverage, and event santion coverage are very resonable.

We have to to do something to get the new folks in the AMA. Something has to change. I think price is one. I think the dispariging comments many club members make about the AMA are another area we could change. Too many gripe about it instead of getting involved.

I know my district VP. I have emailed him many times. He is a good guy, comes to events and meets modellers. He takes my concerns and answers my questions.

At any rate - we need to get the new guys. What do you suggest?

Mike
rcers is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 03:09 PM
  #23  
mmmdowning
Member
 
mmmdowning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Posts: 143
Default

AT our site the members are discussing making an asigned area for the park flyers to fly which is good because the numbers are growing rapidly. We can't have the parkflyers in the same flight path as the bigger planes - gas and electric. They would get run over. We also have a seperate area for helicopters. It seems to work out pretty well.
mmmdowning is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 04:05 PM
  #24  
kloudking
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 30
Default

Boy did I open a can of worms,, Don't get me wrong guys I was just throwing around ideas that I had heard about at a couple of meetings with several different clubs members..Why can't I join for a discounted price If I don't want to recieve the mag?? Like one of the other guys (dave) said some of us don't care who wins the nationals and or most of the other stuff that is old news by the time we read it..Yes I know what the AMA has done for the hobby over the years, and the comments that I have made and the opinions expressed, I thought might add members to the AMA from the park and e-flyer group..If we could get more members, and be covered at fields that are not AMA sanctioned, the whole hobby would be better served. Some of us don't have a field that is even remotley accessible time wise. With todays gas prices who wants to drive 1.5 hours to get to their closest field? I am for the AMA but lets have a choice wether we want the mag or not, and give us a discount if we don't..In the area where we fly, if there are other people using the field for whatever, we don't fly until they are either gone or off the field watching us.. Kloudking
kloudking is offline  
Old 10-13-2005, 04:39 PM
  #25  
LuckyArmpit
Rehab is for quitters
 
LuckyArmpit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Middlesex
Posts: 218
Default

Yes, I do believe we should have choice whether or not members want the mag or not. Take a look at the last DVD they sent out. I received it in the mail unsolicited. Then they want, what was it? $10 or so. And then they send you letters about "wheres our money for the video"?
I'm not bashing the AMA and fully believe that if you are flying anything in the air whether its public or private land, you should have some kind of insurance coverage. I've seen planes go down and become uncontrollable even with the best of pre-flight checks. If its electronic and or mechanical, theres nothing completely 100% failsafe.
Alot of guys fly in their "sunday morning" groups. Some at public parks etc. All it takes is for one idiot to screw it up for everyone. Which is why alot of public places don't allow rc of any type. I think eventually, you won't be able to fly anywhere unless its private land and you have permission from the owner. Else, you'll have to join a club and have to have AMA to fly there. With all the happy "I'm suing" people nowadays,
communities just aren't going to take that chance.

Dave...
LuckyArmpit is offline  

Quick Reply: AMA cost to size relationship?


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.15576 seconds with 12 queries