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Flying the Super Cub

Old 08-17-2008, 06:03 PM
  #26  
Sabrehawk
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Hehe, agreed Ed...............movin on.

Gosh im glad to see im not the only one who'll just pack up and take'em home in one piece while I still can due to winds being more than I think is safe. It's not being a wimp, or chicken its just plain smart.
And a good indicator is if my planes are being blown backward sitting on the ground. If a full scale pilot, arrived at the airport and upon releasing the tie downs his plane gets blown across the tarmac you can bet he wont be going up, and the airport wouldnt let him.

I've got one of those electronic wind meters I keep with me and have it up at every flying session. And you should see the number of fellows who constantly are going over to my Jeep to check it.
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Old 08-17-2008, 06:25 PM
  #27  
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Default My notes on the SuperCub

JK,
I have 2 SC's... One I've now had for nearly 2 years... Here's some tips that have helped me -

1. Apply clear packing tape to the leading edges of the wing, wing tips, and wing center section. Helps reducing dents, chips, etc. on those "less than perfect" landings.

2. Put on some larger wheels. I use Dubro Lite 2 1/4" wheels. You'll need to add a bushing (I used some small scrap brass tubing of the right diameter) to get the wheels to fit properly.

3. On take off, apply full throttle and small amount of up elevator. This plane will want to climb naturally. If the nose up angle gets higher than around 30 degrees, back off on the elevator or add a touch of down elevator to lower the nose a bit. Remember small control movements. There'll be a slight lag between when you move the stick and the plane's response.

4. Let the plane gain altitude (30 - 50 feet) before turning. Use rudder to start into the turn. Once the plane banks slightly, add a little elevator and back off the rudder. More elevator will tighten up the turn. Use the rudder to control the bank angle. Coming out of the turn, release the stick. You can also add opposite rudder and a touch of down elevator to exit the turn more cleanly. Remember, small control movements.

5. Let the plane climb to around 100 feet. This seems to be a good altitude to see what the plane is doing and allows some room for mistakes. Back off the throttle to 2/3 - 1/2 and use the transmitter trim tabs to control the plane for straight level flight.

6. Practice making ovals with the upwind leg of the oval over the area you intend to land. Start thinking about landing after 3 or 4 minutes. It'll probably take several attempts/go arounds and you want to make sure you've got plenty of power in reserve.

7. On landing, reduce the throttle to decrease altitude. I usually like to be 25 - 30 feet on the downwind leg of the oval before making my final approach. Turn upwind into the landing area and set the throttle to minimum. It glides quite well and has a low stall speed. If necessary, add a little up elevator to slow it down on approach. If it's out of attitude (not lined up, too high, too low etc.) or you're not comfortable ( ) with the approach, throttle up and go around for another attempt. At about 1-2 feet, slowly start adding up elevator to slow it down further and flare. Too much elevator will cause it to "balloon" up. Remember, small stick movements and try not to panic if it's not in the right attitude. You can always throttle up and go around for another attempt.

Good luck! Don't give up! When you finally get it, you'll be grinning from ear to ear for hours...
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:51 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Sabrehawk View Post
Hehe, agreed Ed...............movin on.

Gosh im glad to see im not the only one who'll just pack up and take'em home in one piece while I still can due to winds being more than I think is safe. It's not being a wimp, or chicken its just plain smart.
And a good indicator is if my planes are being blown backward sitting on the ground. If a full scale pilot, arrived at the airport and upon releasing the tie downs his plane gets blown across the tarmac you can bet he wont be going up, and the airport wouldnt let him.

I've got one of those electronic wind meters I keep with me and have it up at every flying session. And you should see the number of fellows who constantly are going over to my Jeep to check it.
Hey friend, what kind of wind meter do you have? I've been wanting to get one to throw in my field box, but the ones I have seen are just so expensive. Are there any out there that are accurate and in good quality that don't cost an arm and a leg? Thanks.

