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Unsucessful maiden voyage

Old 04-10-2006, 04:26 PM
  #1  
meegosh
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Unhappy Unsucessful maiden voyage

I have finally got everything on my plane straightened out. Modded the landing gear with a coat hanger so that it gives a little more support. Then I zip tied the landing gear on because the part it went in was too loose. Fixed that all up, did a range check, observed the wind conditions and checked all my surfaces over agian. Everything was go for a launch!

I don't know why I decided to do a ROG launch but I did, I was down in a valley using the road as a runway. Started the plane off with 3/4 throttle, back end lifted up, front wheels lifted up!!! There we go, I'm almost flying. At this point I was a good 20 yards away from where I started the ROG, and about 5-7 feet in the air when I gave it a little up elevator and a huge gust picked up and sent my plane climbing straight up. Went up to about 9-10 feet in the air and gradually arched sideways back towards the ground, breaking my prop and landing gear support.

Checked everything out real quick, disconnected the battery and packed my car back up and headed to the LHS. Only to my disappointment... the LHS was out of stock of all 13" props. Checked another one, about 20 mins from the field and no luck. I gave up for the day and went to GWSexpert.com and ordered a prop saver, four 1365 props and one 1390 prop. I just now called another hobby store and they have a prop in stock and are going to save it for me!

Checked out the weather for today on usairnet.com and it looks perfect! Highest winds are approx 2 mph, IDEAL!

Needless to say I am getting in my car and flooring it to the LHS and then my house to swap my prop, then its off to the field again.

I know everyone has said a ROG is not a good idea for a beginner, is a hand launch easier? I am going to have my bro there so he can launch it for me so I can have both hands on the sticks.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-10-2006, 05:28 PM
  #2  
Matt Kirsch
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Actually, it sounds like the ROG takeoff was fairly uneventful. It was what happened AFTER the takeoff that caused the problem, and it's something that plagues beginners:

I think what happened is that you overcontrolled, gave it too much up elevator, and possibly froze when the plane did something unexpected. Keep in mind that the elevator is not the "magic up-stick." Just a little up elevator, the tiniest amount, to get the plane climbing... and don't hold the up elevator in or you will stall the plane... If the plane doesn't feel like it has enough power, cut the power and land. Don't add more up elevator in a vain attempt to make the plane climb. It won't work.

Good luck on attempt #2! I'm sure you'll do better this time Oh yeah, bring extra props!!!
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Old 04-10-2006, 05:52 PM
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EpoweredRc
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best of luck on the second try, I agree with the other one sounds like the rog was great. just over controlled or something. good luck
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Old 04-10-2006, 07:35 PM
  #4  
meegosh
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I was thinking about the over control also but I did remember not to over control the plane. That is one of the things I was focusing on. I barely, I mean barely tapped the up elevator. I think it was the gust of wind that took it straight up, when combined with the elevator.

This time I am not going to ROG out of a valley so that I won't have to pull up at all. I'm going to this field that is approx 300 yards x 600 yards completely open, except its surrounded by trees so I hope I can keep it within the boundries.

As far as lack of power, this thing is a beast, I doubt it is struggling to pull itself up in the air. Its an SS with dual 350-C motors with a 2C 1200mah LiPo pack.

So do you think I should try another ROG since it did ROG almost perfectly. It seems once the head wind picked up it literally picked up the plane. So far today has been almost perfectly calm so I am going to try my luck again.

Should I try another ROG or a hand launch for this next time? I'm just afraid if I do a hand launch that it'll be out of trim and just smash back to the ground. But it must be trimmed ok or it wouldn't have ROG'd? Correct?

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement guys, this is what makes this place great!

P.S. - I'll keep you updated!
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Old 04-10-2006, 07:53 PM
  #5  
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I'm still learning here. What is ROG?
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Old 04-10-2006, 08:03 PM
  #6  
Steve
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RUN OFF GRASS, RISE OFF GRASS.

With no wind, you should be in good shape. ROG again and I bet you'll be fine. Remember....DON'T PANIC if things don't happen as you expect them to. Keep your altitude as you sort out your trim settings
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Old 04-10-2006, 08:11 PM
  #7  
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Thanks steve.

Tom
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Old 04-10-2006, 08:16 PM
  #8  
meegosh
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Thanks guys for the encouragement. Like everyone else said, ROG = Rise off ground/grass. I think I will try another ROG and attempt to get it up to altittude so that I can adjust the trims and everything else.

Hope all goes well
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Old 04-10-2006, 09:29 PM
  #9  
Matt Kirsch
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When the plane does that nose-up thing again, try to punch in some down elevator.

The plane is also probably out of trim, so it won't fly completely straight and level the first time out. In fact, it may do something severe, so keep an eye on it. You'll have to adjust with the trim tabs.
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Old 04-10-2006, 10:59 PM
  #10  
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Hi Meegosh, sound like you're getting some helpful advice here. The problem might be what Matt said, it's trying to climb too soon. The SS is designed with incidence built-in, that is a little "UP" built into the wing/stab alignment (viewed from the side). This is a good design factor, at the typically slow speeds the model flys, it will "Float' around, if the motor quits it will glide. It will also pull itself out of a dive if the stick is released. All Good, right?
Key Words; "Slow Speeds". Increase the power (in your case, nearly double it) and it's not-so-good. The normal slight-climbing attitude is now seeing double the amount of prop wash and tries to "pitch" up before it has enough airspeed to sustain the climb; Result; Stall.
As Matt said, be ready to click in some "down" trim quickly and/or reduce throttle. Once it's airborne you should be able to fly at 1/2 power or less. As you get better you will be shooting touch-and-goes at 1/3 throttle, just a "blip" of throttle to "Go".
I'll bet that once the plane is fully trimmed, you will have 2-3 "clicks" of "Down" elevator trim. At high power (not high speed) it's trying to loop.
Just my $.02
Ron
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Old 04-10-2006, 11:20 PM
  #11  
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fwiw i prefer ROG esp for beginners.
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Old 04-10-2006, 11:40 PM
  #12  
meegosh
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Thanks for all the input guys, I spent all day on the sim again, since I'm stuck waiting for props. I will attempt to decrease the throttle a little once it gets up in the air and see if that lets her fly better.

