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Problem building Wing Dragon 4

Old 12-28-2006, 02:25 AM
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herk_1
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Default Problem building Wing Dragon 4

I've been putting together my new Wing Dragon 4 today. When I got to the point of attaching the clevis to the rudder horn, it seems as though the rudder control rod is too short. In order to try to get the rudder to be centered with power on (battery attached), transmitter on, and transmitter controls neutral, I have to screw the clevis all the way out, and it's still got some left rudder deflection. If I screw the clevis any further out, it will fall off. The attached photos are with battery connected, transmitter on and transmitter rudder control centered. I'm attaching a photo of the servos too (also with power on and controls centered). What can I do?
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:50 PM
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Mine was the exact same way, I removed the servo arm and turned it towards the tail, I lost some rudder travel, but it works. Also, those wheel fenders will have to go, they will lock up the wheels on every landing. Other than that, mine flew great stock.
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Old 12-29-2006, 08:28 PM
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Were the pushrods identical or was one slightly longer - perhaps you used the wrong pushrod for the rudder?
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Old 12-29-2006, 09:28 PM
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Tireshred- Thanks for the tip, but I gave up and called Hobby-Lobby; they will be sending me a replacement. Of course, if the replacement has the same problem, I may still need to use your method, I don't want to have to keep sending back airplanes. How did you remove the wheel fenders? Cut them off?

cbatters - The pushrods were preinstalled. I don't even know how to install a pushrod on a servo. If I bought a longer pushrod at the LHS, could I just cut it to an appropriate length at the nonthreaded end, and then bend it into that double kink at the servo end with a pair of needlenose? Or is it a type of cast metal or something that would break if bent that sharp?

I think the defect in my WD4 may be in the vertical stab. There is a notch at the base of the vertical stab where the front of the base zigzags down forward of the horizontal stab. On my plane, when the tail pieces are put together with the screws, that notch does not line up...so a bit of the base of the tail that is supposed to be overlapping onto the "boom" tube is sitting on top of the horizontal stab instead (see picture). Which makes the whole vertical stab sit aft of where it should be, and hence farther away from the servos. There is no way to move the vertical stab back forward where it should be, because the holes that the tailscrews go into are in a fixed position in the vertical stab -- a fixed WRONG position, and that seems to be where the defect lies.
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Old 12-29-2006, 09:41 PM
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My stab is the same way. Buying some wire at your LHS would work, just cut to length and do the Z bend to attach to the servo or use a Dubro connector.

I replaced the radio with an E-Sky 4 channel and it was a drop in replacement. Also, last night I installed a Skatty brushless motor (a pain), 15A ESC, 7x6 prop and 3S 1500mah lipo battery, bench tests show it being much stronger than stock, maybe too strong, I won't know until maybe Sunday, the wind is supposed to be 20-30mph until then. I was having trouble with the added weight of a camera and decided to up the power.
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Old 12-30-2006, 03:15 AM
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Pretty oibvious that the vertical stabilkizer is mounted too far aft. Why not unscrew it from the mount and move it forward 1/4". Would make it sit flush on the horizontal stabilizer and solve the pushrod length problem.

Alt plan is to buy a replacement pushrod and do the z bend as described above.



Clint
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Old 12-30-2006, 03:36 PM
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That black base piece on the vertical stab was also preinstalled. Just for the heck of it, I just tried taking off those two screws on it to see if the piece was held by glue in addition to the screws. It wasn't. I was able to slide the base piece off. The two screws go all the way thru the stab (two small pinhole-size holes). So I suppose it would have been possible to carefully pierce two new holes thru it, about 1/3rd inch farther back, and remount the base piece there (maybe even tapping the holes with the screws themselves?). As long as I didn't muck it up and tear up the stab piece in the process. I guess if stick with this hobby, I'll have to learn how do be creative and hack into this stuff like that sooner or later. But for a plane advertised as RTF, I shouldn't have to do that. At any rate, they're sending me a replacement. Thanks guys.
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Old 12-30-2006, 03:46 PM
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I ripped my vert stab off just above the screws in a crash a while back and just glued it back on with 5 minute epoxy, you really have to look to see it. The plane is tough, but fixable if you nose it in.

