Hi-Performance and Sailplanes RC hotliners, electric pylon racers, F5B, F5D, sailplanes and gliders

Crow or Butterfly, function on a glider

Old 03-13-2012, 12:11 AM
  #1  
Wildflyer
Past President of PSSF
Thread Starter
 
Wildflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lacey WA, 1 mile E of Mushroom Corner
Posts: 2,195
Default Crow or Butterfly, function on a glider

I think I would like to set up crow or butterfly function, on a high performance electric glider. I believe they mean the same thing, please correct me if I am wrong. I am after good glide control, for spot landings.
Some questions have come up.

I have a JR 9303 on 2.4

My Plane is a Sky Sergio 09 from Soaring USA, it has a one piece flap across the flat center panel, it also has ailerons on both tip panels, 81" span. Total of 5 servos plus the ESC.

1, Will I gain control for landing or is crow intended to drop the plane out of a thermal, without building up too much speed?

2, About how much should the ailerons come up when the flap goes down ?

3, Should crow be available on all flight modes (other than launch)?

4, It would be possible to cut the single flap in the center, and have a true 6 servo plane.
I seem to find several programming guides for 6 servo planes.
Would I gain any thing by doing this? (yes I have the skill to do it)

5, Is there anything else I should know about type of control?

I will make experiments at about 2 mistakes high before I try them at 3 feet.
Wildflyer is offline  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:48 AM
  #2  
Old Fart
Lost at LAX
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,171
Default

My responses in RED. I have a Trinity F3F set up "full house" with the 9303

Originally Posted by Wildflyer View Post
I think I would like to set up crow or butterfly function, on a high performance electric glider. I believe they mean the same thing, please correct me if I am wrong. I am after good glide control, for spot landings.
Some questions have come up.

I have a JR 9303 on 2.4

Fantastic choice!

My Plane is a Sky Sergio 09 from Soaring USA, it has a one piece flap across the flat center panel, it also has ailerons on both tip panels, 81" span. Total of 5 servos plus the ESC.

1, Will I gain control for landing or is crow intended to drop the plane out of a thermal, without building up too much speed?

Yes, as far as acting like a "brake"

2, About how much should the ailerons come up when the flap goes down ?

You need to play with it. I'd suggest setting up different values in different Flight Modes. FWIW, my flaps go down about 80 degrees, the ailerons only go up about 10 mm. Don't forget elevator compensation.

3, Should crow be available on all flight modes (other than launch)?

Not until you find out what works

4, It would be possible to cut the single flap in the center, and have a true 6 servo plane.

True. You'd gain the possibility of AILE-FLAP coupling, don't know if I'd do it right off the bat though.

I seem to find several programming guides for 6 servo planes.
Would I gain any thing by doing this? (yes I have the skill to do it)

Look here: http://www.f3x.com/ under "how to" then "program a 9303". It's not perfect - he missed the value for the ailerons in BUTTERFLY.

5, Is there anything else I should know about type of control?

It's a lot of trial and error. If you have the PC Transfer program, I'd be happy to share the data file from my sailplane TX. I bookmarked about a half dozen articles on sailplane programming, watched Paul Naton's DVD's - then sat outside one evening with several beers and a big cigar and started playing with things.

I will make experiments at about 2 mistakes high before I try them at 3 feet.
Old Fart is offline  
Old 03-13-2012, 02:28 AM
  #3  
Wildflyer
Past President of PSSF
Thread Starter
 
Wildflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lacey WA, 1 mile E of Mushroom Corner
Posts: 2,195
Default

Thank you Jeff,

My flap will go down about 75-80 degrees so I will try for about 10mm up for the ailerons.

I had already found the guide on f3x.com.

No I don't have the PC transfer program, I bought it for my 8103's but it didn't work. So I haven't even tried for the 9303.

Happy landings.
Wildflyer is offline  
Old 03-13-2012, 04:20 AM
  #4  
Old Fart
Lost at LAX
 
Old Fart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,171
Default

No worries on the PC transfer program - shoot me your email in a PM, I'll print my settings and email them.
Old Fart is offline  
Old 03-17-2012, 04:14 AM
  #5  
mred
Super Contributor
 
mred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glenwood, GA
Posts: 1,025
Default

The way I set up crow is on a flight mode all it's own. I have never found a need to have it on all flight modes since it is used mostly for landing or just to bring it down fast if you want to. I also have the 9303 and there were a couple of things I didn't like about it, but I got by. I bought an SD-10G and couldn't be happier now, but that radio is still a good radio, I'm just fussy. Once you get the crow function working the way you want it, I think you will like it, but be careful the first few times you use it. It comes down pretty fast. Also, the ailerons are not very effective, so get ready to use the rudder when using crow.

Ed
mred is offline  
Old 03-17-2012, 08:35 AM
  #6  
Wildflyer
Past President of PSSF
Thread Starter
 
Wildflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lacey WA, 1 mile E of Mushroom Corner
Posts: 2,195
Default

Thanks for the responses, but like every thing, everyone has there own preferences.

I have heard of ailerons set up to for 10-80 degrees, so I will experiment carefully
Wildflyer is offline  
Old 03-28-2012, 01:26 PM
  #7  
mred
Super Contributor
 
mred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glenwood, GA
Posts: 1,025
Default

The lower deflections on the ailerons still allows them to be pretty effective as ailerons, but at the higher deflections they are almost worthless as ailerons. Just depends on what you expect and want out of them. Mine are set for around 30 degs up at full defection and that works great for me. My flaps are set for about 70 degs deflection and this is all I could get the way mine were set up, but they work great. Talk about coming down now. The reason I couldn't get more is because I also have them hooked up to ailerons in one flight mode and to get the deflection I wanted cut into my total down that I could get. That's OK, it still works great for me. This is on a full house 100" glider and except for the pilot not finding thermals, it flies great. I think you will like crow and that 9303 is a great radio for setting up just about anything you want. That is what I am using on mine and while it took me a little longer to program it and get everything working the way I wanted it, it does do it and works great.

Ed
mred is offline  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:03 PM
  #8  
noobab
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 5
Default

crow breaking is great for large gliders

land my spirt like a heli some days
noobab is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
AEAJR
Hi-Performance and Sailplanes
48
03-03-2018 06:18 AM
HugoW
Indoor & Micro Electric Planes
0
02-29-2012 04:25 PM
Nitro Blast
Hi-Performance and Sailplanes
1
09-09-2011 07:26 PM
norcalwelder
Foamies
27
06-30-2011 10:59 PM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Quick Reply: Crow or Butterfly, function on a glider


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.10363 seconds with 13 queries