Mike
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:05 PM
  #29  
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That's a great question.....anyone know where to get an inexpensive wind meter? If so, where & about how much please?
Zoo ~~~^..^~~~
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:22 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by jksecunda View Post
That is very good advice. I did go out this morning at 7am. No wind. Perfect weather. My only problem is knowing what to do when the plane is in the air. I KNOW that when you first get it up, it needs to be trimmed so it goes straight before anymore flying is done. Is that right? As soon as I get it up, I get anxious and forget that part, flying around willy nilly then running into a tree or a not so perfect landing. I was up again today, ran into a tree branch, fell to the ground, and that was the end of a 2 minute flight. Then it was back to the house to repair whatever it was that needed repaired. I am getting a little frustrated, but not ready to give up yet. I will try again tonite if there is no wind.
GET HELP...............before you give up. No shame in getting help. This is not a natural thing to be able to do. We can say do this and do that but since we are not there we can't really help that much. It might be as simple as your trim being off or a wing warp its really hard to tell on line. My buddy bought a Super Cub and tried to fly it for his daughter. Right into the ground. It had a bad servo out of the box. If you feel you can do it by yourself great but you still might want to have someone with the knowledge to look your plane over. Just my 2 cents

That is some really good advice from dk aero. The one thing I would add when you are landing or anytime the plane is coming at you move the stick to the low wing do not think left or right look at the wing and move your stick to what ever wing tip is low. This seems to really helps someone new to flying.
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Old 08-17-2008, 11:51 PM
  #31  
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Airmail wf makes a good point jksecunda. Also, have you ever thought about joining a local club? It would be more beneficial than you know. You would have face to face help from experienced pilots as well as good making new friends who have a world of knowledge and tricks of the trade.

Like airmail wf said, don't give up! We'll be here to help you get to where you want to be friend. No one here's gonna give up on you bud. We WILL get you flying!

Mike
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:04 AM
  #32  
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Two more suggestions:

1. Read these threads several times

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31368

2. Consider using a simulator like FMS (free) to get some more stick time without risking your model (or go into a LHS and try one of their simulators)

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3893




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Old 08-18-2008, 12:08 AM
  #33  
jksecunda
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Originally Posted by Angler-Hi View Post
Airmail wf makes a good point jksecunda. Also, have you ever thought about joining a local club? It would be more beneficial than you know. You would have face to face help from experienced pilots as well as good making new friends who have a world of knowledge and tricks of the trade.

Like airmail wf said, don't give up! We'll be here to help you get to where you want to be friend. No one here's gonna give up on you bud. We WILL get you flying!

Mike
Thanks Mike. I tried a going to a club meeting a couple weeks ago, but did not get much help from the trainers. Thats why I am trying to learn on my own. I know its much harder to do, but i am determined to do this. Its windy tonight, and in the words of a few of you guys here, I will wait for another day.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:15 AM
  #34  
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Sorry to hear about your experience in regards to the club friend. I too learned on my own, with the exception of million posts and questions. I have the skills I do today because of the great folks here at WF. They're the ones that wouldn't give up on me and wouldn't let me quit. Today, I have in my hangar, an Ultimate Bipe, HL Gee Bee Senior Sportster, E-Flite P-47, Haikong Spitfire, HL F-18, Kyosho Intruder EDF and two GWS ME-109s. I fly these planes with confidence and am very comfortable...all with the help of our fellow members.

As far as learning to fly the planes, I did that mostly on my own. Some days are better than others. You just gotta hang in there. Good job on waiting for another day with better conditions! That's always a decision you won't regret. Good winds jeff.

Mike
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:34 AM
  #35  
jksecunda
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Mike...Thanks for the positive note.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:58 AM
  #36  
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No problem Jeff.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:04 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by jksecunda View Post
Thanks Mike. I tried a going to a club meeting a couple weeks ago, but did not get much help from the trainers. Thats why I am trying to learn on my own. I know its much harder to do, but i am determined to do this. Its windy tonight, and in the words of a few of you guys here, I will wait for another day.

Good move not top fly in the wind. Take a look at FMS and consider getting your Transmitter wired up to your computer so you are using the actual control sticks.



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Old 08-18-2008, 01:28 AM
  #38  
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If you are a new pilot, the two toughes things to do are take off and land. So paractice those.

Take-off, fly one circuit around the field, then land. Do it again - 20, 30, 40 times till it becomes automatic.