Update, we were in between storms this morning with no wind so I took it up. It'll take off in half the distance, touch and go's are much easier, even in a parking lot with trees and light poles, and it flew over 30 minutes! Here's a pic I took with it this morning. It's so much fun to fly that I can't wait to fly it again.
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Old 12-30-2006, 04:10 PM
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Cool! Did the reduced weight of the lipo battery allow for mounting that camera in front of the wing without c.g. problems? Speaking of which, have you got a good handle on exactly where the c.g. should be on the plane? It doesn't say in the manual and it isn't marked. Did you mount the brushless motor in the same place as the old motor, or put it outboard (behind) the pod (I saw someone on RCGroups did that, but I couldn't find the photo again)?
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Old 12-30-2006, 05:34 PM
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The reduced weight of the battery coupled with me mounting the motor behind the pod didn't change the CG too much, but it's just a guess, I forgot to check where it was stock before I did the mods , I have no idea where CG should be, but right now it's 3/8" behind the wing spar with the camera and 1/2" behind without it. I flew it both ways, no discernable differences. It flew great with no tendency to rise under full throttle and it wasn't twitchy at all, in fact it lands much nicer now with no throttle. Here's a pic of the motor, bear in mind I cartwheeled it while trying for a self AP and ripped the tail off and the prop took chunks out of the wing. But as I've said, it didn't hurt it's flying. I plan to clean up the motor mount now that I know it works well. By the way, I fly without the rudder when I'm APing, I use that channel for the shutter. It flies fine without it, but takeoffs are tougher.
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Old 12-31-2006, 12:42 AM
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I flew it again and again I'm impressed. It's a lot of fun to fly and trying to get that perfect AP shot makes it more interesting. It flies so long I have to land and take a breather. I was bringing it in between trees and doing touch and go's on the walking path, barely wider than the plane, it's so controllable it's not that hard. Another pic.
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Old 12-31-2006, 12:52 AM
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Herk... I have the same plane... if you look at your picture... your vert stab is way to far back... that is why you are having this problem..... oops I just read the part I missed... you did this... move the stab forward...

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Old 01-03-2007, 10:22 PM
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I've ordered the Point and Shoot Pure Digital Video camera for the WD4, with the power it has now it should be interesting.
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Tireshred View Post
The reduced weight of the battery coupled with me mounting the motor behind the pod didn't change the CG too much, but it's just a guess, I forgot to check where it was stock before I did the mods , I have no idea where CG should be, but right now it's 3/8" behind the wing spar with the camera and 1/2" behind without it. I flew it both ways, no discernable differences. It flew great with no tendency to rise under full throttle and it wasn't twitchy at all, in fact it lands much nicer now with no throttle. Here's a pic of the motor, bear in mind I cartwheeled it while trying for a self AP and ripped the tail off and the prop took chunks out of the wing. But as I've said, it didn't hurt it's flying. I plan to clean up the motor mount now that I know it works well. By the way, I fly without the rudder when I'm APing, I use that channel for the shutter. It flies fine without it, but takeoffs are tougher.
What brushless is that in your pic?
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:31 PM
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The Hobby Lobby Skatty 400XT, a real cheap motor I've shoved into more things than it fits.:p
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:34 PM
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Oh yea, I did clean up the motor area, I sanded the mounting block smooth with the body & painted it red. It looks better but flies the same.
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Tireshred View Post
The Hobby Lobby Skatty 400XT, a real cheap motor I've shoved into more things than it fits.:p
Really? I have this motor, its seemed to be to small for the WD4, does it work well? What ESC and Batt are you using? (I cant tell by your pic, but what prop are you running?)

Thanks for the heads up!
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:22 AM
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I replaced the radio with an E-Sky 4 channel and it was a drop in replacement. Also, I installed a Skatty brushless motor (a pain), 15A GWS ESC, 7x6 prop and use a 3S 1500mah lipo battery (I use both a Polyquest and an Electrifly), bench tests show it being much stronger than stock, it'll take off in half the distance and low flybys using power to pullout are much easier. I'm not saying it will out run an EDF, but it's better than stock and does what I need of it nicely. I'm terrible at estimating speed, but my guess is low to mid 30's.

No problem, I love the WD4, it was my first 4 channel.
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Old 01-05-2007, 12:57 AM
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Well I got my new WD4. Guess what? Same defect! Clint, I implemented your suggestion and remounted the vertical stab within it's base at a more forward position. The new plane also had another defect...a broken off wheel hub (within the spats). So I used the gear from the first one.

