Pattern aircraft Discuss electric powered pattern aircraft in here

Commander EP 40

Old 04-02-2013, 08:15 PM
  #1  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default Commander EP 40

By "The Wings Maker" distributed by World Models

I saw the full page ad in a magazine for this foam EP Pattern style aircraft and then read a few reviews which all sounded good.

The reviews didn't rate it high enough! 99.995% pure perfection.

Its made of the common EPO foam with molded in hinges PLUS plastic hinges with metal pins. Lite Ply structural inserts for stiffening and support of the motor. Aluminum tube wing mounting with rubber band retention. Servos are mounted to hatches to hide them.

Good hardware all around except I think the threads for the clevice are an excessively coarse pitch. They do hold really well in the plastic clevices which have metal pins. 1 turn of the clevice is about equal to 6 turns on normal 2mm hardware.

The recommend a 3200 mah 4cell LiPo and a 40 amp ESC. I swiped the ESC from my Dynam 1400 mm P-51 and dropped in a 4400 mah 4 cell that I use with my Dynam 1500 mm Me 262.

The plane took off at 50% throttle and climbed like a homesick angel. 60% is enough for unlimited vertical.

I needed minor trim (couldn't tweak the surfaces exactly with the course threads for the clevices) then started doing some of the smoothest flying I have ever done. This plane does EXACTLY what your fingers tell it to do.

Recommended throws are mild and approriate for test flight. Ailerons need just a little more travel, elevator about 50% more and rudder needs all the throw you can get out of it for the plane to perform the full AMA Sportsman and Intermediate pattern sequences.

This plane should be all you could need for Sportsman. If you can't score 9's and 10's on everything its not the aircraft's fault. It should be competitive for Intermediate though its a little smaller than what the judges will be used to for that level.

I want to get a local Masters/FAI Pattern competitor to try it out to see if it can carve out those sequences. (my fingers can't do it :nogood )

Out of 3 people I have let try this plane... all 3 are ordering their own!
Its that good...

Last edited by fhhuber; 04-02-2013 at 08:43 PM. Reason: added hyperlnk
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-03-2013, 12:09 AM
  #2  
riot3d
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7
Default

I've been flying this design for over 4 months now - since last December, & agree with you this is indeed a very solid plane. Mine is completely stock with Wing's motor & ESC, 3,300 mAh battery.

One of the reason why it's so solid - without wing flexing - is because the wing tube is actually carbon fiber. It's long enough that it adds rigidity to the wing. Also, the EPO foam is better than EPP.

I'm a FAI pilot, & have no trouble flying the current P-13 sequence - in calm weather - rolls & snaps fairly clean. Obviously, it struggles somewhat when it's windy. Especially, those tall, turn around maneuvers.

Wing's recommended a 11x8 prop, but I've been experimenting with both a 12x6 & a 11x7 APC. In addition, be sure to balance the prop. Also, test & see whether there is any vibration on the ground before installing the spinner cone by advancing the throttle gently. Then, install the cone & test again. If there is vibration, turn the cone 180 degrees, install & test again, you should be able to find the sweet spot.

Adrian
riot3d is offline  
Old 04-03-2013, 12:19 AM
  #3  
riot3d
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7
Default

Here are some pix of my three Commander - the prototype, the production EPO version, & the wood Super Taiji which the Commander based on.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	592
Size:	88.3 KB
ID:	167591  
riot3d is offline  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:25 AM
  #4  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

FH,

Dang, another one to add to the list. Looked at the manual. Very nice. I'm not a pattern pilot but love the planes for the sport aerobatics. Just building a GWS Formosa II which is pale in comparison to this one. The kit build Mosa more closely resembles a scratchbuild, but , it's my way of dipping my toe into the pattern ship world. Would like to learn more about pattern. Will follow this thread and look for vids. What do they ding you for shipping?

Cheers,

Hawk
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-03-2013, 04:48 AM
  #5  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

My Commander which is the version with servos and motor came to just over 175 shipped.

Then I stole the Dynam ESC out of my 1400 mm Dynam P-51 and slapped in the 4S 4000 I use in my Dynam Me262.

I also stole the RX from the Mustang (purchased RTF package on that one) to have the plane on a right handed radio

SkyLiPo 20C 4000 mah 4S and the Commander likes em. Appx $32 each pack.
$13 ESC...

I normally fly Mode III (Throttle and rudder on the right) and can't share my toys that are bound to the DX-18

Todd Blose (Pattern guys should know that name) isn't too far away and he used to visit our club a couple of weekends a year... I'll see if I can get his hands on the sticks for this plane. He's "good people".
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-08-2013, 02:20 AM
  #6  
riot3d
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7
Default

Practicing some low altitude knife edge flying at the field this afternoon ...
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1363.JPG
Views:	455
Size:	60.4 KB
ID:	167678  
riot3d is offline  
Old 04-08-2013, 02:54 AM
  #7  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

After I get a little experience with the Mosa II , I'll be going for the Commander EP. Probably the kit version. The manual looks really good. Have a lot of sweat equity in the Mosa II build right now. It's borderline scratchbuild IMO. Way too many parts and mods. Lots of epoxy.