Now you can do other stuff.

Yes, when you get the plane into the air, make sure it is properly trimmed. This is called a trim flight. All you want to accomplish is make sure the plane is properly trimmed.

Take off, trim, test, retrim, land. Check things.

Take off, test the trim, confirm the trim, retrim if needed, land.

Now you can proceed with the rest of your take-off and landing drills.

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Old 08-18-2008, 01:42 AM
  #39  
jksecunda
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Ed, can you be more specfic on the following sentence.

Take off, trim, test, retrim, land. Check things.

I get the take off and trim part. What am I testing, and then retrimming again. And Checking things. Not sure what you are talking about.

Otherwise, very good advise to take off and land to practice.

Thanks
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:47 AM
  #40  
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YIPES!! Ya got yer work cut out for ya Ed.....
Originally Posted by jksecunda View Post
Ed, can you be more specfic on the following sentence.

Take off, trim, test, retrim, land. Check things.

I get the take off and trim part. What am I testing, and then retrimming again. And Checking things. Not sure what you are talking about.

Otherwise, very good advise to take off and land to practice.

Thanks
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:24 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by jksecunda View Post
Ed, can you be more specfic on the following sentence.

Take off, trim, test, retrim, land. Check things.

I get the take off and trim part. What am I testing, and then retrimming again. And Checking things. Not sure what you are talking about.

Otherwise, very good advise to take off and land to practice.

Thanks
Trimming your plane
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

Your having problems flying your plane. Your problems may be your flying or it may be that the plane is out of trim. If it is out of trim or if any of the components can move around inside the plane, all your skills will be used fighting these problems, not flying the plane. Here is how we will find out. If you have an experienced pilot to help you with this, all the better, but you can do this on your own if you have patience.

When I coach new pilots, we spend a lot of time trimming the plane first. I may fly it 10 times before I give them the sticks. It must fly properly or they have little chance of success.

Balance

If the plane is not properly balanced everything else is a waste of time. I want you to recheck the balance of your plane. This must be done at home where there is no air movement. All components, and especially the battery you are going to fly, need to be in the plane to check the balance. If you don't know how to check balance, tell me, but I am going to assume you know. This link may help you confirm you are doing it right.

Balancing
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=84

Make sure all components are in the proper place and well secured. If the battery or any other components can move around, they can move the CG of the plane enough to throw off the handling, especially in a turn, on climb or in a loop, etc. Stuff has to stay put. NOTHING is allowed to move! Balance it to dead center of the recommended point. Dead center. Not nose heavy, not tail heavy. Dead center! Good enough is NOT good enough. Get it right on that spot!!!

You might need to add tiny amounts of weight. Or you might remove weight by ripping a bit off a piece of foam you are using to hold something in place. Whatever you do, I want that plane balanced dead center of the recommended range. This is normally a very conservative spot and may actually be slightly nose heavy. It usually is, but that is the starting point we will use. Dead center! ( OK Ed, Dead Center! I get it! )

Surface trims

If you have flown the plane already, then I want you to look at where you set your trims on the radio. With the plane is the air, all trims on your radio should be centered. If they are not, then I want you to adjust your surfaces at the control rods before you fly again so that you can center all your trims. Remember this MUST be done with the battery connected and the radio on.

If you have three clicks of left rudder trimmed on your radio to get the plane to go straight, then measure how much the rudder moves when you move the trim to center. Now adjust it back at the control rods/lines so that it sits in that position with the trim centered. This will give you maximum trim capability in the air.

If you have not flown it, make sure all surfaces are aligned with the fixed parts with the trims centered. The plane and radio MUST be on to do this. Trim centered and all surfaces aligned.

Take your balanced and correctly trimmed plane to the field. Do a range check! If you don't know how to range check, look in your manual for your RTF plane or in your radio manual for all others. If you still don't know, tell me!

Check all surfaces and all components again to be sure all is well. Now get ready to launch.

I want you to pick as calm a day as you can find but at least on a day when the wind is under 5 mph and not gusty. For a slow stick or anything like a slow stick, under 3 mph please.

