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New Hobbyzone park flyer, Aerobird Swift

Old 02-26-2007, 05:19 PM
  #76  
cbatters
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Excellent. Does your 7 YO land the Swift or do you take the control to bring it down?


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Old 02-26-2007, 06:05 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Jettro View Post
Well, it all started with the Aero Ace. After a visit to the local hobby store we decided to get a foam bipe. Ultrifly Outrage. While we were getting it put together we got impatient and picked up the Swift.

Basically I let the kids play on the simulator whenever they want. Humbled, is the only word I can use to describe how quickly and easily they learned the dang sim. I remember when they first started playing with the sim they kept asking how many points they had.

Now, what I think the coolest thing about it was that I just handed them the controler for the sim. I didn't show them what controls or anything more then the spacebar resets they plane. Again, I was amazed at how quickly they picked it up. Right now they love to fly the Electristar and it quickly became thier favorite plane to fly.

Someone start a kids and sims thread I'd love to hear more stories of how good kids are at flying the sim.
It's pretty much the same with my son...he's just an Aero-Ace'er RC pilot at this point, but with just a pointer or two now and then, he's getting better and better with the RealFlight sim. He still has a ways to go before being able to land safely though.
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Old 02-27-2007, 04:37 PM
  #78  
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Right I'd have to agree with that. The kids aren't great at landing. My boy can land the swift in a large feild, but its a random landing. They are getting better at landing in the sim but I have to say they'd rather just hit the reset button 99% of the time.
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Old 03-04-2007, 10:39 PM
  #79  
navy atc
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Question Need advice on wing reinforcing the swift

Has anyone tried any wing reinforcing tricks w/the Swift yet?
I replaced my 1st set on maiden flight (wind causing lawn dart manuever, oh yeah and a wee bit of, ok, alot of new to aileron pilot error):o and have been fortunate/real lucky ever since, but I have to belly land in a rough field so I'm sure its just a matter of time before I'm gracing my LHS w/bankcard in hand & frown on face.

Im contemplating using a 1/8" wooden dowel secured w/packing tape. Not sure if
1. I should do this at all or, if it is a good idea where they would best be installed?
2. Bottom or top of wing?
3. leading edge vs trailing edge?
4. Where should I start and stop its run?
5. Better ideas than a wooden dowel?
With the 480 motor, weight isn't an issue but I am concerned about spoiling lift characteristics. Anyone have any input? Thanks

Last edited by navy atc; 03-04-2007 at 10:55 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 03-05-2007, 01:04 AM
  #80  
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Several thoughts:

1. Please post pics of original wings / damage. Good idea to practive repair / reinforce technoque on the old wings

2. Carbon fiber lighter / stronger than wood

3. Better to embed reinforcement inside wing

4. Consider using landing gear to protct fuse / wing. (I land all of my planes on rough fields with landing gear installed to protect the plane)



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Old 03-05-2007, 03:13 AM
  #81  
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Default wing reinforcement??is it worth the hassle??

Thanks for the response CBatters. The wings aren't broken.Yet. Nicked very very slightly from hard winterized grasses in the field, but I'd taken the precaution of using packing tape on the leading edges. This has very much minimized chunks being ripped away. I don't use the landing gear as it will invariably "flip" the plane a$$ over teakettle every time. Much like a carrier landing, I catch the hard grasses with the tail, which I did strengthen with plastic from a milk jug.(So there hobbyzone) I'm thinking of this proactive fix (strenghthening) in the event I end up coming in too fast, catching a crosswind and cartwheeling on the oh so flimsy wings,which is very easy to do with the Swift. So far, a well timed flare at landing has saved my butt. Murphy will catch up with me eventually though thus the plea for sound advice. Do you think it wise to "create" a groove into the wing and lay it in or is this overkill? Also, top or bottom? As far as position, I'm leaning towards about an inch aft of the leading edge.(forward of the plastic servo strip/cover) I'm even considering making a notch into the fuse and letting it run through both sides, up a groove and out the wing spar nearly to the tip. However, after seeing what happened to AEAJR's Swift(see his pics where carbon fiber boom ripped out the hole in his fuse) on his maiden flight, I'm not sure that's not inviting more trouble than its worth. Man I love this plane.I fly it nearly alongside I-85 and have noted people slowing down to watch it rip up the sky. (or maybe they know what a novice I am and are afraid of being hit. Oh-Oh better call Maaco:o ) I will upgrade eventually, but for now I want to keep it aloft for as long as possible
I've got a hundred thoughts , most of them probably bad , which is why I'm so grateful for your sage advice.
P.S. Wifey has the digital camera in her car so natch can't send pic yet
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Old 03-05-2007, 03:31 AM
  #82  
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You shold at least try the landing gear. I'll trade a flip over (harmeless) anyday for damage to fuse / wings from belly landing.

