The Official DonsRC Wicked EDF Motor Discussion Thread
05-19-2008, 06:05 AM
#176
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Yeah, Curtis kinda just went over that too. Actually on 3s in the EDF64, the Wicked 4800 does not run at 50,000 rpm though. 40,000 rpm on the 6 blader, and that's ideal test conditions. There are numerous people who have been able to keep these fans running without problems at this level, granted the rotor is balance properly, adapter dead on, etc, etc...
My other jet with the same setup is holding up fine. These Wicked motors with the larger shaft dia seem to be better suited to EDF. While balance is the most important factor, I'm also becoming convinced that the smoothness of motor operation and a motor with ample diameter shaft also play into the equation.
My other jet with the same setup is holding up fine. These Wicked motors with the larger shaft dia seem to be better suited to EDF. While balance is the most important factor, I'm also becoming convinced that the smoothness of motor operation and a motor with ample diameter shaft also play into the equation.
05-20-2008, 06:31 AM
#177
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I have run the GWS 64 up to about 350watts with no issues. But I think past that you are asking for trouble. The EDF 64 makes good thrust at that wattage, about 27 ounces. The only issue I have had was due to the fan injecting some dirt on a landing in my GWS F-15. It must have damaged one of the blades as my next flight the rotor shed a blade when I added throttle.
Don
Don
05-20-2008, 06:59 AM
#178
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There is a newer version of the edf64 out that is a tad better than the older ones. It comes stock on the F15.
One trick I saw that seems to work really well - Ive only tried it on the bench - is to cut a ring from Depron that fits inside the rotor and fills in the gap between the shaft adaptor and the outer dome of the rotor.
I dont have one out where I canget a good shot at it - but it stiffens up the rotor a LOT and it runs a lot smoother. Feels like it can handle more power. Ive only run mine up to about 325 watts though.
Larry
One trick I saw that seems to work really well - Ive only tried it on the bench - is to cut a ring from Depron that fits inside the rotor and fills in the gap between the shaft adaptor and the outer dome of the rotor.
I dont have one out where I canget a good shot at it - but it stiffens up the rotor a LOT and it runs a lot smoother. Feels like it can handle more power. Ive only run mine up to about 325 watts though.
Larry
05-20-2008, 07:11 AM
#179
Look out for that tree!!!
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You will want to take a few minutes to get the Depron disk to have a good fit then CA it in place and re-balance the rotor, but its worth it.
This is one of my rotors that failed on the bench due to out of balance badly, but you get the idea
Larry
This is one of my rotors that failed on the bench due to out of balance badly, but you get the idea
Larry
05-20-2008, 07:54 AM
#180
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Originally Posted by Dr Kiwi
I really think that if you are pushing that many 100's of watts through a fan, you should get nothing but a high quality, all carbon fiber shroud/fan.
Pieces of plastic being flung around at 50,000rpm are not something I'd care to be in the way of!
Pieces of plastic being flung around at 50,000rpm are not something I'd care to be in the way of!
05-20-2008, 06:36 PM
#181
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From enough good and bad experiences, I can say for sure that if you have a well balanced fan with a well machined adapter, the GWS will hold pretty high power levels. Getting good parts has a lot of luck involved with it too. Sometimes you just get that perfect GWS rotor/adapter which runs perfectly smooth.
While high quality stuff is nice, I reject the idea that everyone should fork up the loot and use only Schubler fans. There are far too many people who have had good results with GWS fans and appreciate the value.
I think an EPS 350-B gearbox shaft gear will fit in there perfectly. Can't remember for sure which gear, but it fit well.
While high quality stuff is nice, I reject the idea that everyone should fork up the loot and use only Schubler fans. There are far too many people who have had good results with GWS fans and appreciate the value.
Originally Posted by Larry3215
You will want to take a few minutes to get the Depron disk to have a good fit then CA it in place and re-balance the rotor, but its worth it.
