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Sweet! New E-Flite Hawker Sea Fury - Retracts Included

Old 02-17-2009, 05:43 PM
  #151  
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*sigh* I'd believe it.

Matt, ever think about moving to the states? My neighbor's house is for sale and I'd make a great next door neighbor.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:14 PM
  #152  
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Hey Dave, I forgot to say "congratulations" on the successful maiden! All this Sea Fury talk has got me thinking about getting mine back in the air. I only wish I had a better place to fly it. I don't have many paved areas to fly from nearby.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:19 PM
  #153  
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Thanks, Doug! I appreciate it. Are you going to mount that 2814-08 motor in it, or did you decide to save that for the Waco?

Runway-schrumway ... hand land her and just try and get her down extra soft!
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:25 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
Thanks, Doug! I appreciate it. Are you going to mount that 2814-08 motor in it, or did you decide to save that for the Waco?

Runway-schrumway ... hand land her and just try and get her down extra soft!
I think I will order myself a new Cobri gearbox to fit the 28mm inrunner I already have. Then I'll bench test it with the 5 bladed vario and see how it works. If I'm not happy with it, I'll go with the 2814 and maybe just use the inrunner in the Waco.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:36 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
I think I will order myself a new Cobri gearbox to fit the 28mm inrunner I already have. Then I'll bench test it with the 5 bladed vario and see how it works. If I'm not happy with it, I'll go with the 2814 and maybe just use the inrunner in the Waco.
Just changed my mind. I took the old motor and gearbox out and found that both the spur gear and pinion gear are shot. No big deal as I was going to change them anyway, but it got me thinking that maybe the big VarioProp 5-blader is just too much for a gearbox. It is going to cost me at least $30 just for a new Cobri gearbox, and for that I could just buy another BP 2814-08 for the Waco. So 2814 is going in this morning. The weather is great today, so I should have a flight report later on. I'm going to try it with a 10x8 2-bladed prop to start. Should be interesting with that much power up front
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Old 02-21-2009, 09:32 PM
  #156  
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Default BP 2814-08 mounting

Okay, she's ready to fly

With the stock 10x8 it pulls 35 amps with a 2200mAh 25c lipo. I've only got a 32 amp ESC in there, so hopefully it will unload some in the air

The mounting was fairly easy, though to use the outrunner stick mount that comes with the kit, I had to drill a larger hole in the back of the mount for the motor shaft collar to extend into. I also used the metal spacers that were included with the mounting hardware to hold the motor out in front of the mount a little. I had to cut the stick way back so that the motor mount is pretty much flush with the firewall, but that's okay. It's a perfect fit that way, and the short stick will cut down on vibrations created by a less-than-perfectly balanced prop and spinner. Balance is perfect with a 180 gram battery pushed all the way forward.

I'm off to to fly now. See ya!
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:56 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
Okay, she's ready to fly

With the stock 10x8 it pulls 35 amps with a 2200mAh 25c lipo. I've only got a 32 amp ESC in there, so hopefully it will unload some in the air

The mounting was fairly easy, though to use the outrunner stick mount that comes with the kit, I had to drill a larger hole in the back of the mount for the motor shaft collar to extend into. I also used the metal spacers that were included with the mounting hardware to hold the motor out in front of the mount a little. I had to cut the stick way back so that the motor mount is pretty much flush with the firewall, but that's okay. It's a perfect fit that way, and the short stick will cut down on vibrations created by a less-than-perfectly balanced prop and spinner. Balance is perfect with a 180 gram battery pushed all the way forward.

I'm off to to fly now. See ya!

Ooh! Ooh! Report! Report! I just picked up my 2814 and the Suppo 40A ESC from the Post Office this morning.

Good thing you have flying weather. I was up at 7 this morning hoping to get a few flights in before the forecasted 35mph gusts - it was already 5-10 but steady so I said scrooit, I need to fly! I put two packs through my latest profile 3D ship and somehow on the third managed to use an already discharged pack... I was at about 70 feet when the LVC kicked in (odd when you aren't expecting it) and my valiant attempt to 'dead stick the brick' back over the cattle fence in a now gusting wind failed by about 18 inches. BONK into the fencepost. No worries, clean break, already epoxied back together hahah

Anyways - make with the flight log! I am tying to decide which project to start next, my DWFoamies 48" Juka or the Sea Fury.