With a good flare just before touching down, I can stick 3 out of four landings with stock wheels. (Larger wheels should help with landings on rough field.)



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Old 03-05-2007, 03:53 AM
  #83  
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I did. Flipped faster'n a politician and broke the tailfeathers where they meet the v, which is where and why I came up with the milk jug solution.
I guess I'm not describing this field well enough. When I say grass I guess I should be saying "stalks of dried trees", well not quite that bad but darn close. Really, really tough stuff.(springtime should bring some respite) It's about as unbending/forgiving as my boss. It's not easy to find a "perfect" field in Atlanta, especially one 5 minutes from my house. With the phenomenal growth here in Atlanta, good fields are a rarity. Either there are "too many" trees to fly or someone has built yet another subdivision on what was once "A perfect field". (Farmland? What's farmland?) Thus, I've got to "Atlanta " proof my beloved Swift.
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Old 03-05-2007, 03:57 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by navy atc View Post
Has anyone tried any wing reinforcing tricks w/the Swift yet?
I replaced my 1st set on maiden flight (wind causing lawn dart manuever, oh yeah and a wee bit of, ok, alot of new to aileron pilot error):o and have been fortunate/real lucky ever since, but I have to belly land in a rough field so I'm sure its just a matter of time before I'm gracing my LHS w/bankcard in hand & frown on face.

Im contemplating using a 1/8" wooden dowel secured w/packing tape. Not sure if
1. I should do this at all or, if it is a good idea where they would best be installed?
2. Bottom or top of wing?
3. leading edge vs trailing edge?
4. Where should I start and stop its run?
5. Better ideas than a wooden dowel?
With the 480 motor, weight isn't an issue but I am concerned about spoiling lift characteristics. Anyone have any input? Thanks
When you add things to the leading edge, trailing edge or the top or bottom of the wing, you are changing the air foil. At that point you are the wind designer and can no longer claim you are flying the stock wing. Your mod may be good or it may be bad in its effect on the wing, but you are no longer flying the wing the MFG produced. I would not recommend it.

If you feel you need a little abrasion protection, then carefully wrap clear packing tape aroudn the leading or trailing edge, or you can even cover the whole wing with it. As long as you don't leave wrinkles, you will not be changing the airfoil enough to matter.

Finally, if you are new to ailerons, fly in calm air till you are used to the plane and how to manage it with ailerons. Starting in wind is just a bad now as it was when you first started.

I have 18 planes ranging from 30 inches to over 11 foot wing spans and thousands of flights, but I still wait for a fairly calm day to maiden a new plane.
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:24 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by navy atc View Post
I did. Flipped faster'n a politician and broke the tailfeathers where they meet the v, which is where and why I came up with the milk jug solution.
I guess I'm not describing this field well enough. When I say grass I guess I should be saying "stalks of dried trees", well not quite that bad but darn close. Really, really tough stuff.(springtime should bring some respite) It's about as unbending/forgiving as my boss. It's not easy to find a "perfect" field in Atlanta, especially one 5 minutes from my house. With the phenomenal growth here in Atlanta, good fields are a rarity. Either there are "too many" trees to fly or someone has built yet another subdivision on what was once "A perfect field". (Farmland? What's farmland?) Thus, I've got to "Atlanta " proof my beloved Swift.
Sounds like you need to learn how to hand catch it. You can, with a pusher. Just glide it in and catch the nose in your hand. The discus launched glider guys do it all the time.
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Old 03-05-2007, 03:03 PM
  #86  
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Default wing reinforcements

Thanks AEAJR. Now that sounds like the simplest of all. I may have to run a few yards.. Well ok, 20 or 30:o but I'll try that. I didn't occur to me cause the manual, which amazingly I read (dont tell the guys though) said not to do this. I'm sure due to liability issues.Thanks for the help I'll keep you posted. I ended up buying a new fuse for the electronics after the maiden debacle, needlessly as it turns out. I read the forum you moderate on the other site and found it had just reprogrammed itself and thought I had lipos installed. Why didnt Hobbyzone mention that in my owners manual(rhetorical).Now have 2 swifts to play with...By the way, how's your swift doin??

Ps. with the Swift you couldn't be more right.Wind + a little gust=
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:26 PM
  #87  
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To practice the hand catch, try this.

When you are alone at the field, practice gliding the plane while it is high. Get used to how it handles with not motor on.

Now run some drills where you glide the plane over your head by 6 feet with the motor off.

Then glide it past you at shoulder height about 6 feet out. Float it by as slowly as you can. Sort of like a touch and go at 6 feet.

Then bring it closer and closer. Manage the radio with one hand. Attach a neck strap if you can, that helps.