It kind of stinks for me in my case because I did not have a spare prop on hand or I could've been back at it in less then 3 minutes. Doesn't make it any better that I had to drive to 3 different hobby stores and they all didn't have any.

I'll have plenty by the end of the week for the weekend, and I made the Hobby store order a couple anyways. Told them I would be back in a few weeks.

Thanks again guys, I'll keep you updated, and by updated... I mean ask you more questions.
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Old 04-10-2006, 11:51 PM
  #13  
Bill G
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Originally Posted by Matt Kirsch View Post
Keep in mind that the elevator is not the "magic up-stick."
One of the best lines I've heard yet.

Its like when someone asks you, "Which stick is left-right, which is up-down, and which is the gas?" (with an electric to boot!)
In this case, you have to get them out of "car driving" mode however you can.
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Old 04-10-2006, 11:56 PM
  #14  
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i think one of the hardest things to get is the requirement to point the nose down if it comes up too much.

it really goes against any instinct to fly upwards, so takes some getting used to.

Tim
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:12 AM
  #15  
Don Sims
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Steve, looks like you've done a lot of self assessing. Every time I crash one I tell myself "Crashing is a part of flying!" Hang in there, keep practicing, self assessing, and learning. These guys are giving you some great advice!
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Old 04-11-2006, 02:14 AM
  #16  
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Hey Steve Miller band, take the money and run and get tha big 'ol jet airliner up and going.

Keep at it bud, you'll get it!
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Old 04-11-2006, 02:29 AM
  #17  
Doc Pete
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You may want to try the old copter trick of pulsing the controls (not the throttle). In other words, one of the biggest problems a beginner faces is over controlling and ending making a small problem a very big one.
When the plane goes up, instead of giving and holding a command, try pushing the stick in the direction you want to correct:

Then let it center.

View what has happened.

Decide if you need more of the same control, less or
things are fine.

Input the needed control or if things are OK, let the stick alone.

Repeat this technique as often as needed to keep the machine on the course you want.


With this method, attempt to give the same amount control input, so you will learn what "that amount" of control does.
As you get better, you will learn to give the correct control faster and faster, and eventually keep the machine on a smoother path.
The whole idea of "this game" , is to input the correct amount of control fast enough so the machine never get too far off the path you want it to fly.
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:18 AM
  #18  
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Good advice Doc after all most planes fly just fine by themselve all they need is there direction changed as required
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:16 AM
  #19  
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Bill G, I still can't stop laughing. Keith
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Old 04-11-2006, 02:39 PM
  #20  
meegosh
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Thanks Doc & what_the for your feedback. I want to use everyone's input but I'm stuck playing the waiting game on the props. They shipped yesterday so hopefully they'll be here tomorrow.

I just wish I had some props to go try all your input!! I should have more than enough once they get here to stay at the field till I get it down. I also have two packs so that'll help keep me in the air longer.

Keep the input coming guys, this is the only way I learn! No instructors within 30 miles from me, so you're all stuck with me asking you guys questions! I really do appreciate all the help I've received from all of you! Thanks and keep it comin!
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:06 PM
  #21  
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Your in good company meegosh brought a smile to my face my first attempt ROG with a slow-v... full power pull back hard on elevator woosh over over she goes bent prop shaft and so forth but that made me more determined to succeed the next attempt i just gave it power and slight rudder correction and sure enough nice easy rise and once you do it right once you tick one more box on the learning curve keep at it you did ok for your first attempt.
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:15 PM
  #22  
meegosh
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Thanks for the kind words TinLid, next time out I will be extremely careful and just watch it climb rather than giving any inputs at all. Once it gets up a little I will try just tapping the up elevator and see how it reacts.

Thanks again guys! You all rock.
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Old 04-12-2006, 03:42 PM
  #23  
meegosh
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Got my props in the mail today, just a little bit ago actually. Seems like the nice spring weather is going to keep flights grounded till Saturday it seems.

I took a closer look at my SS the other day and I noticed the fuse is bent up a little right behind the motors. Should I just straighten this out with a vice and my hands? Any ideas? I'd hate to cut that piece off and have to rebalance everything.

I'll take a close up with a good digital camera and you guys can let me know what you think. It's not bent up real bad, the fuse just kind of crinkled up. It is definately positioned up higher now.
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Old 04-12-2006, 05:06 PM
  #24  
Matt Kirsch
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Carefully try to straighten it. You should be able to do it with some gentle persuasion.

If the fuse breaks, it's a tube, right? So you should be able to get a short piece of wooden dowel the right size and glue it back together with epoxy.
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Old 04-12-2006, 05:30 PM
  #25  
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If all else fails a replacement fuse is about 3 bucks at the LHS.
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