Put a freshly charged battery in the plane, preferably the one you used to balance it. Check for smooth motor operation. Make sure the prop is on tight and turning in the right direction.

If you are hand launching, launch it into the wind, at full throttle with a good solid level throw ( not up ) and get your plane out at least 50 feet before you touch any up elevator. Always hand launch into the wind and level.

Now fly it up slowly and get it to height, at least 100 feet ( say double tree height where I live) and preferably higher. Get it well up wind from you. At no time do I want the plane over your head or behind you. Keep it at least 50 feet in front of you, upwind. No stunts today. Do this by making gentle turns around the field till you get it high and flying into the wind and going reasonably straight.

Now, smoothly take the throttle back to HALF throttle. Be sure the plane is flying straight and level, and take your hands off the sticks and watch the plane. It should proceed fairly straight and either hold height or lose it in a graceful/gradual fashion. Unless this is a 3D aerobat, it should not be climbing!

Visualize it as a small boat on a river of water. It will bob up and down a little, and shift left and right as the air currents and waves float by, but it should continue to fly. Let it float on the river of air. It will bob left and right as the waves of air come past but it should not dive, or snap left or right into a roll. The wind may push it into a gradual turn, let it, but it should continue to fly with little or no input from you. Resist the temptation to correct it unless it is going out of control. Let it fly!

If this will not work, if the plane can not maintain flight without your constant input, your plane is out of trim. All your efforts to learn to fly it will be thwarted by this. You need to work on the balance and trim of the plane or it is going to behave badly.

Land it, adjust surfaces and do it again. See how she flies. This is your "gold standard" for making sure the plane is right. Spend at least a couple of hours on this. Looks good? OK, move the CG slightly forward and do it again. Better? Or does it tend to dive now? Move it back slightly. Better? Or does it tend to climb and stall?

You may get it right very quickly but be prepared to spend some time with this. I have spent 2-3 hours trimming till I was totally happy. Do it until the plane no longer needs your constant attention to fly. Your plane knows how to fly if you set it up right. It does not need you to fly it!

How are you doing? Is the plane flying on its own? Good!

Now! Do the same but turn the motor completely off. The plane should still fly in an unpowered glide. If it stalls immediately and starts to dive, power up and save it. You probably have too much up elevator trimmed into the tail. This will cause the plane to want to climb all the time. With the motor off, it can't climb, so it will stall and drop. The motor will mask this situation. That is why we are doing it in a glide now. You need to trim a little down into the elevator and try it again.

To what extent it will glide depends on the plane but the Easy Star, T-hawk, EZ400, the e-starter, slow sticks, Magpie, Aerobirds, and other light wing loaded planes should be able to still fly straight and lose altitude in a graceful manner. Even if you are flying a high wing loading plane, you should still be able to do this. After all, the 5, 10, 20, 40+ pound glow and gas planes can be landed "dead stick" with no motor. Boeing 767s can be landed with the motors off. Your small electric should glide very well and practically land itself!

Now that you have spent a day at the field trimming your plane, now that it can fly without you, now you can learn to fly your plane. Now it will behave as it should.

This exercise may not seem like the fun you had planned for the day, but it will teach you more about your plane, how it flies and how you can fly it than anything else you will do. Trying to learn to fly a poorly trimmed plane is frustrating and typically hard on plane and pilot alike!

When the plane is in a glide, you should still be able to exercise full control. The only thing you can't do is climb. The response may be sluggish as there is less air moving over the control surfaces, but you should still have control!

When I started to fly gliders I learned more about flying electrics because I learned not to depend on the motor to power me out of trouble and to overcome a poorly balanced and poorly trimmed plane. Also during this trimming process you will convince yourself that you do not need to constantly interfere with the plane and thus you will tend to overcontol it less and less. The plane "knows" how to fly. Let it fly!

This is what I am suggesting you do, for just a little while. Get that plane flying so well that you don't need the motor to fly it. Then, and only then, will you know that the problem is you and not a poorly trimmed, poorly balanced plane. At that point you can make progress and become master of the skies!

I hope you find this helpful.

Clear skies and safe flying!