This is one of my rotors that failed on the bench due to out of balance badly, but you get the idea
Larry
This is one of my rotors that failed on the bench due to out of balance badly, but you get the idea
Larry
05-22-2008, 05:53 PM
#183
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11
High current update
Following that estimated 825W 
smoking of my first wicked extreme motor I have been corresponding with Don about it off line to try and work out why. I have also carried out some further testing, using the HiModel 40 Amp ESC and the KMS 30 Amp 3S ESC (the stock one supplied with the Phase 3 fan) with a standfard wicked motor and got some interesting results. I know that the KMS ESC is capable of high revs because it is generally accepted that the stock set-up revs at about 45,000 on a 3S, but it is only rated for a 3S pack.
A range of checks were carried out using all my smaller packs and the watts/thrust readings were generally as expected – except with the Himodel ESC and the better packs which showed signs of stuttering and higher currents for no extra rpm (thrust).
Might be clear to many with more knowledge than me, but I'm now very confident, positive even, that I have found the answer to that first failure: in a nutshell, my motor failed because I exceeded the switching capability of the HiModel ESC by running a very high rpm motor at a high voltage.
It would appear that at the switching limit, increasing the voltage further obviously cannot increase the rpm (thrust) any more and this simply induces a very steep increase in the current through the ESC. From my results it appears that this occurs for the wicked motor and 40A HiModel ESC combo at a pack voltage of around 9.5v under load. Obviously (now) a good pack with decent voltage stability under load, or a 4 cell battery, will result in attempted high rpm and smoke! Anyway, last night I noticed that Don’s Pentium ESC are back in stock and so I ordered 2.
I would just like to add that I’m not criticising HiModel speed controllers in anyway. I have quite a few in various applications from a biplane park flyer to a WestWings EDF Hawk and they all perform faultlessly, never had a problem before. It was only because I had a Himodel 40 Amp controller available at the time that I used it in the first place. However, in trying to go that bit further with these very high kV motors I have discovered a new factor (for me) to consider which might serve as a heads-up to others when "pushing the envelope"
Pete
smoking of my first wicked extreme motor I have been corresponding with Don about it off line to try and work out why. I have also carried out some further testing, using the HiModel 40 Amp ESC and the KMS 30 Amp 3S ESC (the stock one supplied with the Phase 3 fan) with a standfard wicked motor and got some interesting results. I know that the KMS ESC is capable of high revs because it is generally accepted that the stock set-up revs at about 45,000 on a 3S, but it is only rated for a 3S pack. A range of checks were carried out using all my smaller packs and the watts/thrust readings were generally as expected – except with the Himodel ESC and the better packs which showed signs of stuttering and higher currents for no extra rpm (thrust).
Might be clear to many with more knowledge than me, but I'm now very confident, positive even, that I have found the answer to that first failure: in a nutshell, my motor failed because I exceeded the switching capability of the HiModel ESC by running a very high rpm motor at a high voltage.
It would appear that at the switching limit, increasing the voltage further obviously cannot increase the rpm (thrust) any more and this simply induces a very steep increase in the current through the ESC. From my results it appears that this occurs for the wicked motor and 40A HiModel ESC combo at a pack voltage of around 9.5v under load. Obviously (now) a good pack with decent voltage stability under load, or a 4 cell battery, will result in attempted high rpm and smoke! Anyway, last night I noticed that Don’s Pentium ESC are back in stock and so I ordered 2.
I would just like to add that I’m not criticising HiModel speed controllers in anyway. I have quite a few in various applications from a biplane park flyer to a WestWings EDF Hawk and they all perform faultlessly, never had a problem before. It was only because I had a Himodel 40 Amp controller available at the time that I used it in the first place. However, in trying to go that bit further with these very high kV motors I have discovered a new factor (for me) to consider which might serve as a heads-up to others when "pushing the envelope"
Pete
05-23-2008, 12:27 AM
#186
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by ChimneyGuy71
Don,
Just a thought.
Stryker with Wicked Extreme and 5.5x4.5 prop.
Any possibilities?
Just a thought.
Stryker with Wicked Extreme and 5.5x4.5 prop.
Any possibilities?
05-24-2008, 06:47 AM
#188
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Originally Posted by easytiger
Hey don...your email is not working...I'd like to order one of those ESCs...
