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FAA registration

Old 01-12-2016, 02:16 PM
  #26  
ooOoo
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My guess is that the AMA knows that if people need to register through the govt that they will become somewhat useless to many people. They brought a big wad of $$$ to their meeting and paid off the FAA to allow AMA special exceptions so people will continue to pay AMA dues. I doubt the AMA's main interest is the modeler. It's paying for their house, cars, etc...
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:46 PM
  #27  
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The only special thing I see... is allowing use of the AMA number marking of the aircraft rather than using the FAA's number.

The other is about following a set of guidelines that anyone can follow, member or not.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:36 PM
  #28  
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Here is a link to an article about the registry from The Heritage Foundation
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:59 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
The only special thing I see... is allowing use of the AMA number marking of the aircraft rather than using the FAA's number.

The other is about following a set of guidelines that anyone can follow, member or not.
1) Q: Am I permitted to fly above 400 feet? What if I had to check a box saying otherwise on the federal registration website?

A: Yes. AMA members who abide by the AMA Safety Code, which permits flights above 400 feet, are still allowed to fly and are protected by the Special Rule for Model Aircraft under the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act. The federal registration box requiring agreement to only fly under 400 feet applies to individuals who are not operating within the safety guidelines of a community-based organization. We have been in discussions with the FAA about this point and the agency has indicted that it will be updating its website in the next week to make clear that this altitude restriction does not apply to AMA members.

2)Q: Am I permitted to fly first person view (FPV)?

3)Can I fly at night?

A: Yes. AMA members are still protected by the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, which is part of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act. As long as AMA members continue to follow AMA’s safety guidelines for these activities, they can continue to fly. The checkbox guidelines listed on the FAA UAS registration website do not apply to individuals who belong to a community-based organization such as the AMA.

The AMA does not seem to follow your holistic understanding.
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:27 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
The only special thing I see... is allowing use of the AMA number marking of the aircraft rather than using the FAA's number.

The other is about following a set of guidelines that anyone can follow, member or not.
What I don't understand is, wouldn't it be easier just to require that all 'UASs' have the owner's name and address printed on them? That would accomplish the same thing and be easier for everyone, Especially the FAA as they wouldn't have to deal with the "millions" of registrations (or all the subsequent requests from law enforcement every time one behaves badly).

On a side note, here is yet another article which blatantly demonstrates the writer's total ignorance on the subject.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/30074...ed-to-faa.html
Proof that computers are contributing to the dumbing of America?
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:36 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
...here is yet another article which blatantly demonstrates the writer's total ignorance on the subject….
So what exactly did he get wrong? Seems in line with everything we know.
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:31 PM
  #32  
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It should also be noted that the PC World article was written a full month before the rule went into effect. That's why a lot of it says "reported to be".
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:54 PM
  #33  
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Q: Do I need to list both my AMA number and my federal registration number on my aircraft?
A: No. AMA has secured a concession from the FAA that allows AMA members to continue using their AMA numbers as the primary identification on his or her aircraft. AMA members are required to still have a hard copy or electronic copy of the federal registration certificate on them while flying.

Taken from the Q and A linked above. Does anyone have any knowledge that FAA has given in on this point or is this just another unsubstantiated claim by the AMA?
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:35 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
So what exactly did he get wrong? Seems in line with everything we know.
This, in particular.

"What wouldn't change is the current rules under which consumers can fly drones. Regulations are relatively light as the craft are supposed to remain in unregulated airspace below 400 feet and not take off within 5 miles of an airport, but its the failure of some pilots to abide by these restrictions that has prompted the move to a registration system."
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:38 PM
  #35  
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Just out of curiosity, from what point of the airport are we supposed to measure the 5 miles from? The tower? Runway? TACAN? The nearest edge of the property? The center? Many airports themselves extend for miles in all directions!
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:25 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
The only special thing I see... is allowing use of the AMA number marking of the aircraft rather than using the FAA's number.

The other is about following a set of guidelines that anyone can follow, member or not.
Exactly! The FAA wants a sUAV registry. The AMA argues that, for its members, they already have one. So they sit down and try to figure out if there's a way to link the two together.