OTHER RESOURCES

Forces in Flight
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/index4.htm

Stability
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/index5.htm

Stall and Spin
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/index6.htm



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Old 08-18-2008, 02:24 AM
  #42  
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Practice, Practice, Practice!
by Ed Anderson
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When you are learning, repetition is your best friend. And focusing on one,
or just a few skills in a procedure will help you master that procedure.
When you learned to play baseball, you had batting drills. Stand in the box
and take 100 pitches and try to hit them. Don't run! Don't do anything
but hit. Now let's work on catching. Play catch for hours. Great fun and
a huge confidence builder. So it is with flying. Practice till it is fun,
with no pressure and no nerves.

Launch and Land

Launch, or take-off, and landing are the hardest skills you need to learn.
If you can't master these, none of the others matter. I used to do launch
and land drills for hours. Some times I still do, especially if I have a
new plane. Here is how to break this process down.

If you are flying a glider or small electric in an open grass field this
works. If you fly from a runway, this doesn't work. - Launch, fly straight
out 100 feet, then power down and land. Take the long walk. No turns, no
loops, nothing fancy. Just get to know how the plane lands. Do it 5 times
or do it 50 times, but do it till you feel confident you can do this 3 part
drill right every time.

Launch, Circuit, Landing Pattern and Land - This works for runway or open
field

Launch, climb to 50 feet, make one circuit around the field and land.
This way you are working on your landing pattern and nothing else. Don't
climb high and don't focus on anything else. For this drill don't get above
50 feet. Just launch, go around and land.

If you are flying in an open field, land 50 feet in front of
yourself. Don't try to put it at your feet, not for this drill. In fact, if
you put the wind to your left, you can turn to the left to launch, fly the
circuit and land from your right. This is how it would be if you had a
runway. In this way you never fly directly toward yourself and you never
fly directly away from yourself.

If you have a runway and wheels, then do touch and gos. This also helps you
work on throttle control as you climb out at full power, then power back so
you don't climb too much, cruising speed for the circuit then power down for
landing. Know your plane and repeat the process over and over till it is
automatic.

OK, we have landing down pretty well. Maybe we have spent 2 sessions of two
hours each and all we did was launch and land. Hey, landing is no biggie
any more. You can do it your sleep.

Staying Upwind - Little or No Wind

If staying up wind is a problem, or if you tend to fly over your head, or
even worse, if you let the plane get behind you, focus on that. So, launch
and get at least 100 feet of altitude and do nothing but focus on keeping
that plane at least 100 feet up wind of you. Fly circles, fly square
patterns, whatever, but hold 100 feet in altitude, no more no less, and keep
it up wind.
After a couple of hours of this, it will be a non-issue.

If you pick one skill and focus on that and work it till you can do it
reliably, you take the complicated process of flying and break it down to
simpler parts and work on each part by itself. As you learn to keep the
plane in front of you in calm conditions, then try it in a bit more wind,
perhaps 5 mph, then 7 mph, then 9. Just launch, 100 feet, stay up wind, set
up landing pattern, and land.

What else

Flying Toward Yourself

Launch, climb to 150 feet and get the plane up wind from you a good
distance. You want to have the time to turn directly toward yourself and
hold altitude and turn well before the plane gets within 50 feet of you.
The plane should not get closer than 50 feet. Mark it on the ground for
reference.

Fly up and out, turn toward yourself and fly. Plan where you will turn,
then make the turn to your left, the plane's right, and do this in a
pattern, a circuit, over and over. Now do it to the plane's left, over and
over. Now alternate so you can project yourself into the plane. You are
the pilot the seat! If you wanted to go "that way" which way would you move
the stick, if you were sitting in the pilot's seat. Do it till it becomes
boring, then do it some more.

Then finish off with a circuit, staying up wind, align and land. So
easy!

Don't do loops! Don't do rolls!

If you master these, then I have one more for you. GLIDE!

How well does your plane glide? You need to know. If you have a motor
failure, if you run the battery down, if that glow engine stalls, you will
have to "dead stick" land the plane. This is called gliding. Get to know
how your plane glides!