Do this till you can just float it into your hand.
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:06 PM
  #88  
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I must be landing slower because I have never sustained any damage from a nose over on landing on any of my planes.

Note: Might be worth adding a thin carbon fiber rod (.050" - .060') between the tips and optionally on the leading edges of the tail feathers. It only adds a couple grams and makes the tail more rigid and less susceptible to damage.

I did this on my Freedom a while ago and have not sustained any tail damage since despite a few rather harsh landings.



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Old 03-06-2007, 02:18 AM
  #89  
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Thanks. Since I have 2 swifts I'll practice the hand catch as AEAJR suggested on the newer one AND try the carbon fibre on the older model. When you say "tips" I'm a bit confused. Can you be more specific. i.e from fuse to tip/end of aileron to tip., Specifically how would you install this?
Bear with me as I'm only a rookie. Given your experience as opposed to mine I have no doubt you'd land slower than a shaky stick flyer like myself. Maybe one day I can post a great video of me flying an aircraft modified by the information I garnered from you guys. Thanks for the great advice.
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Old 03-06-2007, 02:51 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by navy atc View Post
Thanks. Since I have 2 swifts I'll practice the hand catch as AEAJR suggested on the newer one AND try the carbon fibre on the older model. When you say "tips" I'm a bit confused. Can you be more specific. i.e from fuse to tip/end of aileron to tip., Specifically how would you install this?
Bear with me as I'm only a rookie. Given your experience as opposed to mine I have no doubt you'd land slower than a shaky stick flyer like myself. Maybe one day I can post a great video of me flying an aircraft modified by the information I garnered from you guys. Thanks for the great advice.
IMHO, you should master landing on the ground before attemtping to snatch the plane out of the air. (Good chance you will get hurt and damage the plane attempting to catch it.)

GENTLE LANDING
Bring the plane in without power headed into the wind and when the plane gets within ~2 feet of the ground. begin gently pulling back on the stick to slow the aircraft and bring it in for a gentle touchdown.

REINFORCEMENT
A carbon fiber rod installed between the two tips of the TAIL will help reduce damage during a nose over / crash.




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Old 03-06-2007, 03:46 AM
  #91  
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Ok, I got ya now. I have overcome the tail issue with the milk jug plastic trick. The tail broke at the bottom where the tail meets the plastic brackets(topside of the vee.)when I pulled the full power lawn dart manuever on the maiden. Ergot, I inserted a piece of plastic cut from the jug on the topside of the v tail rising about a 1/2" above the bracket, then taped that to the tail wing & I've had no breakage issues. It is the main wing, specifically the weak point, outboard of the aileron and before the upward camber, Im trying to strengthen. Sorry I didn't articulate that more clearly. . Thanks. I'm working on the slower landings. I won't fly in winds greater than 5kts sustained, however pk's (peak gusts) of up to 12kts are not uncommon in my field. Catching one of these (pk's)will turn my swift up on edge. Me too for that matter. Thus the quest for more rigid reinforcement. I am interested in your carbon fibre fix on the tail as that sounds more practical/cooler than plastic from a milk jug. Do you have a pic of it?Thanks for your help!
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:22 AM
  #92  
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Default Repairs

Hello there everyone! I'm new to these forums and RC flight in general, so please forgive me for any stupid questions I may ask.

That said, I have a few questions about repairing the Swift. Today I went to my LHS and picked one up as my first plane. I had no trouble flying with ailerons, and was able to land it in what I guess could be described as a controlled crash. This was fine, since the foam nose cone protected the plane from damage.

I really like how the plane handles in the air. Very little aileron movement was required to bring it around in a nice smooth turn, and the very slight wind didn't seem to affect it at all. It climbed well, almost too well as I almost went too high for my comfort several times. Seems to have a lot of extra power, and I was flying it at maybe 1/2 throttle most of the time.

The problem was that on my last flight I tried to glide into a softer landing (I never put on the landing gear since I'm landing in grass) and misjudged the amount of space the plane would glide for. It flew right into a tree at low speed (<10mph), probably about 4 feet off the ground. The left wing is somewhat crumpled, and the small piece of plastic that holds the wing rod in place was destroyed. I'm probably just going to buy a new wing, since I don't trust my repair skills, but I'd rather not buy a new fuselage.

So here are my questions: How necessary is that little piece of plastic? And if I really do need it, what are some pointers for repairing it? I saw AEAJR's basswood repair job, but I was wondering if there's an easier way to do it?

I'll upload pics of the wing (so you can see how hard it hit) and the damaged bit of the fuselage.
Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-11-2007, 05:02 PM
  #93  
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Finally got to maiden the Swift. Not perfect conditions (6-8 MPH) but the sun was shining and the temp was 45 degrees so I figured it was time.