As far as I'm concerned, the whole thing is a non-issue. My registration is free for the next three years and after that, it's $5 every three years. Considering what I have invested in RC gear, it's a drop in the ocean. Now the FAA knows my name, my address and the fact that I fly RC. So what?

Is it going to deter idiots from doing idiotic things? Maybe not, but it may cause non-idiots to think twice before they do impulsive idiotic things. Also, if my gear is ever lost or stolen, the markings may help it find its way back to me.

Is it a restriction to my freedom? Not in any meaningful way. There are so many much worse intrusions into our privacy committed by the government every day that it's almost a sin to spend time discussing this one.

Is it a slippery slope to an outright ban on RC? In fact, I think it's the opposite. The FAA is feeling pressure to "do something about drones". Simply doing nothing hasn't been an option when people like Chuck Shumer are on a crusade against drones. Out of all the possible actions the FAA has taken, this is the least intrusive I can think of. If anything, this gives everyone some breathing room while this is being implemented and evaluated. Is more stuff about to come down the pipe? Maybe, but I don't think it's related to or initiated by the drone registration.

Can the FAA really do this? Well, that's an interesting question for someone who's a lawyer. Personally, I think it may violate the hobby exemption in section 309, but what I think doesn't really matter. If it's indeed a violation, I'm sure someone is going to challenge it legally. It's going to be interesting to follow the first case when someone gets busted for flying a non-registered "drone". If they have a good lawyer, there's a chance it may be thrown out as "capricious".

So personally, I'm buying a new roll of label strips for my Dymo and putting labels inside the fuselages of my planes. It's a couple of dollars and a few minutes of work. I'll compare that to the days of work I'll have to do in a couple of months to have the pleasure to pay the IRS tens of thousands of dollars, and it doesn't feel like such a burden.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:58 PM
  #37  
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Duplicate post
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:00 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Turner View Post
1) Q: Am I permitted to fly above 400 feet? What if I had to check a box saying otherwise on the federal registration website?

A: Yes. AMA members who abide by the AMA Safety Code, which permits flights above 400 feet, are still allowed to fly and are protected by the Special Rule for Model Aircraft under the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act. The federal registration box requiring agreement to only fly under 400 feet applies to individuals who are not operating within the safety guidelines of a community-based organization. We have been in discussions with the FAA about this point and the agency has indicted that it will be updating its website in the next week to make clear that this altitude restriction does not apply to AMA members.

2)Q: Am I permitted to fly first person view (FPV)?

3)Can I fly at night?

A: Yes. AMA members are still protected by the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, which is part of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act. As long as AMA members continue to follow AMA’s safety guidelines for these activities, they can continue to fly. The checkbox guidelines listed on the FAA UAS registration website do not apply to individuals who belong to a community-based organization such as the AMA.

The AMA does not seem to follow your holistic understanding.
What the AMA believes is worth the writing on the back of a cereal box. When you checked the box requiring you to fly under 400' you paid your $5 for a binding legal contract with the FAA not to ever fly over 400'. Your membership in AMA or NRA or AARP is irrelevant. It is a legal contract and if you fly over 400' you are in violation.

Now violated contracts are subject to the judgement of the parties of the contract whether that violation will be punished or not. The FAA could well decide to not enforce that provision. But the provision is still there and able to be enforced any time the FAA decides to, even if they have already overlooked violation in the past.

And since the FAA is a governmental quasi-legal entity, equal protection under the law applies totally. It is not in their power to give AMA members special treatment. To do so would discriminate against AMA non-members and violate their obligation or provide equal protection under the law.

It is as if the NTSB decided that Teamster members could go without seat belts. That wouldn't fly, and neither will preferrential treatment to AMA members. It isn't right and won't stand.
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:05 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
What the AMA believes is worth the writing on the back of a cereal box. When you checked the box requiring you to fly under 400' you paid your $5 for a binding legal contract with the FAA not to ever fly over 400'. Your membership in AMA or NRA or AARP is irrelevant. It is a legal contract and if you fly over 400' you are in violation.
The 400' restriction is part of a law passed by Congress and signed by the President. It applies whether or not you signed anything with anyone.
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:19 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by NJSwede View Post
The 400' restriction is part of a law passed by Congress and signed by the President. It applies whether or not you signed anything with anyone.
You are thinking wrong.