05-24-2008, 06:49 AM
#189
Balsa Butcher
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Originally Posted by ChimneyGuy71
Don,
Just a thought.
Stryker with Wicked Extreme and 5.5x4.5 prop.
Any possibilities?
Just a thought.
Stryker with Wicked Extreme and 5.5x4.5 prop.
Any possibilities?
Don
05-26-2008, 10:55 PM
#190
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Originally Posted by The Don
I have run the GWS 64 up to about 350watts with no issues. But I think past that you are asking for trouble. The EDF 64 makes good thrust at that wattage, about 27 ounces. The only issue I have had was due to the fan injecting some dirt on a landing in my GWS F-15. It must have damaged one of the blades as my next flight the rotor shed a blade when I added throttle.
Don
Don
As for the fans, I think almost every case where they explode at under the 350W that you have had success with, is due to some issue. I don't just blame the fans like some do, as I'll admit that some of mine in the past have been less than perfectly setup. The failures just make you a more conscientious fan builder. In fact, I think the fan that exploded may have been one of my fan housing repair jobs.
If you really sand the entire repair area to rough the plastic and then use epoxy, you may do okay, but this particular housing was probably one that I had just CA glued in the past. Lesson learned: Just scrap it and get a new fan housing, and don't try to recycle junk from previous planes. None of those repair jobbie specials anymore for me.Bill
05-27-2008, 03:55 AM
#191
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 75
Don, what do you think about 2 cool winds on the e-flite F-15 fans? I believe they are 6-bladed fans like the e-flite airliner (and possible the same ones in the HL exec jet by SFM).
I am looking for a sporty power system for one using the stock fans. I havent run anything on that 6-blade fan ever, so I was wondering if you thought any of your motors would do well on it with 3s or 4s.
I am looking for a sporty power system for one using the stock fans. I havent run anything on that 6-blade fan ever, so I was wondering if you thought any of your motors would do well on it with 3s or 4s.
05-27-2008, 04:11 AM
#192
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They appear to be the SF fans, same as the Executive Jet. The testing I did on the SF fans with 6 blade rotor showed the same thrust as a 3 blade rotor, but needed more amps to do it! So I figured the 6 blade was a waste. That is why I went to 3 blade on my Exec Jet. So for 3S the Wicked 4800 is about 350 watts per fan on the 3 blade. For 4S the Wicked 4000 would be a bout 500 watts per fan (3 bladed). So I would say for about 700 watts go Wicked 4800 on 3 blade, for for about 1000 watts go Wicked 4000 on 4S. Don
05-27-2008, 04:22 AM
#193
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I would guess this would fly very similar to my clipped wing GWS F-15. I have a pair of Wicked 4800 in GWS EDF64 fans running two 3S2100 lipos. It is about 650 watts, here is some video of it, it is about 1:35 into the video. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3nFQiSJ8Eg[/media] Don
05-27-2008, 06:28 AM
#194
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Posts: 75
Hey Don,
Thanks for the info. That is interesting that your tests found the same thrust for 3-blades over 6! I am guessing the motor could only spin that fan at so much rpm, basically limiting the thrust on 6 blades.
My exec jet on wickeds run very nice and has lots of thrust. Its not a slow plane either. I may go with the 3 blade fans and your 4000s on 4s. I figured that would really be a good setup for this plane.
BTW your f-15 is nice!
Thanks for the info. That is interesting that your tests found the same thrust for 3-blades over 6! I am guessing the motor could only spin that fan at so much rpm, basically limiting the thrust on 6 blades.
My exec jet on wickeds run very nice and has lots of thrust. Its not a slow plane either. I may go with the 3 blade fans and your 4000s on 4s. I figured that would really be a good setup for this plane.
BTW your f-15 is nice!
05-27-2008, 07:04 AM
#195
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Originally Posted by hyperdynelabs
Hey Don,
Thanks for the info. That is interesting that your tests found the same thrust for 3-blades over 6! I am guessing the motor could only spin that fan at so much rpm, basically limiting the thrust on 6 blades.
My exec jet on wickeds run very nice and has lots of thrust. Its not a slow plane either. I may go with the 3 blade fans and your 4000s on 4s. I figured that would really be a good setup for this plane.