Climb out to 150 feet+, get it as high as you are comfortable to fly. Now,
slowly power back. Fly a circuit at 1/2 throttle. Fly a circuit at 1/4
throttle. Now fly a circuit with the motor off and glide. Can you fly a
whole circuit with the motor off? How about half? One leg? 50 feet?
Practice till you can control the plane as it comes down from your peak
height to about 50 feet with the motor off the whole time.

How long can you stretch this? 10 seconds? 20 seconds? A full minute?
Longer? It all depends on your plane and your skills.

We have a climb and glide contest at our club. Climb for 2 minutes. Get it
as high as you like, but once you power off you can not reapply the throttle
or you are disqualified. Now you must glide for 4 minutes and land, exactly
on the 6 minute mark and land so you come to rest in a 3 foot circle. Can
you do it?

To fly this long power off, you probably have to find some thermal lift, but
that is not the point of the drill for today. The point is how long can you
glide and can you set up for landing and land successfully with no power at
all. Do this and you will never panic if you lose the motor. Its is just
that glide drill. I have done that 100 times. No biggie.

Master these skills and you can go play with loops and rolls and all kinds
of stuff.

Good job pilot!
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:30 AM
  #43  
jksecunda
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Thanks Ed, I will work on that.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:31 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Zoo View Post
YIPES!! Ya got yer work cut out for ya Ed.....
How did I do?
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:45 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
How did I do?
Looked pretty darn good to me
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:08 AM
  #46  
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Best advise I ever received and passed along..

- Thanks Ed!
Launch and Land

Launch, or take-off, and landing are the hardest skills you need to learn.
If you can't master these, none of the others matter. I used to do launch
and land drills for hours. Some times I still do, especially if I have a
new plane. Here is how to break this process down.

If you are flying a glider or small electric in an open grass field this
works. If you fly from a runway, this doesn't work. - Launch, fly straight
out 100 feet, then power down and land. Take the long walk. No turns, no
loops, nothing fancy. Just get to know how the plane lands. Do it 5 times
or do it 50 times, but do it till you feel confident you can do this 3 part
drill right every time.

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Old 08-18-2008, 04:09 AM
  #47  
Zoo
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I'm wowed!
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:59 AM
  #48  
Sabrehawk
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My gosh I go out flying all day and yu'ns posted up a storm dint'cha?

Hey Mike, on that windmeter I got well its not that inexpensive. I got it from Hobby Lobby, and uhhhh, well it's about 85 bucks.
These little devils are expensive, but I think I've seen a few at speedtech instruments that are reasonable. Hmmm lemmie see where that link is.

Uhhh well nevermind, heck speedtech's are just as expensive and they are starting out at 85 bucks. They are pricey little guys no doubt

Anyway, the one I have is at Hobby Lobby. Just look under "gadgets" and you'll see it, its the only one they have.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/gadgets.htm
But you could look at Speedtech's stuff too.
http://www.speedtech.com/prodtype.as...cordPosition=1

Pricey as they are they do provide good acurate info. The one HL sells though is the only one I've seen that makes accurate measurements no matter what direction the wind is coming from, where the Speedtech ones have to be held and faced directly into the wind to get accurate measurements.
Mine I have it on a mini-tripod and it just sets there and measures from any direction, no need to aim it just set it up and leave it. It can read in mph, kph, knts, m/s, and even has a beufort scale. Reads present speed, max speed, and average speed.

Hehe, heres mine as I am sitting in my Jeep watching it........ and waiting.
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Old 08-18-2008, 05:52 AM
  #49  
dk_aero
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
How did I do?
Great job! I've been lurking reading your threads since I joined... Thanks again Ed!

(we may need to chat about the throttle/elevator speed control thing someday tho'... )

BTW, has anyone here tried making their own anamometer?

http://www.instructables.com/id/Digi...er-wind-meter/
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:38 AM
  #50  
humboldt guy
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Kestrel makes excellent wind meters, I've been using the same one for 13 years, got it when I was into stunt kites, now using it for planes. Priced from inexpensive to expensive, lots of options, great customer support. Replacement impellers are cheap, I've only replaced mine once (that was probably due to my negligence, not wear). And they're made in the good ol' USA! Here ya go!
http://www.kestrelmeters.com/
Interesting and informative thread, BTW. Nice.
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