Then again , we have a 3DHS sponsered event 4/19-4/21 where they are going to be raffling off planes. Could be, might be... a winner.

-Hawk
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-08-2013, 04:17 AM
  #8  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

We can't leave well enough alone...

Not putting on one stock decal. I'll soon have pics of 3 custom airbrushed Commanders.

#1 is a simple black and white scheme. (completed)

#2 (mine) will have a red, white and blue Texas Flag motif (masked for the blue, partly masked for red)

#3 will be yellow + black stripes on belly, red top with details still being considered. (yellow paint done)

First airbrushing I've done in almost 25 years...
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-08-2013, 04:28 AM
  #9  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

Fh,

I like #2 ! Wish I had that skill.

Can't wait to see pics.

-Hawk
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-08-2013, 05:21 AM
  #10  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

The main skill is... working with masking tape :p
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 03:55 AM
  #11  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

Bad news...

The 2 planes my friends received have both had motor failures.
Both had magnets shift.

One's magnets shifted in flight while he was making a run through the AMA Sportsman Pattern sequence. Loud screech from the motor and he promptly shut down the throttle for landing. Appears to have 2 magnets shifted and chipped.
This plane was using a Dynam 40 amp ESC and Sky LiPo 3300 mah 4S 20C (recommended is 40 amp ESC + 4S 3200 mah LiPo) Stock prop supplied with the package deal (Plane, motor, servos)
just the one flight on the airplane.... it was doing well until the motor started screaming.

Second didn't even pass a motor run-up test on the ground. Spun the motor up and at appx 1/2 throttle there was a loud bang out of the motor and the Castle Thunderbird 54 ESC smoked. Motor grinds badly when hand turned and appears to have on magnet broken.
Stock prop that came with the combo deal as above.

2 bad motors out of 3 planes...

My motor hasn't been pushed past 2/3 throttle yet...

I ran into similar failures with Turnigy motors and it turned out they were using low temp hot melt glue (120 F to melt) to hold the magnets in.

*************

Love the foam airframe... Not sure the package deal is such a good deal.

Looking at Tacon motors from Nitroplanes.com as replacements. They have a reasonable reputation and they have a motor that is the same size as the one in this package deal with slightly higher kv and 20% higher watt rating.
This is the closest motor I have found so far.
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 04:14 AM
  #12  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

Fh,

That's a disturbing story on the motors. Sounds like a bad batch. Do they sell the Commander in Kit w/out motor or ESC ? My favorite all time motor supplier is Headsuprc.com Great selection, fair prices and $2.00 shipping. Support what they sell.

-Hawk
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-12-2013, 05:28 AM
  #13  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

Yes the version without motor or servos is about $70 cheaper.
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-13-2013, 04:43 AM
  #14  
riot3d
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7
Default

There might be a possibility that the stock motor & after market ESC has a compatibility issue.

I have been using the stock ESC & motor with the 11x8, 11x7 & 12x6 prop since December without any problem.

Adrian
riot3d is offline  
Old 04-18-2013, 05:55 PM
  #15  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

Any motor that doesn't get along with a Castle ESC has problems....

When the magnets come free from the bell (using stock prop and recommended battery) its always the motor having issues with the glue holding the magnets in. The windings should fail before the magnets come free due to heat.

**************

No issues with the airframe itself. (this type foam guarantees a model that will be strong)

Airbrushed schemes unlimited...
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	combat n commander 001a.jpg
Views:	493
Size:	241.5 KB
ID:	167931   Click image for larger version

Name:	combat n commander 002a.jpg
Views:	462
Size:	229.3 KB
ID:	167932   Click image for larger version

Name:	combat n commander 036a.jpg
Views:	461
Size:	328.1 KB
ID:	167933   Click image for larger version

Name:	combat n commander 037a.jpg
Views:	459
Size:	312.0 KB
ID:	167934  
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-19-2013, 05:52 AM
  #16  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

FH

Fellow Texan-

Come on up to the 3DHS Fly-Low in. It's open flying. Starts tomorrow. Grapevine, TX http://www.114thrc.org/ Will have food and there will be some world class Pattern/ 3D pilots there. Bring the Commander. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on that plane. I believe there's even a raffle.

I need to study the motor requirements a little more for the Commander. Length and dia, min. watts required, KV. Have plenty of esc's in the 40-100 range and have a couple of 4S Zippys. I have mini servo's at my disposal. Suppose I could also take twin 11.1 V 3S 2200 30C thin zippy's a run them in serial for a 6S setup. Wow !