Suppose you live in a gated community with a homeowner's association. Now you have a legal right to paint your house any color you want, just as you have the right to fly over 400' outside of 3 miles from an airport.

But as a deed restriction when you buy a house in this community you are required to paint your house only the colors permitted by the homeowners association. You have now entered into a legal contract to give up your right to paint your house purple. And that contract is enforceable.

So you are legally allowed to fly over 400' unless you are flying within 3 miles of an airport according to Congress and signed by the President. However, you have given up that right by checking the box on the FAA Drone Registration website and paying $5. You entered into a voluntary contract to give up your legal rights and the courts will enforce that.

According to the law you legally gave away your right to do what the law allows.
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:27 PM
  #41  
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Hmm... It looks like the 400' isn't part of the law, actually... I always thought it was.
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Old 01-13-2016, 10:43 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
You are thinking wrong.

Suppose you live in a gated community with a homeowner's association. Now you have a legal right to paint your house any color you want, just as you have the right to fly over 400' outside of 3 miles from an airport.

But as a deed restriction when you buy a house in this community you are required to paint your house only the colors permitted by the homeowners association. You have now entered into a legal contract to give up your right to paint your house purple. And that contract is enforceable.

So you are legally allowed to fly over 400' unless you are flying within 3 miles of an airport according to Congress and signed by the President. However, you have given up that right by checking the box on the FAA Drone Registration website and paying $5. You entered into a voluntary contract to give up your legal rights and the courts will enforce that.

According to the law you legally gave away your right to do what the law allows.

So are you suggesting it is better to not sign and suffer the penalties outlined in the FAA rule or simply saying we are getting hosed?
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Old 01-13-2016, 10:48 PM
  #43  
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We are getting hosed by a federal agency exceeding their authority.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:37 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
We are getting hosed by a federal agency exceeding their authority.
The only problem is we cannot turn off the hose. A lawsuit has been filed by a lawyer who also flies RC. Hopefully others will join by filing other lawsuits, because the courts are the only way this will be worked out.

We are talking about a government bureaucracy who has traditionally not responded to anything from the user side. I know because I used to be in the aviation business. It was their way or the highway. My father dealt with them beginning in the 1930's when it was the CAA. It was better then, but has gotten steadily worse.

Think what you want about the AMA, but they are the only group of any size that is trying to help the RC community. They don't have the size of the NRA at 4 million members, so they don't wield a lot of power in DC, but they are trying. Anything they accomplish will help those who choose not to belong, but if all RC flyers belonged, think of the influence they would have with DC.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:43 PM
  #45  
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If i win the lotto... I'll spend up to HALF to oppose the FAA
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:49 PM
  #46  
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If I win the Lotto, I'll BUY the FAA!
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Old 01-14-2016, 12:05 AM
  #47  
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When I win the lotto, I'm moving to Panama. B)
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Old 01-14-2016, 01:10 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
Just out of curiosity, from what point of the airport are we supposed to measure the 5 miles from? The tower? Runway? TACAN? The nearest edge of the property? The center? Many airports themselves extend for miles in all directions!
GPS uses the ARP (airport reference point). Don't know for sure, just a guess.
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Old 01-14-2016, 05:38 AM
  #49  
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Having our name, address, and already having assigned us a number, why can't the AMA just register their entire membership rolls with the FAA, and be done with it ?


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Old 01-14-2016, 03:21 PM
  #50  
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I don't think the FAA is really worried about AMA members. They are fully aware of the organization, it's guidelines and safety record. After all they have been dealing with them for nearly a century now, and their own sUAS guidelines are actually modeled after the AMAs, if not a perfect copy. It's the ignorant, uneducated and undisciplined general public they are really after.

The simple concept of registering myself as an RC pilot does not in itself bother me, and I could care less about the five dollars. It's the imminent possibility of further, unreasonable restriction that does; and the wording of that safety contract (lets call a spade a spade, that's what it is) is a good indication that the FAA definitely want's that door to be open. That's what scares me.
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