Josh
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:04 AM
  #158  
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Had an excellent day of flying today! I loaded up the mini van with planes and batteries and flew all afternoon under blue skies in light winds with a whole bunch of other guys. And the Sea Fury runs GREAT with the 2814!!! I had Sabre Hawk video tape it for me, but the dang thing flew so fast he couldn't keep up with it. He shot about 5 minutes of video but there are maybe 2 minutes with the plane actually in the field of view Oh well, thanks for trying Chuck

So yeah, this motor is just awesome. It will fly with authority at half throttle, and at WOT, it's a rocket ship! Vertical is unlimited Since it balances with no additional weight, it also slows down real nice. Stalling it from level flight was nearly impossible. I tried a couple of landings in the grass and it tipped forward onto its back both times. The paved area is kind of small, but after a couple tries I was getting it down smoothly no problem.

I like this plane a lot better with this motor and prop combo. Get yours in the air Josh!
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:03 AM
  #159  
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Huzzah! Awesome to hear about your flight, Doug! And Josh ... how stoked are you now after two separate reports where "awesome" is the word of choice to describe this motor and plane? I think we all know which project needs to take the front seat.

It's also fun to read and see how people problem solve things. Me, I get all annoyed because the shaft collar is too thick and rubs against the motor mount, so I go buy 2mm longer screws and add in some extra washers. Doug looks at the same problem and goes, hey, let's just make the hole bigger. Faster solution than driving to the hobby store for metric screws, that's for sure. =D Plus I wouldn't mind my motor sitting another 2mm further back to get the prop a little closer to the cowl.

I really want to put Suppo 2814-08 motors on all my similar-sized warbirds now.

Really great to hear such a good flight report, Doug, and thanks for posting some numbers since I had no idea what I was pulling with the same setup.

- Dave
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:13 AM
  #160  
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Yeah, I wondered if I was getting any of it, it was going so fast.
Plus I could only sight it looking over the top of the camera as I couldnt see it in the screen at all given it's color.
Fast planes are indeed hard to video well.

But guys it did fly extemely well, and looked very nice up there to the naked eye. And Doug flew it very well too, that helps a lot!

Gosh I sure hope we have another day like saturday next weekend!
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:10 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by Sabrehawk View Post
Yeah, I wondered if I was getting any of it, it was going so fast.
Plus I could only sight it looking over the top of the camera as I couldnt see it in the screen at all given it's color.
Fast planes are indeed hard to video well.

But guys it did fly extemely well, and looked very nice up there to the naked eye. And Doug flew it very well too, that helps a lot!

Gosh I sure hope we have another day like saturday next weekend!
Sunday turned out to be pretty nice too. It was supposed to rain, but I never felt any more than a few wayward drops. The wind was a little gusty but it tappered off to dead calm by about 4 PM.

I put another battery through the Sea Fury and spent a good amount of the time working on my landings. Tried one time to get it down on the baseball infield, but it nosed over again. So I took it off again and walked over to the pavement with the plane circling above and made 10 or 12 circuits. All but one landing was good. On my second attempt, I hit the edge of the pavement trying to set it down on the numbers . I must say, the retracts are tough, because by all accounts that landing should have ripped them out

I am still having difficulty with one of the retracts. It locks up just fine when I'm holding the plane in my hand, but in the air it won't stay retracted. Flying slow, it stays up, but for some reason it won't lock. With some airspeed, it starts to come down and makes a clicking noise, which I can only assume is the servo stalling. In a power dive, it extends about 30 degrees I may try installing a new servo. I am using Dynam 9 gram servos for the retracts, which are really not very good. At least they keep the gear down and locked for landing.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:22 PM
  #162  
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Do you have your gear servos going into a Y-connector, Doug? And are you using any kind of servo-slow mechanism or radio setting on them?
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:33 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by PerlAddict View Post
Do you have your gear servos going into a Y-connector, Doug? And are you using any kind of servo-slow mechanism or radio setting on them?
I have a 7 channel Tx, but I use a 6 channel Sombra Labs Rx in the Sea Fury. I chose to install each retract servo on a seperate channel so I could fine tune them seperately (highly recommended even though I am having problems with mine due to using cheap servos). I did buy a servo slow down unit, but it only controls one servo so I never installed it. I have seen a slow down unit that has 2 channel input and output that I wish I would have seen before buying the one I have.