Hey Tireshred -- the battery compartment on this plane doesn't seem like it would hold in the battery securely if the plane is upside-down...looks like it would just slide out. Do you do anything extra to secure the battery?
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:02 AM
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Remove those fenders if that's what you're calling spats, they will move to one side and lock the wheels up on every landing and cause the plane to slide sideways hard and chew up the wing tips. Even if you have a great landing, the landing gear will bend enough that you'll most likely have to straighten it. I've straightened mine probably close to 100 times with no ill effects yet.

I use the bigger 1500mah 3S lipos and once the hatch is pushed down, they are snug. But if you're using the stock 8 cell nimh battery, it's loose and will come out if you fly inverted (it happened to me once). I just cut a wedge of packing foam and wedged it in there after that and it never came out again. I tried velcro but the body is too rounded and I could never get enough contact to hold down the battery, the wedge worked really well and didn't add any weight.

I got a quick AP flight in today in between rains, my video camera will be here next week and I can't wait to try that on the WD4. If you're thinking that every shot I've posted is in between rains, you're right, it's been a wet winter.
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:19 PM
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My first attempt at on board, I used a 5 into 1 EDVR camera. I tried something a bit different, instead of going high, I tried to stay low and strafe the field. The first attempt at landing was aborted, but the second was ok.

http://media.putfile.com/1st-on-boar...-Wind-Dragon-4

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Old 01-06-2007, 07:46 PM
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I love the pilot's point-of-view on that, especially during the aerobatics. It looks a little blurry thru most of it though -- was that drizzle/fog, or maybe the camera in near-focus, or vibration? Hope I can fly mine that well tomorrow (or whenever the weather permits).
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:50 PM
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It's foggy, the camera has a set focus, no adjusting. Most of the videos I've seen using the 5 into 1 are a bit blurry though, but at least it's not jumpy. I'm still waiting for the fog to clear, it's foggy and windy now, how is that possible? Good luck tomorrow if you get to fly.
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Old 01-07-2007, 04:32 PM
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I tried AP on my Stryker, I like the WD4 better for an AP platform, slower is better.

http://media.putfile.com/2nd-Stryker-on-board

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Old 01-07-2007, 05:00 PM
  #25  
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I maidened my Wing Dragon 4 successfully! My first aileron-bird flight, woohoo!

I went out literally at the crack of dawn to beat the wind...there was virtually no wind. At first I thought it was going to be "one of those days"...while I was trying to do ground checks, my son broke his Storm Launcher AND his Aero Ace. I did a 300-foot transmitter-range check with binoculars and transmitter antenna at half-mast (the stock transmitter-receiver were solid all morning, no glitching). Then I did some taxiing.

This plane has difficult ground-handling, and I don't think it's just the fenders (though I will take them off just to be sure) because the wheels turn freely. On my takeoff, I almost aborted because it was veeriing to the right so hard that it was scraping the wingtip. So I gave it a little more up elevator than I was comfortable with just to break ground.

The ailerons are very responsive/sensitive, but it's not overwhelming; I quickly got used to making tiny inputs, I think I'm going to like them that way when I start doing aerobatics (I didn't do any today). I've been practicing with aileron-equipped RC planes in RealFlight G3, and I used to fly full-size planes for a living, so being careful not to overbank and pulling the plane thru turns with a little elevator felt natural...it's cool to finally experience an RC plane that works like a real plane!

This plane is definately a little harder to fly than my Super Cub, because of the ground handling problems (I did buy a universal steerable tailwheel that I'm thinking of putting on it), and not having as much spare power (though it may not be to full broken-in power yet), and generally being a little less of a "self-recovering"/rock-solid stable plane than the Super Cub (if that makes any sense). I did approach/landing the same way I successfully worked it out with the Cub...kind of stairstep down to 10 or 15 feet, then chop the throttle and just jockey the elevator the rest of the way down. I had a bit of an audience by that time and got applause when I landed (big grin time! ).

Tireshred: the c.g. of my stock WD4 is right at the plywood wing-joiner, or maybe a sixteenth of an inch behind it (with everything installed -- battery, wing, etc.). So it sounds like yours is significantly aft of stock (if by Wing Spar you meant the plywood wing joiner).
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