1. Smooth flying / gliding plane. Took it up to 200' quickly under full throttle and then powered back to 50% but it was still climbing. Cut throttle back a little more and added some down elevator trim to increase speed and maintain level flight.

MUCH better glider than the Freedom.

2. AET not much different than RET - just a bit quicker responding.

3. Surprised that with all control surfaces centered that it was constantly trying to bank left. I checked it agaion when it landed and evertthing appeared centered.

Any advantage to trimming for level flight with with the tail surfaces versus the adjustments on the ailerons?



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Old 03-11-2007, 05:44 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by cbatters View Post

Any advantage to trimming for level flight with with the tail surfaces versus the adjustments on the ailerons?
If you use the aileron adjustments to put both ailerons a little up or down, you're affecting the lift of the wing (effectively adding spoilers or flaps), not just the trim. So that would also affect the stall speed, the overall drag, etc. I would think that would be undesirable compared to adjusting the tail surfaces, which would just be like increasing/decreasing elevator, which affects the angle of attack of the wing not it's lift/drag.
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Old 03-11-2007, 06:16 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by herk_1 View Post
If you use the aileron adjustments to put both ailerons a little up or down, you're affecting the lift of the wing (effectively adding spoilers or flaps), not just the trim. So that would also affect the stall speed, the overall drag, etc. I would think that would be undesirable compared to adjusting the tail surfaces, which would just be like increasing/decreasing elevator, which affects the angle of attack of the wing not it's lift/drag.
You are going throught he same mental exercise I am....

If I trim it with aileron, I will move one up slightly and the other down slightly - so net lift shoud be similar.

Adjusting tail to trim plane is something we have gotten used to with RET but the affect is indirect.. Tail induces yaw which changes how much lift each wing is generating which in turn causes plane to bank.

I am leaning towards just adjusting ailerons to trim for level flight but am interested in other views. (I also tried making a small adjustment with the tail but it did not help - plane was still banking/turning to left.)



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Old 03-11-2007, 07:52 PM
  #96  
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Oh I thought you were just talking about pitch trim, since you said trimming for "level" flight, and you added nose-down trim inflight. Seems unquestionable that raising both ailerons as spoilers to effect pitch-down trim would be a bad thing to do, decreasing lift and adding drag and increasing stall speed, like flying around with a speed brake on all the time.

If the plane is turning/rolling inflight with neutral stick/trim, it might be tough to see whether it is due to net yaw or roll on the plane. When you activate left-right trim on the transmitter, does it move the ailerons or the elevons? I would guess ailerons?
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Old 03-11-2007, 08:34 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by herk_1 View Post
Oh I thought you were just talking about pitch trim, since you said trimming for "level" flight, and you added nose-down trim inflight. Seems unquestionable that raising both ailerons as spoilers to effect pitch-down trim would be a bad thing to do, decreasing lift and adding drag and increasing stall speed, like flying around with a speed brake on all the time.

If the plane is turning/rolling inflight with neutral stick/trim, it might be tough to see whether it is due to net yaw or roll on the plane. When you activate left-right trim on the transmitter, does it move the ailerons or the elevons? I would guess ailerons?
Problem is definitely banking/rolling, not pitch control.

you are correct about control. Swift utilizes 3 channel AET control - no rudder control. In spite of the v tail configuration, the tail control surfaces are ony used as elevators and move together. Both ruddervators are connected to the same servo but there are individual static adjustments on eash ruddervator.

Next time I fly the Swift I will adjust the ailerons using the trims until it flies level. I will then land the plane and adjust the ailerons to the same position with the trim centered. (I always like to adjust control linkages for neutral stick / electronic trim.)



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Old 03-13-2007, 11:20 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Sarco View Post
So here are my questions: How necessary is that little piece of plastic? And if I really do need it, what are some pointers for repairing it? I saw AEAJR's basswood repair job, but I was wondering if there's an easier way to do it?

I'll upload pics of the wing (so you can see how hard it hit) and the damaged bit of the fuselage.
Thanks in advance!
I wrote a tutorial on my fix you can find here: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16768

Its an easy mod, with no gluing required.
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Old 03-14-2007, 12:58 AM
  #99  
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Thanks TheAlpha! I don't know how I missed that when I wrote my first post. Looks like a good mod, so I'll be heading to my local hobby store sometime soon to pick up the materials.
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Old 03-14-2007, 01:39 AM
  #100  
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My wings were a little sloppy even through there was no damage to the fuse. I used clear packing tape around the root of the wing and now it is fits nice and snug into the fuse.

Plane is definately built lightweight for performance not durability.

Wondering out loud if you really need to repair the fuse or just snug up the wing in the slot in the fuse.



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