With retracts on 2 channels, there is only one left over for ailerons. To give me some mechanical differential, I installed the servo arms at a slight forward angle. That makes the ailerons deflect up more than down, which keeps rolls more axial. It seems to work.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:08 PM
  #164  
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I did the same as you, Doug. Bummer ... I was hoping you'd say, "No, they're on one channel and I'm going to try moving them to separate ones" and have yourself an easy fix. Only reason I asked about the servo slow is that when I programmed in slower travel times for the retracts on my radio, I found the little SG90 servos didn't have enough "oomph" to lock them in the up position (well, unless I rolled the plane upside down before retracting the landing gear once I got airborne). I ended up just barely slowing them down so they didn't slam, but they're definitely not scale speed going up and down.

I've got a Hyperion servo slow on my Me-109 that's attached to an HS-81 for the retracts, and it works beautifully. Of course, the retracts were a bit more of a pain to set up with two units being driven by the single servo.

Can you not take a y-connector and use it to hook up two servos to a servo slow module? I'm assuming not, but I'm not sure ... wait. Just hit me as I typed it out. Ha. You'd need one servo to be a reversed servo if you did that so they'd both move in the same direction.

That's a really good idea on the servo arm installation. Shame I already CA'd that big wing panel cover on. Heh. I was thinking how nice it would be to have one more channel available so I could split up the ailerons and program in some differential after my first flight. Oh well ... such is hindsight! I haven't had a single warbird that would roll dead on its axis aside from my PZ FW-190, which is kinda of funny since that's the "cheapy" of all my warbirds. I'd love to get the Sea Fury set up to roll like that, but I can live with the barrel rolls for now.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:36 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
I have a 7 channel Tx, but I use a 6 channel Sombra Labs Rx in the Sea Fury. I chose to install each retract servo on a seperate channel so I could fine tune them seperately (highly recommended even though I am having problems with mine due to using cheap servos). I did buy a servo slow down unit, but it only controls one servo so I never installed it. I have seen a slow down unit that has 2 channel input and output that I wish I would have seen before buying the one I have.

With retracts on 2 channels, there is only one left over for ailerons. To give me some mechanical differential, I installed the servo arms at a slight forward angle. That makes the ailerons deflect up more than down, which keeps rolls more axial. It seems to work.
That's what I did. I tried to mix them on 1 channel, but couldn't get the throw needed. The manual claims you can do it, but I'm not real computer radio mix saavy.
Yes, without the slow down, my retracts move very scale.
I used HS55 servos on the retracts, which from what you said, I'm glad I did. Fine tuning to remove jitter is sensitive.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:08 PM
  #166  
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For the wing pannel, I used silicone adhesive (Dap brand) instead of the completely useless velcro pads. It works really well. The stuff sticks to anything, but can be peeled away without doing much damage, if any, to the foam. For the pannel all you need is 10 or 12 well placed drops all the way around (as opposed to a solid bead). I was also using it to afix the gear doors to the wire landing gear legs. It flexes with the wire and holds tight. Unfortunately, I initially thought the aerodynamics of the gear doors were causing the one to pull down in flight, so I pulled them off less than carefully only to find that it made no difference. Now I have to make new ones
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Old 02-25-2009, 02:42 AM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
Sounds like a good setup, if not a little expensive. I tend to go the non-brand name route and so-far-so-good with reliability.

The newer Phoenix 25's have a 3 amp BEC, but the older ones had just 1.5 amps, so double check to make sure it says 3 amps on it. If you weren't running a Spektrum Rx, I would say you are safe with that. Spextrum Rx's are sensitive to voltage sags, so you might want to put an UBEC in there to be safe. A Park 480 will push a 25 amp ESC to its limit, and if the BEC is also pushed to its limit that COULD result in a thermal overload of the ESC. Good cooling will help, but the best insurance is a UBEC.