The Tacon Motor. Is this the one youe were considering as a replacing to the stock motor? http://www.nitroplanes.com/96m604-bi...520-770kv.html

I'm going for the kit version and want to properly spec out the motor.


Take care and come on up to DFW !

-Hawk

There's a guy from San Antonio who moderates 3DRC forums bringing his 3DHS 48" Super Vyper to sell. Want's $325.00 A little, I mean a lot over my budget but it's fully loaded and comes with lots of extra stuff. Kind of hybrid between a pattern plane and 3D.

Last edited by dahawk; 04-19-2013 at 03:27 PM.
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-19-2013, 03:56 PM
  #17  
CrimzonRider
Fastest PropHead Crasher
 
CrimzonRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NW Oklahoma
Posts: 1,308
Default

FH,

Good lookin Texas themed 40, good job on airbrushing

have a good one
cr


p.s. "I see 3D people" @ 114th!
CrimzonRider is offline  
Old 04-19-2013, 04:11 PM
  #18  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

CR,

I'm headed over there in a bit. Won't fly today. Just gonna watch the 3D aces and have a burger

-Hawk
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-19-2013, 04:55 PM
  #19  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

We ordered 3 of these:
http://www.nitroplanes.com/96m603-bi...826-870kv.html

We measured the original motor.
This is just a couple of mm smaller dia. and about 5 mm longer. (shaft is the same total length so there's an issue with ensuring the spinner does not hit the foam)

2 bolts holes match up the other 2 on this replacement motor are closer to the shaft.

There is essentially no room to go with a larger dia than the original motor.

****************

Grapevine is a bit beyond my normal travel range... about 150 miles.
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-20-2013, 02:32 AM
  #20  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

Are you saying these motors you will fit or is there a concern that they will not? confused... Awesome day watching the 3D guys from 3DHS today. Man, can they fly !
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-20-2013, 02:50 AM
  #21  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

The motors we bought fit with just relocating 2 holes in the firewall.

Anything larger dia than the OEM package deal's motor... avoid.
OEM is 38mm dia
The Tacons we got are 35mm dia (and 100 watts higher rated than the package deal motor... big jump from 450 to 550 watts.)
The Tacon you linked is 45mm dia and if it fits I would be very surprised.

We got some flying in today with one of the Tacon replacements... more power than the original shows. Used an APC 12X6. (slightly less load than the OEM 11X8 at the same RPM, but the Tacon turns higher rpm)
About the same top speed in level. Much better authority in vertical. Better down line braking.
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-20-2013, 02:42 PM
  #22  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

Thanks FH,

Headed back to the 3DHS event today. Met Ben yesterday. Great guys but their gear is over my RC budget. Some really outstanding young pilots here including Joe Smith who's in all the mags and you tubes. Raffle today. Who knows?

I also met Gary from San Antonio. He's active USAF and a Predator instructor. Only RC airplane where you can legally fire missiles-LOL Almost bought his 3DHS Super Vyper which is a hybrid between a pattern and 3D plane. Wanted $300.00 and for me? It's still a 48" plane though it's fully loaded with top notch electrics. The value in the Commander seems better and I have the servos in waiting. If I win the lottery, I may get a 3DHS plane but then I want a big one. +60" WS. Thanks for the info on the Tacon replacement motor. Did you have to use blind nuts for relocating the two holes in the firewall?

Back to the event ! Breakfast Burritos

-Hawk
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-20-2013, 03:21 PM
  #23  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
Thread Starter
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

Just a drill for the new holes. It might be a little easier dowel plugging the 2 old holes that won't be used as the drill wanted to slip into them. I started with a much smaller bit and increased bit size in steps.

Changed spinner to a Great Planes 2.5 inch with the aluminum backplate which allows slightly more air to get through the motor.

We tuck the ESCs down under the motor so they are in the airflow through the chin scoop.

***********

Noted something yesterday... High G outside maneuvers can pop the canopy. We'll be looking at how to put in a mechanical latch to back up the magnets. Possibly the battery can stretch the velcro straps just enough to push the canopy off.

We are also changing to using a ply plate and 4-40 screw + blind nut to hold the wings on. Its a bit tight in there to thread the rubber bands in place. This is just a personal preference thing.
fhhuber is offline  
Old 04-20-2013, 03:39 PM
  #24  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

Thanks again,

LOL- Just ordered motor and haven't even ordered the plane yet ! Going for kit version. Don't know how involved the build is but can't be any worse than the GWS Formosa II. The manual looks good.

Off to watch the pro's fly. I won't live long enough to get than good.

-Hawk
dahawk is offline  
Old 04-22-2013, 02:13 PM
  #25  
dahawk
Super Contributor
 
dahawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 5,019
Default

Well,

I hope the motor I ordered will fit in the 3DHD Super Vyper I won on Saturday !

dahawk is offline  

Quick Reply: Commander EP 40


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.15201 seconds with 18 queries