BTW your f-15 is nice!
Thanks for the info. That is interesting that your tests found the same thrust for 3-blades over 6! I am guessing the motor could only spin that fan at so much rpm, basically limiting the thrust on 6 blades.
My exec jet on wickeds run very nice and has lots of thrust. Its not a slow plane either. I may go with the 3 blade fans and your 4000s on 4s. I figured that would really be a good setup for this plane.
BTW your f-15 is nice!
05-27-2008, 07:39 AM
#196
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 75
Makes sense on the number of blades vs. rpm and thrust. I am guessing that is why e-flite is recommending 3800kv motors with those fans on 3s. Limit amp draw while still getting some decent thrust.
This might be too much, but do you think the 4800 on 3-blades SF fan could handle 4s?
I run 3s in the exec jet but I remember you saying some guys have gone to 4s on that fan in the exec jet. But that may have been with a 4000 motor. I need to measure thrust on that plane, as its pretty heavy also.
If I put retracts and all other servos in the plane, it is looking to be a tad over 3 lbs AUW. So my target power for 1:1 thrust-weight would be 27 oz of thrust per fan. That should be doable on 4s from my past experience, as long as the fans and motors can handle it. With 2 2200mah 4s batteries I wouldnt think it would be a huge issue as long as the extra battery weight doesnt mess up CG.
This might be too much, but do you think the 4800 on 3-blades SF fan could handle 4s?
I run 3s in the exec jet but I remember you saying some guys have gone to 4s on that fan in the exec jet. But that may have been with a 4000 motor. I need to measure thrust on that plane, as its pretty heavy also.
If I put retracts and all other servos in the plane, it is looking to be a tad over 3 lbs AUW. So my target power for 1:1 thrust-weight would be 27 oz of thrust per fan. That should be doable on 4s from my past experience, as long as the fans and motors can handle it. With 2 2200mah 4s batteries I wouldnt think it would be a huge issue as long as the extra battery weight doesnt mess up CG.
05-27-2008, 07:54 AM
#197
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Originally Posted by hyperdynelabs
This might be too much, but do you think the 4800 on 3-blades SF fan could handle 4s?
I run 3s in the exec jet but I remember you saying some guys have gone to 4s on that fan in the exec jet. But that may have been with a 4000 motor. I need to measure thrust on that plane, as its pretty heavy also.
If I put retracts and all other servos in the plane, it is looking to be a tad over 3 lbs AUW. So my target power for 1:1 thrust-weight would be 27 oz of thrust per fan. That should be doable on 4s from my past experience, as long as the fans and motors can handle it. With 2 2200mah 4s batteries I wouldnt think it would be a huge issue as long as the extra battery weight doesnt mess up CG.
I run 3s in the exec jet but I remember you saying some guys have gone to 4s on that fan in the exec jet. But that may have been with a 4000 motor. I need to measure thrust on that plane, as its pretty heavy also.
If I put retracts and all other servos in the plane, it is looking to be a tad over 3 lbs AUW. So my target power for 1:1 thrust-weight would be 27 oz of thrust per fan. That should be doable on 4s from my past experience, as long as the fans and motors can handle it. With 2 2200mah 4s batteries I wouldnt think it would be a huge issue as long as the extra battery weight doesnt mess up CG.
06-14-2008, 04:42 AM
#198
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I have some new video of my Electrifly L-39 on the Wicked motor and uploaded the video to YouTube
http://au.youtube.com/dslusarc
The 4S is the best setup I think. I ran the Wicked 4000 on 4S with the stock fan and it pulls about 480 watts and about 33 amps or so.
Don
http://au.youtube.com/dslusarc
The 4S is the best setup I think. I ran the Wicked 4000 on 4S with the stock fan and it pulls about 480 watts and about 33 amps or so.
Don
07-12-2008, 02:58 PM
#199
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I have been testing a new 70mm EDF fan unit. I have it installed in my Xflight A-7. I am using the Wicked 3000 outrunner motor from my Lynx. On 4S I get about 450-500 watts. More photos as I finish the build.
Don
Don