Good luck with your build!
Thanks for the good info! I haven't used a park 480 1020kv before so I wasn't sure if the Phoenix 25 would be ok, as it said 28A burst and I figured I'd rarely hit WOT. Better safe than sorry though lol. Mine is the 3A BEC version however I totally get that if the ESC is pushed + the BEC is pushed _or_ the BEC gets overloaded w/my spektrum RX I'm asking for trouble. I'm having issues w/the retract servos buzzing here & there and drawing current whether the retracts are up or down. Fiddling w/endpoints on the radio fixes it however it doesn't last long. I'll have to keep playing w/that.

So far I'm mostly done w/the rest of the build just need to figure out a final "solution" on the silly wing panel. I removed the adhesive from the velcro and am planning on hot gluing the pads in. I don't plan to use the included sticky tape. I could pickup one of the suggested adhesives or use a bit of servo tape or hot glue.

I also have a CC BEC and a Phoenix 35 so I can use either / both if necessary. Just wish I could get these retracts dialed.
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Old 02-25-2009, 02:54 AM
  #168  
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Oh I should have mentioned currently I'm testing with retract servos on seperate channels, so I would have to use a "Y" for my ailerons. I do also want to have the servos rate reduced, I'm trying to figure out if I'm better off with retracts on individual channels + 2 rate reducers, or using a reversing "Y" + a single rate reducer. Kinda lost here lol. Not sure if ailerons on seperate channels are more important than retracts on seperate channels. Using an ar6100e + dx6i.

For the final powerplant I'm leaning towards the Phoenix 35 + the CC BEC given the servos I'm using. Thanks as always for the advice & support!
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:00 AM
  #169  
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Easy solution if you want to slow down the servo rates on two separate servos: use the Hyperion Servo Slow: http://www.quietrcflying.com/Product...d=HP-SERVOSLOW

That way you don't have to fool with reversing Y-cables, which I don't completely trust anyway.
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:02 AM
  #170  
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Also, while I'd use both the 35A ESC and the separate BEC, be sure to read this bulletin from Castle Creations about using their BEC's with Spektrum receivers (only applies to older CC BEC's pre-Nov 2007): http://www.castlecreations.com/products/cc_bec.html (bottom of the page)
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:05 AM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by *rider View Post
Oh I should have mentioned currently I'm testing with retract servos on seperate channels, so I would have to use a "Y" for my ailerons. I do also want to have the servos rate reduced, I'm trying to figure out if I'm better off with retracts on individual channels + 2 rate reducers, or using a reversing "Y" + a single rate reducer. Kinda lost here lol. Not sure if ailerons on seperate channels are more important than retracts on seperate channels. Using an ar6100e + dx6i.

For the final powerplant I'm leaning towards the Phoenix 35 + the CC BEC given the servos I'm using. Thanks as always for the advice & support!
I think retracts on seperate channels is the way to go. Yeah, being able to program in some aileron differential is nice, but being able to adjust the retract servo endpoints is much more important, plus that way you won't need a reversing Y. Somewhere I saw a rate reducer that had 2 channel input and output for just a few dollars more than a single channel rate reducer. If I find it again I will post a link.
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:09 AM
  #172  
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Thanks for the spot-on info PerlAddict!
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:14 AM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Fly Time View Post
I think retracts on seperate channels is the way to go. Yeah, being able to program in some aileron differential is nice, but being able to adjust the retract servo endpoints is much more important, plus that way you won't need a reversing Y. Somewhere I saw a rate reducer that had 2 channel input and output for just a few dollars more than a single channel rate reducer. If I find it again I will post a link.
Cool, then I will go w/retracts on separate channels and add a rate reducing solution later on, and use a "Y" on the ailerons. I will wire up the Phoenix-35 + CC BEC, which is the new version w/new firmware and hopefully finish this project tonight I need the mental space + workbench back!
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:17 AM
  #174  
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Here's the dual channel slow down unit I saw before. This is what you'll need to use a 2 channel retract set up.
http://www.dionysusdesign.com/produc...c50ef3ce8fcea4
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:25 AM
  #175  
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Perfect, thank you! I'll plan to order one shortly.
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